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damiensmunki · 01:32 PM

Hey, guys!
I'm tired of waiting for Apple to announce a new graphics processor and am thinking about picking up the X1900 this afternoon. I know the new X1950 for PC supports HDCP, however, I can't find anything about HDCP and the X1900. Does anyone here know if this card will make my Mac Pro HDCP compliant? Thanks for any help!
Rob

Edit: Reading the consumer reviews on the Apple Store site, I'm seeing that many are having stability issues with this card. Have you guys had stability problems? I even read one review that said the card has no warranty outside the 90 day policy of the Apple Store. Is this so?

mduell · May 15, 2007, 02:21 PM

ATi overhyped the HDCP 'support' a bit and lead to a lot of confusion.

The short answer is no, the Mac X1900 does not and cannot support HDCP.

What do you need HDCP for?

SVass · May 15, 2007, 04:36 PM

AppleInsider | Next-gen Mac graphics hardware roundup describes new cards that may become available.

I have a new BenQ FP241WZ 1080p monitor with an HDMI port that possible requires HDCP support

The OP may have a similar need. sam

mduell · May 15, 2007, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by SVass

I have a new BenQ FP241WZ 1080p monitor with an HDMI port that possible requires HDCP support

But what application is requiring HDCP for DVI/HDMI output?
Surely the screen doesn't require HDCP to be active with HDMI input. That would be insane.

damiensmunki · May 15, 2007, 06:27 PM

I want HDCP compliance, so when I add a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive, I'll be able to watch movies on my computer. Will HDCP compliance be necessary when the Orwellian copy protection is implemented? Thanks for any help.
Rob

mduell · May 15, 2007, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by damiensmunki

I want HDCP compliance, so when I add a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive, I'll be able to watch movies on my computer. Will HDCP compliance be necessary when the Orwellian copy protection is implemented?

Yes and no.
Per the AACS (HDDVD/BluRay encryption spec), HDCP is only required if the ICT (Image Constraint Token) is set, which no disks currently have set. But from what I've seen, the software players (WinDVD/PowerDVD) are requiring HDCP even without the token set.

I'd wait until Apple releases some graphics cards that support HDCP (and maybe even HDMI too).

damiensmunki · May 16, 2007, 01:56 AM

Well... I bought the card today. I'm not going to open it for a while, in a last-ditch effort to out-wait Apple. Maybe they'll announce something in the next week or so. ...Doubtful. Anyhow... Besides HDCP compliance, what kind of performance boosts should new graphics cards usher in? Is the X1900 still a competent card, or is it beginning to struggle with new apps and games? I'm just so tired of the crap-ass performance of my stock card with Aperture and WoW. ::sigh:: Thanks for the help, everyone.
Rob

brokenjago · May 16, 2007, 02:37 AM

I've been having serious stability issues with my card.

damiensmunki · May 16, 2007, 02:50 AM

brokenjago,
How long have you owned the card? When did you begin experiencing stability issues, and what are your issues? Thanks!
Rob

mduell · May 16, 2007, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by damiensmunki

Is the X1900 still a competent card, or is it beginning to struggle with new apps and games?

X1900 is your best option, and you already own it, so does it really matter how far it is behind the current top of the line cards?

damiensmunki · May 16, 2007, 11:05 AM

mduell,
Do you mind shedding some light on why the X1900 is my best option? What made you change your suggestion of waiting for the new cards? Thanks, as always, for your help!
Rob

mduell · May 16, 2007, 12:29 PM

The X1900 will:
Give you better performance than the 7300GT you already have
Give you the best performance available today in the Mac Pro

The X1900 will not:
Support HDCP, ever
Rival the performance of the current top-of-the-line cards

I'm sure Apple will release a better card in the near future but it's impossible to say when. The 8800GTX (about twice as fast as the X1900XT) has been on the market for ~6 months now, but there's no way to know if/when Apple is going to release it or the HD2900XT.

macgeek2005 · May 16, 2007, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

The X1900 will:
Give you better performance than the 7300GT you already have
Give you the best performance available today in the Mac Pro

The X1900 will not:
Support HDCP, ever
Rival the performance of the current top-of-the-line cards

I'm sure Apple will release a better card in the near future but it's impossible to say when. The 8800GTX (about twice as fast as the X1900XT) has been on the market for ~6 months now, but there's no way to know if/when Apple is going to release it or the HD2900XT.

