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Mac mini discontinued
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May 25, 2007, 03:38 AM
 
A recent article of appleinsider reports exactly this.

I wonder if there are many who are sorry for its demise, like for the cube's. Like many I have once toyed with the thought of buying one, but it wasn't just enough computer. And then the integrated graphics... brrr.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._mac_mini.html
     
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May 25, 2007, 03:55 AM
 
I just don't know what to think about Apple at this moment in time. I want a new machine, which would be my first Intel machine for home. At the studio where I work, they can afford all the MacPros they want. I don't need that kind of power and don't want to invest three grand into a machine for checking email and storing my snapshots. I already have a pair of Dell UltraSharp 20's, so the iMac doesn't really fit the bill either. The rumored new design might be cool enough to make me pull the trigger and sell my displays, but no iMac yet has been worth the tradeoff of having NO inputs to make use of the display. I thought the new mini would be great, especially with the newest chipsets and even with integrated graphics, it would work for what I need. Why is there no really compelling Apple hardware in the price range of mere mortals? Come on Steve, blow us all away with the new iMacs.

I'm so farking tired of hearing about the iPhone. The $599 is almost reasonable for such a complete piece of hardware, but can you imagine what the monthly cost would be for a cellular plan that would 'feed' a phone like that? I just don't see the point. My (very cheapest) Cingular plan, which I cancelled as soon as I could, was $43 a month. I can see the iPhone service plans at about twice that, with all the data charges built in. That would add up very quickly.

In conclusion, why is there so much sub-$1000 hardware running Windows on Intel Core 2's, yet we have to live with the take-it-or-leave-it iMac?
     
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May 25, 2007, 06:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by MichiganRich View Post
In conclusion, why is there so much sub-$1000 hardware running Windows on Intel Core 2's, yet we have to live with the take-it-or-leave-it iMac?
I think that's exactly the reason. In the past Apple tried to stay out of the market segment with the fiercest competition: simple headless desktop PCs. C2Ds with several disk bays and PCIe slots for $1k - could Apple drive home a 25% margin on such a box and still be competitive? Obviously Apple believes there's not enough money to be made there. I disagree with that notion, but I'm pretty certain that's their reasoning.
     
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May 25, 2007, 08:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by MichiganRich View Post
I'm so farking tired of hearing about the iPhone.
Then why did you bring it up? It's totally irrelevant to the thread.

Personally, I would be very sad to see the mini go (assuming there is no equivalent replacement) as it is the ideal machine for Mac users who can't afford Mac prices. Also, who cares if they don't make any or much money from them - they're loss leader introductory machines to OS X.
     
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May 25, 2007, 09:04 AM
 
Why would Apple discontinue the Mini when they just redesigned the AirPort Base Station to fit it perfectly? I'm not convinced that the Mini is going away, and let's face it, Apple Insider is not always anywhere near right on these things.

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May 25, 2007, 11:14 AM
 
The Airport extreme naturally also fits all those accessories designed for the Mini- like the LaCie external HD and USB hub. Kind of handy considering that the Extreme also lets you add disks and USB printers

I think this could be good news - if the rumours are correct, the mini and the 17: iMac are on the way out, which to me says that Apple has another product aimed squarely at that market segment. Hopefully this is a low-end desktop power for those of us who have outgrown the Mini but can't justify a Mac Pro.
     
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May 25, 2007, 11:24 AM
 
I'll believe this when I see it.
     
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May 25, 2007, 01:38 PM
 
The mini is defninitely a tad under powered for those "in the know," but it's also a great baseline Mac for folks like me who would love to get one for their moms and grandmas.

I hope AI is totally wrong on this one.
     
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May 25, 2007, 02:39 PM
 
JKT- Good point, I mentioned the iPhone because it seems that Apple has currently devoted so many of their resources to that one item. The length of time since anything interesting happened in iMacs, minis, displays, Pros, iPods, well, everything.. kinda shows that. Not to mention the 10.5 delay that was directly attributable to it.

