[BenjaminOz]

my system is a G4 MDD 1GHz (single) with 2GB RAM.

ok, i know its not the speed demon my todays standards.

but the spinning rainbow is burnt into my retinas. It is slower than less spec g4s!!

I'm running CS2 - and dealling with 'normal sized' data (no video - just graphics)

anybody got any ideas how to make my mac run a bit quicker (or healthier - i'm sure it was never this slow a few years back!)

thnx
Ben

[JonoMarshall]

Do you beachball during filters and such-like or when you save, etc?

Got much free HD space?

Running any other apps?

Looked in Activity Monitor to see what's using up the CPU?

It shouldn't be too slow, what's "normal sized" data to you?

[BenjaminOz]

whats beachballing?


normal sized image data - up to 200mb max (but thats big for me in photoshop)

I just reset the pram, and did a disk utility repair and it told me that my hard drive could not be repaired as "The underlying tast reported a faliure on exit"

could my HD be heading south?

[gse1woody]

whats beachballing?

It is the spinning rainbow. It looks like a spinning beach ball.

[BenjaminOz]

you learn something every day, here in berlin its called spinning rainbow!

but I beachball when i save, move windows, type and any 'normal' functions - I use filters very rarely.

[justmetoo]

Check out this site, don't know if it will help:
http://homepage.mac.com/boots911/.Pu...nBasics2.3.pdf

...and I prefer "spinning-beach-ball-of-death", sort of like from that old series "The Prisoner"...

[SirCastor]

You missed the question about hard drive space. If you're low on HD space, your mac might be trying to use too small of a swap partition, and as a result can't do things...

[peeb]

CS will benefit from a fast second drive.

[OreoCookie]

It might be a sign that your drive has little space left. OS X doesn't like that.

Please give us more details on your hardware and software specs. Have you installed any hacks?

[BenjaminOz]

I have the orig HD that has 30gb space free!--- i'm guessing this HD is a 7200 rpm-er

and used as my primary scratch disk for photoshop--- (no 2nd, 3rd or 4th scratch disk used, i guessed that 30gb is enough!)

I also have a secondary HD 300gb (def. 7200 maxador) but this drive is partitioned and only used as internal storage for data - not my primary HD

[BenjaminOz]

oh and no hacks..

[OreoCookie]

You still haven't mentioned what other software you have installed. Also, do you use any printers, mfps or other (possibly external) hardware?

[peeb]

So ps is running on the same disc that its scratch disk is on? One way to speed it up would be to move the scratch to a separate disc.

[Todd Madson]

Definetely move the scratch disc to the disc you're not booting on.

Same thing goes for doing multichannel music - I record to a separate SATA drive
since you CAN record to your boot drive just as you have been using the boot drive
for your PS scratch data but it makes a difference in headroom - there's more in the
way of overhead when your OS and scratch disc is on the same drive.

Also, can you give us some kind of ideas on the type of process you were
trying to perform and how long the machine hung up?

Example: "I was changing a 2400x1800 JPEG to a xyz and the conversion
caused the system to seize for 40 seconds with a spinning beachball..."

[BenjaminOz]

The programms that I run, Adobe CS2, dreamweaver, flash and microsoft office (but i never use word, its impossibly slow taking 3 minutes a to open a file - so i use text edit to paste text into indesign when needed)
I have normally have itunes, firefox, mail and and then one cs programm. sometime I have 2 cs progs open (photoshop and indesign)

the computer (or just a single app) hangs when i switch between apps and in photoshop the text tool is REALLY slow, as i type, my maschine is about 5 words behind me and I can only two finger tap type!...when i look up i can see the text catching up with me!! also if i copy and paste text in photoshop it can take up to 2 mins.

funny thing is - i ran the photoshop speed test, linked up here in the forums, and test took 4min 7 secs! which i thought was pretty good.

often Acrobat Reader crashes as soon as i open a document, before i even get to see the doc. just open and blip, gone.

my working day is not fun with this maschine, but i can't afford a new one!

[BenjaminOz]

and i have a canon ink jet ip4200 and an epson scanner 2800

internal airport extreme card ehhh thats about it... oh 2 monitors apple 20" monitor with and old IBM 15" TFT

[JonoMarshall]

Do you have many fonts installed on your system?

If so what kind of font management do you use?

[rossde]

we have one MDD still running at work and it is now on CS3 without any problems. could be font related, they cause big problems for OS X. Linotype font Explorer is great for font handling plus it is a free download that has fixed a lot of problems for us. it has tools available on it to help straighten out font problems

[BenjaminOz]

I use font agent pro... and yes i have a fair few fonts... not over the top, but i guess there is about 100 - 200 fonts.... not all are active...

i have been suspicious of font agent pro, i'll swap to lino type, see if that helps

[peeb]

Sounds like something is wrong. Try setting up another user account.

