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stevesnj · Jun 6, 2007, 07:36 PM

I have an old G4 667 at my work and want to use it for file storage for my 5 new MacPro's. Anyone know the best way to turn it into a 1 or 2 TB file storage device? It has GigaBit Ethernet and I have a GB switch so I figured I could max it out with HD's . Any suggestions on how to do this? I teach Video Editing and want to use it for video workflows too.

scottiB · Jun 6, 2007, 07:57 PM

That model is limited to 137GB IDE drives as shipped. Your best be is to put in an SATA PCI card and mount two SATA drives side-by-side to the floor of the unit (where SCSI drives were intended to go).

Newegg.com - SoNNeT TSATA PCI SATA Controller Card - Retail

The max the G4 is intended to hold is three drives, but you can put in 4 (one on top of the boot drive and the two on the floor).

bigpoppa206 · Jun 7, 2007, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by scottiB

That model is limited to 137GB IDE drives as shipped. Your best be is to put in an SATA PCI card and mount two SATA drives side-by-side to the floor of the unit (where SCSI drives were intended to go).

Newegg.com - SoNNeT TSATA PCI SATA Controller Card - Retail

The max the G4 is intended to hold is three drives, but you can put in 4 (one on top of the boot drive and the two on the floor).

For those who need even more space, I crammed 2 more drives on top of the Superdrive in my Digital Audio G4. Probably not recommended but it worked.

bballe336 · Jun 7, 2007, 07:05 PM

You can get 6-8 drives in a single processor G4 no problem.

gse1woody · Jun 8, 2007, 09:38 AM

can you use the dual drive sleds in the SCSI spots?

Kenneth · Jun 8, 2007, 04:02 PM

A headless G4?

stevesnj · Jun 8, 2007, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by bballe336

You can get 6-8 drives in a single processor G4 no problem.

I would like to use SATA drives since I will be doing video workflows. If I used 2 SATA drive cards and 4 500MB drives for use with 6 workstations, would I have a problem with the drives on OS X? I want to run an stdard ATA 40gb drive just for the OS. I am just concerned about data collisions on the network card.

OreoCookie · Jun 8, 2007, 04:35 PM

The interface will make no difference: parallel ATA drives are just as fast as SATA drives. Especially since in your situation the cpu and the network will probably be the bottleneck.

However, if you want to use that many drives in a professional environment, perhaps a storage solution would be better suited … (which could still utilize your G4 as a server).

When you are talking about more than four drives, IMHO you should put some thought into how to use them before making a purchase. I'm sure we can help you making a decision if you detail your needs (including backup and growth of data volume per month, applications, etc.). If all you really need is 1-2 TB, then you'd only need to get one to three harddrives (depending on the capacity and the security you want).

If I may ask, why are you concerned about data collisions on the network card?

stevesnj · Jun 8, 2007, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

The interface will make no difference: parallel ATA drives are just as fast as SATA drives. Especially since in your situation the cpu and the network will probably be the bottleneck.

I was under the impression that SATA drives had a faster data transfer rate than PATA.

When you are talking about more than four drives, IMHO you should put some thought into how to use them before making a purchase. I'm sure we can help you making a decision if you detail your needs (including backup and growth of data volume per month, applications, etc.). If all you really need is 1-2 TB, then you'd only need to get one to three harddrives (depending on the capacity and the security you want).

I plan to use the storage for my Final Cut Studio file storage. I am teaching FCS in a high school and this G4 is no longer needed so I figured If I could make it into a cheap file server/storage solution for the students to work off of. I would like 2TB so I figured 4x 500GB HD's would be around 2 TB? Is there a larger HD out that would make you say I would need only 3 HD?

If I may ask, why are you concerned about data collisions on the network card?

because of 4-5 students accessing the file server at the same time. I don't know if this is a concern with Gigabit Ethernet.

OreoCookie · 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

I was under the impression that SATA drives had a faster data transfer rate than PATA.