Shinykaro hit it right on the head, even if a mini was never meant for me, it is the only thing that competes in the mom and grandma segment. It's difficult enough to convince that segment to switch to Apple, even though they would be the first to benefit from the ease of use and stability. My family is a perfect example of it. Grandma's fancy HP laptop has been nothing but Windows problems, but mom's hand-me-down Mac has been ZERO problems. Neither of them thinks that computers should cost over $1000, because that's what they see in the weekend ads! When it comes time to upgrade (which is way past due for mom) they always shop with the knowledge of what they could get at Staples or BestBuy or Dell for the same dollars, and that value equation needs some reinforcement on the Apple side.
     
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May 25, 2007, 02:48 PM
 
Apple insider doesn't know what they are talking about...
     
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May 25, 2007, 04:38 PM
 
Just when I'd decided to get a mini- (next month after I pay my property taxes) I have to hear this. I hope it's not true. I already got a nice flat-screen monitor. I was willing to pay a bit of a premium, as the mini is maybe a tad over-priced, but if true, I'll just go for a Dell. This will be a real shame. Problem is that I could still buy one, but then there's no future upgrades, expansion, etc. Just like the IIe I started with, then the Newton 110, etc. Never (Apple) again then. Tell me it ain't so.......
     
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May 25, 2007, 07:14 PM
 
I think it would be a bad business choice if Apple did away with the Mini. Many PC users complain about Mac prices and let's face it many of the "average" user just surf the internet, check their emails, use word processors, and possibly watch DVD movies on their computers. It doesn't take the fastest computer to do these things. My Dad would fall under this category and a Mini would be all he would need. Also many people already have monitors so forcing people to buy a built in monitor like the iMac just adds to the expense for something they don't need.

Even if Apple doesn't make a lot of money from the Mini, it's important because it gets new comers to switch over from PC. If they like their Mini then they would be more willing to spend the money on pricier Macs. Although it's usually us power users that need the faster comptuers so something permanently in the low end would be good. Computers are a huge investment just to try them out to see if you like them so a cheap version so they can try out will help get more people to switch from PC. That's why having Macs at schools are such a wonderful way for the young generations to try out Macs for free and hopefully they will like them enough to buy one in the future.
     
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May 25, 2007, 08:03 PM
 
I guess Apple hates the fact that someone could possibly get one of their computers for under $2500 and still use an external display.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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May 25, 2007, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner
A recent article of appleinsider reports exactly this.

I wonder if there are many who are sorry for its demise, like for the cube's. Like many I have once toyed with the thought of buying one, but it wasn't just enough computer. And then the integrated graphics... brrr.
Originally Posted by danangdoc View Post
Just when I'd decided to get a mini- (next month after I pay my property taxes) I have to hear this. I hope it's not true. I already got a nice flat-screen monitor. I was willing to pay a bit of a premium, as the mini is maybe a tad over-priced, but if true, I'll just go for a Dell. This will be a real shame. Problem is that I could still buy one, but then there's no future upgrades, expansion, etc. Just like the IIe I started with, then the Newton 110, etc. Never (Apple) again then. Tell me it ain't so.......
Dudes, this is a RUMOR, Apple never tells anyone what they plan to do next. AppleInsider is not like The Insider on ABC, ok? They don't actually go inside Apple to get stories straight from Steve.
( Last edited by C.A.T.S. CEO; May 26, 2007 at 01:52 AM. )
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May 26, 2007, 02:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
I guess Apple hates the fact that someone could possibly get one of their computers for under $2500 and still use an external display.
Then why on earth did they introduce the dang Mac mini?

Apple's hardware lineup is really hard to understand. It's like they purposely make it hard for WinPC users to switch. The Mac Pro towers and Pro notebooks are too expensive and the "consumer" desktops and notebooks are too limited or too small. If you want anything in the middle, you're out of luck. Oh, unless you want a freaking iMac!!!
     
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May 26, 2007, 04:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO View Post
this is a RUMOR, Apple never tells anyone what they plan to do next.
Apple pretends to be angry about the mac rumor sites, but many other companies would sell their souls (if they had one) to have this kind of free mouth-to-mouth propaganda.

C.A.T.S. is right: it's a rumor. And we don't know where it started. At apple, because they wanted to test the market for reactions to such a rumor - and then come up with a super-mini...