[OreoCookie]

I would create a new user, move all font files into your old user's personal library's fonts directory (located in /Users/[user name]/Library/). Then try working with photoshop and your other favorite apps to see if the computer still feels slow. If it does, it's probably not a font issue. If it doesn't, copy a few of the fonts into the new user's font directory.

[BenjaminOz]

thanx guys, i'll give that a go...

i'm guessing at worse its a HD problem... it kinda feels like that, every time it is accessing data it clamps up... at best its a font prob..

with a new user i shall find out..

i'll keep u posted

thanx again!

[peeb]

If it's accessing the drive a lot, you might want more memory.
Otherwise, how fast is your current drive? Replacing it with a new, bigger, faster one might help.

[OreoCookie]

Oh, then the harddrive could have bad sectors/be faulty. Open Disc Utility and select the harddrive. What does it say on the bottom next to SMART status? If it's anything other than `Überprüft' (I assume you use the German localization), then get a new harddrive now. Switch off your computer, get the new harddrive and don't use your harddrive for anything but transferring your files to the new harddrive. Does your harddrive make any strange clicking noises?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BenjaminOz 

whats beachballing?


normal sized image data - up to 200mb max (but thats big for me in photoshop)

I just reset the pram, and did a disk utility repair and it told me that my hard drive could not be repaired as "The underlying tast reported a faliure on exit"

could my HD be heading south?

If you can't repair your drive, I would focus all of my attention on your drive before anything else.

[BenjaminOz]

I havn't noticed any clicking noises, but then my G4lives under my desk, and my speakers seem to blast out any noises the HD may make.

I have two drives: the bootable 60gb that disk Utility can't repair and a partitioned 300gb...

I will get a new drive for booting, but how do I transfer the data when i have the new HD?

I have never swapped bootable HDs before - only installed a second 'slave' drive

[BenjaminOz]

also what should i look out for when i buy my new HD tommorow?

is the rpm or the ms more important (5400rpm v. 7200rpm & 8ms v. 12ms?)

[BenjaminOz]

what I mean is, how do I transfer all the data from my old 'broken' HD to the new HD (programes & old mails ect)

thanx

[OreoCookie]

You can use Disk Utility or an app such as Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper to do that.

Nowadays, you can buy only 7,200 rpm drives, the sweetspot is around 400-500 GB. Make sure it has a PATA (parallel ATA) connector. SATA (serial ATA) drives will not work without an adapter! Alternate.de offers reasonable prices, unless you know where to get stuff cheaper. Samsung drives are very quiet and reasonably fast. A 400 GB drive for 79 Euros seems very reasonable.

[BenjaminOz]

I have just installed my new 400GB Samsung drive. ( i paid 91 euros - but that meant i got it today)

I used Carbon Copy and juggled my drives around and now it is working, and looking like a carbon copy (except that my HD is now call G4 400 turbo!) I put the 300gb slave in the front HD bay and the 400gb master in the back HD bay to distribute the heat better)

I will also kill font agent pro and install Linotype - and set the scratch disk in PHshop to the slave drive.

I am also looking at the sonnet dual 1,8Ghz processor upgrade - i think i have been bitten my the mod bug.

(i'm also thinking about spraying the case a nice matt black, with a lack finish, but i doubt i can afford the time to do this with the jobs i need to do !)

I will post back to let u guys know if this has helpped at all - I hope it has!!!

MANY MANY THNX FOR ALL YOUR HELP

Benjamin

[peeb]

Spraying it black will definitely make it faster. You might want to think about how much value the 1.8 will give against your ultimate need to replace this machine.

[BenjaminOz]

I know, the dual 1.8 upgrade costs about 550euros over here, and that is way to much.

But, I have two options that could help:
1. I found one on ebay (new) over here, that might go for around 300euros and thats kinda acceptable
2. My friend goes to the NY this weekend, and he brings me one back and with the exchange rate at the moment it'll cost me about 300euros

this expense would be ok, as I only deal with graphics, i'm not rendering film our any other heavy duty prosessing stuff - and a dual 1,8 g4 is fine (it was 5 years ago, and graphic requirments sure havn't changed that much)

otherwise it is bite the bullet at some point and lease a new MacPro.

THE HARD DRIVE WORKS HURRAH!!!

I currently feel like i'm working on a MacPro Quad system!!

oh, I was also going to include a sliver racing stripe after spraying it black to really speed things up

[OreoCookie]

You shouldn't invest much more money into your old (read: ancient) machine. I'd rather suggest you upgrade. Even a Mac Mini will run circles around your machine.

