[ninahagen]

Here is a link to the latest 1TB drive from Seagate:

http://techlogg.com/content/view/268/1/

—Will this work in a Mac Pro, or will we have to wait for firmware.
—It has a data transfer rate of 105 Mb/s, supposedly the highest ever. Does that even beat the 10k rpm Raptors?

[brokenjago]

It will work on the Mac Pro, yes.

[ninahagen]

Thanks brokenjago! (as always)...

Really, no firmware needed? If so, that is heavenly!

How about the transfer rate in comparison with the Raptors?

If it turns out to be as fast, I have my HD solution right here.

nina

[OreoCookie]

It's a myth that the Raptor is about transfer rate, it's about access time. Since the data density is pretty low compared to today's drive that's entirely possible.

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

It's a myth that the Raptor is about transfer rate, it's about access time. Since the data density is pretty low compared to today's drive that's entirely possible.

Thanks for answering OreoCookie. Always satisfying to read your threads/answers.

Access time is the same as seek time, right?

The Seagate has an 8.5 millisecond seek time.

On the WD site you find the full specs for the raptor:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Produ...eID=189#jump11

It gives read seek time at 4.6ms, write seek time at 5.2ms and full stroke seek at 10.2ms. Is the 10.2 the comparable figure to Seagate's 8.5?

Also, Seagate has a 32MB cache, double the size of the Raptor? Will that help speed?

And could you just confirm what brokenjago implied... that no firmware is needed... i can just plug-and-play in a new Mac Pro?

[Lateralus]

Why would you think a firmware update is needed?

[OreoCookie]

The Raptor will work fine as it is.
I would suggest you don't make your decision by seek times, but rather by what you intend to use it for: if you need a large harddrive to hold all your data, a 1 TB drive will be much better suited for your needs. If you want a smaller system and scratch drive, the Raptor might be worth considering. This would mean that you probably needed a larger drive in addition to the Raptor as well.

Also, you will only see a large difference between a 10k drive such as the Raptor and fast 7.2k harddrive if you have many random reads/writes (this is when the seek time is important). If you read smaller files (MB and few tens of MB), you will probably not benefit a lot/at all eaaither (as the differences are in the fractions of a second if any).

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Why would you think a firmware update is needed?

On the Mac/Seagate thread there was a lot of discussion about needing firmware for certain Seagate drives... I didn't want to reopen that discussion here, just wanted to see it coming if this was still an issue.

I just called Seagate, and they asserted with confidence that the new Barracudas are plug-and-play in Mac Pros.

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

The Raptor will work fine as it is.
I would suggest you don't make your decision by seek times, but rather by what you intend to use it for: if you need a large harddrive to hold all your data, a 1 TB drive will be much better suited for your needs. If you want a smaller system and scratch drive, the Raptor might be worth considering. This would mean that you probably needed a larger drive in addition to the Raptor as well.

Also, you will only see a large difference between a 10k drive such as the Raptor and fast 7.2k harddrive if you have many random reads/writes (this is when the seek time is important). If you read smaller files (MB and few tens of MB), you will probably not benefit a lot/at all eaaither (as the differences are in the fractions of a second if any).

I am using it for monster multi-layer 1GB+ Photoshop and Illustator files.

The staffer at Seagate seemed to think I would be best off with:

Bay 1: System Disc (their new 15k rpm drive in the small size 36GB I think)
Bay 2: Scratch Drive (same speed drive as above, possibly bigger depending on Adobe's reccomendation for CS3... he didn't know exactly)
Bay 3: Storage Drive (Baracuda 7200.11, 1TB)
Bay 4: Mirror Drive (same 1TB)

Does that sound right?

nina

[OreoCookie]

You cannot use 15k SAS drives in the Mac Pro's internal bays. Raptors would be the best bet. I would suggest a different configuration, though:

Bay 1: System drive. This drive may be large, too.
Bay 2: large drive.
Bay 3 + Bay 4: two identical Raptors in a RAID0 as scratch volume. Choose the size of the drives by estimating . (A RAID0 will be a lot faster than a single drive, but you increase the probability of data loss due to failure. Make sure to store files on different hds as well.)

External harddrive(s): for backup purposes (important!). Choose the sizes accordingly.

I'm surprised the tech support didn't suggest a RAID0 as a scratch drive. The RAID0 will probably be faster than the 15k drives. In the thread I link to below, another member details his (positive) experiences with a RAID0 comprised of two Raptors as scratch drive.