... apple wants to create news to quicker sell off their stock piles...

...or it is a leak-based rumor (I mean a news leak), and it had no true connection with apple and actually against their will - or tolerated by them.
     
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May 26, 2007, 11:41 AM
 
How many rumors about new Macs come out every day? I can't count them. Most Mac rumors are either exaggerations or so totally baseless that it looks like a few people got together over a BUNCH of beer and came up with "this would like totally fubar the whole Mac world-let's put it online!" If the current Mini's days are short, it's likely because a new one is on its way. The platform is just too useful, it addresses a lot of complaints people have about Apple being elitist, and Apple has apparently decided that this form factor is a good thing to have around.

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May 26, 2007, 12:53 PM
 
The "demise of the mini" rumor is only believable because it's so unbelievable that the miini hasn't been upgraded all year. Rumors have a way of being very vague, and this one started by AppleInsider has no specifics as to when the mini will come to an end. Specifics are also lacking as to whether there is a replacement in the works. It's hard to imagine the only "sub-$1000 Mac" from now on would be the iPhone.

I have an eery feeling the rumor is true and the mini will go, but I also feel there will be something else even better to replace it (and it won't be aTV).
     
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May 26, 2007, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
Apple pretends to be angry about the mac rumor sites...
When was Apple angry (fake anger or not) at rumor sites? Apple doesn't care about rumor sites, just their products.
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May 26, 2007, 03:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO View Post
When was Apple angry (fake anger or not) at rumor sites? Apple doesn't care about rumor sites, just their products.
They care about the ones that give away their secrets.
     
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May 26, 2007, 06:24 PM
 
Why was the Mac Mini built by Apple?
As a low cost solution to people who wanted to switch to the Mac but did not
have a whole lot of cash. You bring your own display, keyboard, and mouse.
Who is the target market?
As oppossed to what some people on here suggest the Mac Mini was not only built for
Mom's and Grandma's. There are college students, families, people who wanted an
additional Mac for their children, and so on. If you are a professional and need that extra power
to render video files or process filters in Photoshop than the Mac Mini is not for you. If you are a gamer
than the Mac Mini is not for you. But I would reccommend the Mac Mini to graphic designers, illustrators, photographers, and many more people who are starting out and need something simple to do their freelance work with.
The iPhone vs. the Mac Mini:
iPhone is a specialized device just like the iPod and it is not to be confused with a Mac Mini computer. There are so many things I can do on my Mac Mini that will put the iPhone to shame. Price comparisons are just silly.
     
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May 26, 2007, 09:40 PM
 
I'm hoping that the rumors are false about the mini being discontinued. Apple definitely needs more people to buy Macs instead of the few dedicated users like us. I can't wait for the day when Macs are a lot cheaper than they are now. I think everyone would agree that we would rather pay $1500 for a high end Mac rather than the current $2500. That's really the only thing I miss from the PC world.
     
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May 26, 2007, 09:40 PM
 
I agree that the Mini's market isn't just parents & grandparents. It's a sweet little system for anyone in need of the basics. So I agree that if it's dead as we know it, it'll eventually be replaced/revamped.
     
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May 27, 2007, 12:14 AM
 
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May 27, 2007, 12:27 AM
 
My first mac was a G4 Mini, and while it is a bit underpowered I still love it. Apple would be foolish to cancel it unless they replace it with a new model at similar price points and better capabilities. Matter of fact, they should find a way to get back to that $499 price point while they are at it. It would be nice to have easier upgrades, but price and functionality are the key factors. After that, design and upgradability.

Someone described it as a "loss leader" -- no offense, but I do not think that Apple loses any money on these puppies! And no, I can't back that up with any numbers. The only way to preceive the Mini as a loss leader would be if you assumed that every Mini sold meant one less iMac or Macbook sold, which surely isn't the case.

Andy
     
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May 27, 2007, 06:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by andyr2120 View Post
Someone described it as a "loss leader" -- no offense, but I do not think that Apple loses any money on these puppies!
You're absolutely right. Apple isn't losing a single dollar on any mini sale. But they aren't likely making the huge profits they make on an iMac. When the CD iMac came out iSuppli estimated the total cost of the 1.83 GHz iMac (w/o accessories in the box) was $898. That model sold for $1299. So you're looking at ~40% profit right there.