I don't get it. My X1900XT can still play any game I throw at it, with maxed out settings, at 1920x1200 resolution. How powerful do the cards need to be? What do I need a 2900XT HD for??

mduell · May 16, 2007, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

I don't get it. My X1900XT can still play any game I throw at it, with maxed out settings, at 1920x1200 resolution. How powerful do the cards need to be? What do I need a 2900XT HD for??

From the benchmarks I've seen the X1900XT only averages about 60fps at 19x12 in games like WoW and Quake 4, so the minimum (which is what players really care about) framerate is much lower than 60fps on the 30".
Also there are some Windows games that are more demanding on the GPU (Supreme Commander comes to mind) where the X1900XT can't even average 30fps at 16x12 with antialiasing.

bballe336 · May 16, 2007, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

I don't get it. My X1900XT can still play any game I throw at it, with maxed out settings, at 1920x1200 resolution. How powerful do the cards need to be? What do I need a 2900XT HD for??

The X1900XT is a joke nowadays. Putting a card that old and slow in a top of the line machine is laughable. It won't even get 30FPS in Fear at 1920x1200, in fact it will lag considerably. Where as the 8800gtx will easily exceed 80FPS in Fear when it's maxed out. Even cards that were out months before the X1900XT are considerably faster.

I understand that the mac pro isn't a gaming machine, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't have the best graphics cards available in it.

macgeek2005 · May 16, 2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by bballe336

The X1900XT is a joke nowadays. Putting a card that old and slow in a top of the line machine is laughable. It won't even get 30FPS in Fear at 1920x1200, in fact it will lag considerably. Where as the 8800gtx will easily exceed 80FPS in Fear when it's maxed out. Even cards that were out months before the X1900XT are considerably faster.

I understand that the mac pro isn't a gaming machine, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't have the best graphics cards available in it.

I think you're in a ridiculous brainwash. The X1900XT is still an extremely powerful card. The fact that I can play Call of Duty 2 with all settings maxed out, at 1920x1200, shows that it's not at all a joke.

bballe336 · May 16, 2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

I think you're in a ridiculous brainwash. The X1900XT is still an extremely powerful card. The fact that I can play Call of Duty 2 with all settings maxed out, at 1920x1200, shows that it's not at all a joke.

COD2 will play at maxed out settings at 1920x1200 on my 6800gt. I'm not in a brainwash at all. The X1900XT is dated and slow, it's been slower than the cards it competed against since the day it came out.

mduell · May 16, 2007, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

I think you're in a ridiculous brainwash. The X1900XT is still an extremely powerful card. The fact that I can play Call of Duty 2 with all settings maxed out, at 1920x1200, shows that it's not at all a joke.

Play... I note you never mention framerate... sure, you can play CoD2 on a GeForce 2MX at 0.1fps.
But really, why are you using an 18 month old game as your yardstick of good performance? What about today's and tomorrow's games?

macgeek2005 · May 16, 2007, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Play... I note you never mention framerate... sure, you can play CoD2 on a GeForce 2MX at 0.1fps.
But really, why are you using an 18 month old game as your yardstick of good performance? What about today's and tomorrow's games?

It can do those as well. I can play Oblivion, at 1920x1200, all settings maxed out, with a framerate never dropping below 30.

Oh, and as for the Call of Duty 2 framerate, it's always above 40. WHO NEEDS MORE THAN THIS????

bballe336 · May 16, 2007, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

It can do those as well. I can play Oblivion, at 1920x1200, all settings maxed out, with a framerate never dropping below 30.

Oh, and as for the Call of Duty 2 framerate, it's always above 40. WHO NEEDS MORE THAN THIS????