I'm glad the problems with your current machine have been resolved.

[peeb]

I agree. Don't put any more money into this machine. The 300 euros can almost buy you a new mini, and certainly a better used machine. Also, caps lock is cruise control for AWESOME!

[BenjaminOz]

i see your point, but even a mac mini will set me back 1031 euro (excluding tax)
and this system will offer me 1.8ghz, 2gb ram and a 160 hd...

that is still a possible 700 euros more than just the 300 on the dual g4 1,8 upgrade...

and for a 1000 euro i could also get a dual g5 2ghz

and as a graphic professional, i some how wouldn't feel right working on a mac mini..

oh i don't know.. see my dilema?

[OreoCookie]

A mini for over 1000 Euros?

First of all, the cpu in the Mac mini is about four to five times faster (even though they run at the same `speed' than the upgrade), the difference will be even more significant if you compare it to your current setup. You simply get external FireWire enclosures (which sell for about 30-35 Euros a piece in Munich), 2 GB RAM (about 90-100 Euros) and take the small Mini (620 Euros).

IMHO the iMac has a better value, though. Gravis offers the 17" model for less than the mini you've configured. Don't forget that all new Macs include OS X 10.4 and iLife (which would cost extra in the upgrading process). You can connect a second monitor to iMacs as well and do monitor spanning, you have a much faster graphics card. And its cpu is still significantly faster than the Dual G5 in most applications.

These are new machines, but even used Macs (e. g. iMac G5s) will be a lot faster. I've checked MacUP's Kleinanzeigen: they sell used iMacs for 800+ Euro (with Intel CPU) or 650+ Euros (with G5 CPU). Depending on what you want (in particular screen size), you can make good deals.

Even if you have emotional reservations, take the `run circles around your current system' literally. If you can work with such an aging system, you'll be just fine with an iMac or a Mac mini. I would definitely suggest you have a look at (used, refurbished or new) iMacs. The Mac mini hasn't been updated in a while and isn't as attractive, price-wise, as the iMac is.

[BenjaminOz]

wow, thanks oreo

i'm reckon then in the not to distant future the best bet would be a new imac (funny they never choose the name, just 'mac' for the intel imacs)

what with the ability to add and span a second monitor (i was not aware that u could do this, and i already have a 20" apple display ) - plus some external firewire enclosures for my current HD's

and that is a good set up!

thanks for this statment:

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Even if you have emotional reservations, take the `run circles around your current system' literally. If you can work with such an aging system, you'll be just fine with an iMac or a Mac mini.

that helpped a lot to put it in perspective ! makes sense and u are right!

untile the not to distant future comes, i shall enjoy the pleasure of working on my 'ancient' system that doesn't have a glitchy HD!! !!

thanx again!!!

Oz

[rubaiyat]

I'd take a very long hard look at your fonts. Especially if you have a 2nd font manager other than Apple's FontBook, they tend to get twisted into knots.

30Gb HD space is not much if it is on your start up disk. Best toi have a clean empty FW drive or volume just for scratch space.

Another suspect can be Safari which has a memory leak and builds up piles of caches when you are tabbing web sites.

[JonoMarshall]

I'd take a very long hard look at your fonts. Especially if you have a 2nd font manager other than Apple's FontBook, they tend to get twisted into knots.

FontBook is a dog when you have over 200 fonts on any sytem, Linotype, Suitcase or similar will outperform FontBook any day of the week. Just do some research into Font management first, blindly playing around with system fonts is what will get you into knots!

[BenjaminOz]

well i now have a 400gb drive that i boot from, and a second partitioned HD that is 60gb of dedicated scratch disk.

I have killed Font Agent pro, and i am now using linotype explorer - which seems to be working nicley now.
I have now done a full days 'normal' work on the updated mashine and all seems good, or at least a lot better than what it was like before.

[bjojade]

Getting a Mac Mini will not improve your speed, as your software is not intel native. In fact, you would most likely notice a decrease in performance with a mini.

As far as improving your performance, clearing cache files often helps significantly. Bloated font caches can bring your system to a crawl.

Font caches can be cleared on 10.4 systems by rebooting holding down the shift key at startup. Once the machine starts up, restart again without the shift key and you're good to go.

To clear more caches, the utility Tiger Cache cleaner does an excellent job. It can also help run maintenance scripts to bring back performance to your system.

[peeb]

Good point on the non-intel software.

[OreoCookie]

This is not necessarily true: most of the software will be native: Mail, Safari, etc. While you may argue that the performance of these apps isn't `what counts', I think one will see an enormous difference, especially since the OP is going from a single cpu, single core to a dual-core machine.