It seems to me as if Steve had this snobby attitude of not catering to markets where he can't make at least 15% profit on every sale.
     
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May 27, 2007, 08:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by andyr2120 View Post
The only way to preceive the Mini as a loss leader would be if you assumed that every Mini sold meant one less iMac or Macbook sold, which surely isn't the case.
My point was that if Apple perceives the mini as not making them enough money they shouldn't care - it performs the same role as a loss leader does by introducing people to Apple Macs who would otherwise not experience OS X. Their subsequent Apple purchase is also unlikely to be another mini and instead a higher profit generating iMac or more. In other words, Apple shouldn't be thinking "we don't sell enough of these minis," they should instead be thinking "we wouldn't have sold as many MacBooks/iMacs if we didn't sell all those minis."
     
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May 27, 2007, 10:14 AM
 
I HOPE this rumor is BS, My 2 year old PPC MIni has been a workhorse and runs 24/7. I LOVE the Mini. It's my main PC. KEEP THE MINI APPLE!

Tom
     
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May 27, 2007, 10:15 AM
 
The mini might go, but only if it's replaced by something else. Like the iPod mini, there may be something even better in the wings to replace it.

Apple makes products targeted at specific markets - in the case of the Mac mini, that market is people who want to try out the Mac. This is not speculation, btw, they said it at a shareholders conference at some point. Apple will only drop an entire segment when the product they have it in is not selling at all - the Cube is the only real recent example. If it's selling but not making a profit, they will increase the price until it does. If that drops sales, then it might get canned, but not while it is selling.

The Mac mini made more sense with a G4 in it. Lower-clocked G4s were decently cheap back then, so it made sense to use them no matter how much heat they produced. Since they were cool, the machine was designed to make use of that. After the Intel switch, cool CPUs come at a price premium. To get a cheap CPU, you should look at the Allendale (E4x00) Core 2s, and their TDP is higher than the Core Duos currently in use. This is not likely to change in the future, btw. The 2.5" HD also commands a premium over 3.5" drives. A redesign to a case that can fit a 3.5" HD and the cooling for a Desktop CPU could let Apple drop the price back down to $499 or even less without lower performance - for instance. I could also see a cheaper laptop in that niche - if Dell can make a dualcore laptop with a 15.4" screen at $599, then so can Apple - particularly if they drop the screen down to 12" or so.

What about the HTPC market, then? The Mac mini was never meant as an HTPC. It became one, but that was incidental - and in any case the AppleTV now fills that niche. You still want a real HTPC? Sorry, not Apple's target audience. You can use the new Mac mini-replacement if you wish, or a used mini, but the segment is not large enough for Apple to make a dedicated product for you.
     
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May 27, 2007, 12:13 PM
 
Yea, rebuilding it bigger (perhaps cube sized) would really cut down on price... cheaper hard drives, cheaper optical drives, cheaper RAM, cheaper CPUs, etc.

Current $599 mini
1.66 Ghz CD: $215
2x256MB SODIMM: $40 (guess, I can't even find modules this small)
60GB 2.5": $50
Slim ComboDrive: $42
Total: $347

Bigger mini
1.86 Ghz C2D: $166
2x512MB DIMM: $35
80GB 3.5": $40
SuperDrive: $28
Total: $269
With improvements in every component.

I assume there would also be some savings going from 945GM to G965/Q963, but I can't find prices for either of them.
( Last edited by mduell; May 27, 2007 at 12:28 PM. )
     
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May 27, 2007, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO View Post
When was Apple angry (fake anger or not) at rumor sites? Apple doesn't care about rumor sites, just their products.
Then what was this?
     
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May 27, 2007, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Yea, rebuilding it bigger (perhaps cube sized) would really cut down on price... ... cheaper RAM...
The Mini uses desktop RAM. Yeah, I know. It really floored me when I found out but it does. What a bigger form factor (taller, of course, not wider or deeper) would do in terms of RAM is provide room for more slots, or at least easier access (a separate door, or a space you could get at without completely disassembling it). But yes, a cube-shaped Mini with the same footprint would otherwise be much less expensive to make, and would offer room for a lot of other cool features.