If a harddrive is offered with both interfaces, there is no difference in speed. Some drives are only offered as SATA drives, e. g. the Raptor. But a Raptor isn't faster, because it is a SATA drive, but simply because it is a fast drive

Originally Posted by stevesnj

I plan to use the storage for my Final Cut Studio file storage. I am teaching FCS in a high school and this G4 is no longer needed so I figured If I could make it into a cheap file server/storage solution for the students to work off of. I would like 2TB so I figured 4x 500GB HD's would be around 2 TB? Is there a larger HD out that would make you say I would need only 3 HD?

The largest harddrives you can currently buy have a capacity of 1 TB. However, these drives are very expensive (per Gigabyte). There is an important difference, however: if you want to combine the 4 drives to one volume (which seems like the most sensible solution in your case), then you are far more likely to lose data than with 2 drives or just one. However, since you are working in a professional environment, you should use a (hardware) RAID5 to combine the 4 (or more) drives to one volume. A RAID5 can survive the failure of one harddrive without any loss of data whereas in a JBOD (just a bunch of disks) or a RAID0, all data is lost if you lose one drive. In a RAID5, you simply replace the broken drive and then the RAID is automatically rebuilt by the hardware controller. I definitely do not recommend using 4+ drives in a JBOD/RAID0 in a professional environment for storage.

Note that this may change if Apple adopts ZFS (which seems to be fairly certain) and the possibility to create a RAID-Z (which might or might not happen, perhaps you have to pay for OS X server …) and which is roughly equivalent to RAID5. Then you wouldn't need a hardware controller and you'd have all the features I've mentioned above. We shall know more about this Monday

Originally Posted by stevesnj

because of 4-5 students accessing the file server at the same time. I don't know if this is a concern with Gigabit Ethernet.

No, I don't think so. If anything, the cpu will be the bottleneck, but that's something you should try.

One more suggestion: perhaps it's worthwhile to invest in an external SATA enclosure such as this one (since you need an additional controller anyway to address more than 127 GB) instead of cramming all those poor drives into your tower. You would be able to change drives much more easily, it is made sure that they have enough ventilation and you can access each one easily. The above-mentioned enclosure will cost about $100 per drive.

The other option I would suggest is a hardware RAID5, e. g. Wiebetech's RT5e which sports up to 4 GB for RAID5 storage (=(5-1)x1 TB drives). (Make sure to get the new 5e model which connects only via eSATA, but doesn't have a 2 TB per volume limitation which is due to USB 2.0.)

Perhaps it's useful to check out this storage solutions thread with user feedback from real-world solutions.

scottiB · Jun 11, 2007, 03:34 PM

whoopsie

scottiB · Jun 11, 2007, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by gse1woody

can you use the dual drive sleds in the SCSI spots?

No, because it would prohibit the door from closing.

stevesnj · Jun 11, 2007, 05:29 PM

Hey Oreo can I just buy a SATA controller and put it into the case? I made my own CD/DVD duplicator and all I need was a case, power supply, the dvd drive controller and drives. no mobo at all. If I could do the same type of thing it would be cost effective. I just can't justify the cost of SATA enclosers plus drives at $1200.++ to my principal.

OreoCookie · Jun 11, 2007, 06:03 PM

You can get much cheaper external enclosures, too, and an SATA controller. Since you need a controller one way or the other, the controller won't make much of a difference for your cost-analysis. 500 GB drives are rather cheap these days and probably are even on the sweet spot of harddrives (lowest cost per GB), a 1 TB drive costs about three times that of a 500 GB drive. So you might actually just add the drives as individual volumes and you'd arrive at the following list of things to get for 2 TB of storage (I just quickly hit newegg.com and checked the prices; yes, you might be able to find components cheaper if you really look hard, but it gives you an idea of how much you need to spend):
4 x 500 GB drive: 4x$150-170 = $600-680
4 x external SATA enclosure: 4x$40-50 = $160-200 (there are slightly cheaper ones, but they don't have fans)
1 x SATA controller: $100

So it looks as if you are going to spend at least $900, so the order of magnitude is pretty much the same. Even if you can shave off a few more dollars by looking really hard, your requirements pretty much nail down the type of hardware you need to get.