Those are pretty low frame rates. Anyone who actually games wouldn't put up with anything under 55-60fps. That's really the lowest you should be getting frame rate wise. If you average at 60fps there are times where you will dip down into the mid 40's in a laggy server. If you're only getting 40fps you'll be dipping a lot lower.

mduell · May 16, 2007, 07:50 PM

Wow, it plays 14 month old games too! You're not impressing anyone with your benchmarks.

X1900XT scores a whopping 15 fps average @ 19x12 in today's games like Supreme Commander. How's it going to fare with the games in a year or two from now? On a 30" display? Slideshow.

macgeek2005 · May 16, 2007, 08:05 PM

Wow, you guys are so brainwashed. Who benefits when you guys think that a card like the X1900XT is a SLOW card?? Who benefits? Do you benefit? Or do the card makers benefit?

Seriously guys, think about this.

Most people don't have much money. Most people have cards like the Radeon 9800 Pro or at best the Radeon X1600. The current iMacs have the X1600 as their card, and they play games great. Any casual gamer will love those computers. Now, the X1900XT, compared to ANY of those, is a god. The X1900XT goes more than twice as fast as the X1600, and isn't even comparable to the 9800 Pro!

You guys are looking at the X1900XT from the future. If you look at it from the past, it is still an extremely powerful card. You guys are so weird! I mean, just a year ago, you guys would've been saying "The X1900XT is awesome! I want it in a Mac Pro!". Well, guess what? Nothing's changed! The X1900XT has NOT GOTTEN SLOWER!! It is still the same card! While there are faster cards, the X1900XT has not gotten worse! It is still the god that it was just a year ago, and there are simply better gods now!

bballe336 · May 16, 2007, 08:18 PM

The X1900XT has NEVER been fast. It's been slow since the day it was released. It has been slow and it hasn't gotten any faster. The X1900XT was very dated when the mac pro was first released, I don't know of anyone who wanted it as an option in the mac pro when far faster cards were available in the pc market for the same price at the time.

The X1900XT was never a competitive, top level card, and it never will be.

macgeek2005 · May 16, 2007, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by bballe336

The X1900XT has NEVER been fast. It's been slow since the day it was released. It has been slow and it hasn't gotten any faster. The X1900XT was very dated when the mac pro was first released, I don't know of anyone who wanted it as an option in the mac pro when far faster cards were available in the pc market for the same price at the time.

The X1900XT was never a competitive, top level card, and it never will be.

So you're telling me that the X1900XT is "hands down", "absolutely", NOT a fast card?

mduell · May 16, 2007, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

You guys are looking at the X1900XT from the future. If you look at it from the past, it is still an extremely powerful card. You guys are so weird! I mean, just a year ago, you guys would've been saying "The X1900XT is awesome! I want it in a Mac Pro!". Well, guess what? Nothing's changed! The X1900XT has NOT GOTTEN SLOWER!! It is still the same card! While there are faster cards, the X1900XT has not gotten worse! It is still the god that it was just a year ago, and there are simply better gods now!

The X1900XT was fine for the games that were released around the time it was released. If you're never going to buy a new game, it's a fine card.
Games have moved on. Graphics cards have moved on.

9800Pro was fast when it was released, but you're not about to argue that it's fast now. Same for X1900.

MaxPower · May 16, 2007, 11:54 PM

"Nobody will ever need more than 640kB RAM." Bill Gates, 1983

Talk about brainwashing indeed! Take off your Apple fanboy hat for just one sec and look at the PC world. Look at games like Crysis soon to be released. There are outstanding games which will never, ever come to the Mac.

Why? Because we are 1+ years behind the PC world as far as video technology.

damiensmunki · May 17, 2007, 01:31 AM

Wow... This is all making me feel fairly stupid for buying the X1900. I'm not a huge gamer (most FPS make me motion-sick...don't laugh), but I don't want to make an unintelligent investment. I try to take solace in the fact that the X1900 was powerful a year ago, but the argument that its past dictates the card's current viability is a bad and fairly indefensible stance. Games outgrow GPU's, which spurs on GPU development. We were effective at social development as chimps, but as societies grew more complex, we had to evolve out of our chimp evolutionary stages. I don't want a chimp GPU...at least not for a $400 ticket.