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May 27, 2007, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
But yes, a cube-shaped Mini with the same footprint would otherwise be much less expensive to make, and would offer room for a lot of other cool features.
Heh, the Cube was a briliant concept and design. It is a pity that Apple knifed his own baby just because of errors in pricing and market targeting. Fortunately, and to be more precise, Apple did not exactly knifed it but it put it on ice. It is still there.
     
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May 27, 2007, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
The Mini uses desktop RAM. Yeah, I know. It really floored me when I found out but it does.
You sure about that? According to a couple of RAM vendors I looked at, the mini uses the same 200 pin DIMMS as the MacBook. I checked because I've been planing to sell my MacBook and put the extra RAM I take out of it into a new mini.
     
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May 27, 2007, 01:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
The Mini uses desktop RAM.
The G4 minis supported 1 DIMM, but the Intel minis support 2 SO-DIMMs. I don't think the mobile Intel chipsets even support full size DIMMs (different number of pins than SO-DIMMs).
     
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May 27, 2007, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
The Mini uses desktop RAM. Yeah, I know. It really floored me when I found out but it does. What a bigger form factor (taller, of course, not wider or deeper) would do in terms of RAM is provide room for more slots, or at least easier access (a separate door, or a space you could get at without completely disassembling it).
The mini uses SO-DIMMs.



So DIMM slots would require less height, but more length. Unfortunately when you open the current mini you'll see that while there's plenty of height, there's not enough length. That is somewhat a moot point though, since Apple would have to switch to a desktop (Broadwater, Glenwood) chipset and Allendale/Conroe for that to happen. And those in turn would require even more space and generate more heat.

That said, I'm convinced choosing a 3.5" HDD and a 12.5 mm optical alone wouldn't require a substantially larger case. And both would of course make the mini cheaper to produce. I seriously doubt though that Apple would launch a new mini that's any larger than the current model. I think their way of marketing the mini just goes too much against that.
( Last edited by Simon; May 27, 2007 at 02:54 PM. )
     
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May 27, 2007, 03:41 PM
 
I think that a mini with a faster HD and processor would be possibly be recieved as the headless iMac that many people want.
     
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May 27, 2007, 05:51 PM
 
Apple just needs to make it taller and add a x16 slot.
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May 27, 2007, 06:24 PM
 
Make it taller and we can call it the Mac Slim or Mac Nano.
     
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May 28, 2007, 06:23 AM
 
The cost difference between a regular DIMM and a SO-DIMM is small enough for Apple. It may be bigger to YOU, but then you don't buy RAM in the batches that Apple does. I can find motherboards that accept 240-pin fullsize DIMMs on 945GM chipset, so I think it's possible, but it doesn't really matter. The savings are in the HD and in the CPU. Optical drives is a smaller gain, unless Apple swicthes from its favourite slotloading devices.

The new Mac mini doesn't have to be a lot bigger, it just has to be a slightly different shape - wider but flatter. I think Apple might do that, if they can knock $100 off the price.

Note that the slowest Core2-branded desktop CPUs, the Allendale-based ones, support an 800 MHz FSB - more than the iMac and Macbook Pro. I doubt that Apple wants to release a Mac mini with any sort of advantage over the iMac. Once the iMac moves to Santa Rosa, that advantage disappears. Is Apple holding up the Mac nano to release it at the same time as the iMac Santa Rosa?
     
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May 28, 2007, 06:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Apple just needs to make it taller and add a x16 slot.
Right. The Mac mini is 2" high and 6.5" square. A random 7950GT, by no means the biggest board out there, is 4.5*8". Allowing some space for the motherboard and risers beneath it, the Mac mini would have to be 3 times the height and half again as long as it is to just barely fit the board. You could probably cut the height a bit by adding a riser and putting the board on its size, but it's still a big size increase. The 8800 GTX 10.5" long, and you know that if the mini is not big enough to fit it, these forums will be full of people complaining about it.