Even though PS CS2 is not native, it doesn't have to be slower on an Intel-based Mac. Although the two machines in the test are the fastest PowerPC Mac ever built (Quad G5) vs. a quad-core 3 GHz Mac Pro, CS2 on the Mac Pro seems to be faster for certain tasks after it has launched (which takes longer). Obviously things are different once you start comparing CS3 on both machines … 

[BenjaminOz]

so with an upgarde to CS3 the issue of non native software doesn't really count anyway. I seem to only work these days in the creative suit (plus mail and firefox - is there a native intel version of firefox now?)

i don't even use word as it is such a pig of a programm and i just use text edit to copy and paste what i need.

so bottom line is:

sell my battle horse G4 MDD, get a loan and buy a new mac (imac or macbook) and hope to hell i get enough jobs to pay the mac off and pay the rent at the same time!

[OreoCookie]

Pretty much all apps and virtually every free app is available as a universal binary (which means it contains a native version for Intel and PowerPC). That includes Mail, all browsers and most small apps you might need. All Apple apps that are included with the OS are universal binaries, of course. Adobe is again a bit, ahem, slow in offering native versions, but CS3 is fully native on Intel.

I'd sell your G4 on ebay, for one reason or another, you'll get good prices. You might want to check out refurbished iMacs/MacBooks. BTW, the MacBooks have just been updated recently, but the iMacs are due for an update. Steve is expected to present new ones today, but we shall know more in two hours

[besson3c]

It's always amusing to me that many here are on a first name basis with "Steve"

Just goes to show you how important Steve Jobs is to Apple's identity...

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by BenjaminOz 

...so bottom line is: sell my battle horse G4 MDD, get a loan and buy a new mac (imac or macbook) and hope to hell i get enough jobs to pay the mac off and pay the rent at the same time!

Your battle horse is a tower and towers are by definition stronger pro boxes than consumer grade iMacs and Macbooks. The fact is that if you intend pro work you should be very cautious about moving to a consumer system. Not that an iMac is unusable today; today 3 GB RAM for Adobe CS3 apps is workable. However, for life cycle pro desktop usage (your G4 has had what, a 6 year life cycle?) a tower is a much sounder life cycle purchase decision than an iMac.

Similarly if you need portability badly enough to choose to accept a laptop's inherent power and RAM limitations you should stick with the Macbook Pros. The lack of screen real estate, lack of separate graphics card, lack of FW 800 and lack of PC card slot make Macbooks unacceptable as primary-use pro graphics boxes.

Note that already today Photoshop's performance improves with up to 8 GB of RAM even on legacy G5 systems. As we move into OS 10.5, 10.6, CS4, etc. (all well within the life cycle of a new box) IMO the 3 GB RAM limitation of MBs and iMacs will become significantly more limiting than it already is today.

-Allen Wicks

P.S. I currently do pro photo & graphics on a 1 GHz DP G4 tower and a 17" C2D MBP. The MBP is the 3rd laptop during the G4 tower's long successful life cycle.

[OreoCookie]

I think the question is somewhat different here: a Mac Pro is undoubtedly a very good machine, but about it's twice as expensive as a new iMac (and the Mac Pro doesn't include a screen). The OP seems to be struggling to get the money for a new iMac, so I suppose a Mac Pro is (financially) out of the question.

I also think that `consumer Macs' can be just as good as `Pro Macs', there are many professionals (e. g. Ken Rockwell who uses an iBook G4) that use consumer Macs for professional stuff. So did I with my trusty iBook G3 (I went through 3 keyboards, if that's any indication). Especially Photoshop isn't as demanding as people make it out to be: applications such as Aperture and FC are much more sensitive to RAM and graphics card than photoshop is (before I launch Aperture, I usually close all unnecessary apps ). (My best friend gave away his MacBook Pro for a MacBook which still works beautifully with his 23" Cinema HD display.)

[BenjaminOz]

Yes of course money is part of the problem, coupled with my need for portability. If i had the cash a 17" high res MacBook pro would join me in my daily grind from tomorrow. Yes my tower has survived 6 years, but a partner of mine still produces all his graphic on a g4 titanium laptop that really is a battle horse and even i can't believe that this macshine still even works. (when he starts it up, i think people in the other studio are hoovering, no joke!)

I will find out in the next few months how important my portability will be and the take the plunge of imac/MacBook or a new bottom range MacPro.

I also use a G4 PowerBook 12" 1.2ghz - this will take the ebay path with my current tower. I am guessing that i'll get around 1000euros for the two, so that takes me a fair way to the price of a new mac

Until then my MDD G4 Tower will battle on