You want an xMac, fine. But what you want is not a mini. If you had asked for a better mobile chip, and maybe even dreamed of a replaceable GPU in an MXM socket, you might have made some sort of sense. Asking for a full PCIe slot in a mini is not making sense.
     
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May 28, 2007, 08:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I think that a mini with a faster HD and processor would be possibly be recieved as the headless iMac that many people want.
I'm afraid for every single poster here that would appreciate that change there would be two complaining about how there's no PCI Express slot, no second HDD bay, no TV tuner, no built-in Mr. Coffee, etc...
     
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May 28, 2007, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
The G4 minis supported 1 DIMM, but the Intel minis support 2 SO-DIMMs. I don't think the mobile Intel chipsets even support full size DIMMs (different number of pins than SO-DIMMs).
I forgot about the Intel Minis being different. Humble apologies...

The rest of that post holds, though. Cube-shaped Mini = Lots of possibilities.

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May 28, 2007, 01:28 PM
 
It will be replaced by the iMac mini
     
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May 28, 2007, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
You want an xMac, fine. But what you want is not a mini.
Well, the mini is apparently dead, so who cares?

Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I'm afraid for every single poster here that would appreciate that change there would be two complaining about how there's no PCI Express slot, no second HDD bay, no TV tuner, no built-in Mr. Coffee, etc...
PCI Express slot, yes. Second HDD bay, maybe. But the thing about those two is that they are standard equipment on all the other desktop PCs out there. The TV tuner and Mr. Coffee aren't, as far as I know (although some machines do have cup holders! ).

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May 29, 2007, 02:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by MichiganRich View Post
but no iMac yet has been worth the tradeoff of having NO inputs to make use of the display.
That is my BIGGEST HUGEST GRIPE about my 24" iMac. I HATE it. It's so god damn ****ing stupid that they left it out.
     
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May 29, 2007, 03:40 AM
 
Apple has made no announcements, and there are several alternative explanations available to describe the circumstances. It could be about to be discontinued, but again, maybe not. It is all speculation by rumor mongers.
     
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May 29, 2007, 04:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
PCI Express slot, yes. Second HDD bay, maybe. But the thing about those two is that they are standard equipment on all the other desktop PCs out there.
I agree. Apple should have a system that offers roughly the features of a standard desktop PC. That said, I believe the mini is simply the wrong product to do that. The mini is supposed to be cheap and small. It sits in your living room bookshelf, it's silent, it costs less than your TV. Or it's an ultra-cheap Mac for those that just want to try out OS X. If you make a HEM out of the mini, you will not be able to serve those originally intended markets.

I think that an iMac-based HEM would make much more sense as I already pointed out in this post.

The TV tuner and Mr. Coffee aren't, as far as I know (although some machines do have cup holders! ).
Yeah, but they suck. The hole in the middle is too small to hold a big gulp and they tend to break off.
     
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May 29, 2007, 05:16 AM
 
There are several markets that the mini does well in. One is as a second Mac for normal "power users." Another is first time buyers moving from Windows. I personally know these sorts and they often choose a mini. A hosting customer of mine took his daughter to buy a Mac as it was recommended to her. (He is strictly a Windows person). She chose a mini and he played with the iMacs in the store and is convinced that will be his next computer. There are several other market segments that buy the mini but I think that as a second or third Mac for existing users it has a pretty good base of customers alone.
     
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May 29, 2007, 05:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I agree. Apple should have a system that offers roughly the features of a standard desktop PC. That said, I believe the mini is simply the wrong product to do that. The mini is supposed to be cheap and small. It sits in your living room bookshelf, it's silent, it costs less than your TV. Or it's an ultra-cheap Mac for those that just want to try out OS X. If you make a HEM out of the mini, you will not be able to serve those originally intended markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the mini for what it is. There are a lot of neat niche things you can do with something that small, but the premise of this thread is that the mini is dead. If that's true, then the best thing to do would be to replace it with a switcherbox. It would be a much better idea than replacing it with nothing, which is sadly what I fear Apple will do - make $2500 the minimum price just to use an external monitor. That would *suck*, but I wouldn't put it past Jobs to do it.

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