If you need a lot of storage capacity, you should take a look at the storage solutions thread where fellow members explain their storage solutions. Make sure to have a backup solution ready! Some people just buy a harddrive for each job (and charge the client for it) and save all data on pertaining to the job on it.

[ninahagen]

How about using all Raptor 150GBs in:

Bay 1 as System Drive, Bays 2~4 in a 3-drive RAID 0 array...

...then using this harness:

Sonic State - News 6 Hard Drives On A Mac Pro, NewerTech eSATA Extender Cable for 8-core/quad-core computers adds two external eSATA devices

to create external drive Bays 5 & 6— Bay 5 with a 1TB Seagate for file strorage, and Bay 6 with a identical drive in mirror configuration?

[OreoCookie]

Mirroring drives if you need capacity is not a good idea.
But I think you should slow down. You still think in terms of harddrives, cables and screws. Instead, focus on your needs and detail them here. Read up in the thread I've linked to. You can still get an eSATA card with four additional external connectors or simply connect an XRaid with 14 drives if you want lots of drives

The one thing I'm also missing is long-term storage and backups: how do you want to do that? Mirroring drives is not a backup, by the way! This should be central to your considerations!

(1) How much data do you currently have?
(2) How much data do you want to add each month?
(3) What are your backup and long-term storage solutions?
(4) How much scratch space do you need at a given point in time?

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Mirroring drives if you need capacity is not a good idea.
But I think you should slow down. You still think in terms of harddrives, cables and screws. Instead, focus on your needs and detail them here. Read up in the thread I've linked to. You can still get an eSATA card with four additional external connectors or simply connect an XRaid with 14 drives if you want lots of drives

The one thing I'm also missing is long-term storage and backups: how do you want to do that? Mirroring drives is not a backup, by the way! This should be central to your considerations!

(1) How much data do you currently have?
(2) How much data do you want to add each month?
(3) What are your backup and long-term storage solutions?
(4) How much scratch space do you need at a given point in time?

Thanks again for the detailed response. From the top...

Needs: We use all elements of CS2 at once, and batch large groups of 1GB+ files at a time on our current G5 quad 2.5 (8GB RAM). If you are batching in PS and want to work between Illustrator & inDesign, slowdowns are inevitable, especially when there is heavy layering involved. No complaints about the G5, we were thrilled with it when we got it, and will move it to another office.

As for data, we might have 1 TB at present, but keep about 2/3 of it on a stack of discs which are cumbersome around the office... want it all in the box so we can find it easily.

That varies, but our last project a few months ago involved hi-res scanning of around 180 photographs from a photographic estate we handled. We needed several versions for each. Low-res for the website, semi hi-res for sending printable files, hi-res raw masters, and hi res corrected masters for book printing.

Here is the site, if anyone wants to see a sample what we do in Japanese photography.

www.iwase-photo.com

So, we ended up with data on three computers and a set of DVDs... just want enough storage to have it all in one place AND be able to work with it fast on our best machine, which will be a MacPro, once we figure out the configuration.

Re: backup... I guess I naively thought that mirroring or cloning a second drive would be enough safety. I have never had one drive fail, let alone two at once (expecting a laptop way back in 96). Would you be kind enough to clarify this?

The last question about how much scratch space we need is a great one. I asked WD, they said ask Adobe, but if you could answer it I would be most grateful. Can you guess from the tasks I outlined?

One last note: Money is not such an issue. Set it and forget it for 3+ years is the goal, and getting the best we can now, with some room to spare for Leopard, a 64-bit PS, etc.

Many thanks OreoCookie, so nice to hear your point of view...

nina

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

As for data, we might have 1 TB at present, but keep about 2/3 of it on a stack of discs which are cumbersome around the office... want it all in the box so we can find it easily.

If you have 1 TB now, then a 1 TB drive will be too small.
Again, I really encourage you to read through the other thread.

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

That varies, but our last project a few months ago involved hi-res scanning of around 180 photographs from a photographic estate we handled. We needed several versions for each. Low-res for the website, semi hi-res for sending printable files, hi-res raw masters, and hi res corrected masters for book printing.

Yes, but how much was that in GB? I have no idea how large a high-res scan is in your case (do you shoot in Medium format or 36mm, etc.).

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

Here is the site, if anyone wants to see a sample what we do in Japanese photography.
Yoshiyuki Iwase PHOTO | TOP

Nice pictures!

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

So, we ended up with data on three computers and a set of DVDs... just want enough storage to have it all in one place AND be able to work with it fast on our best machine, which will be a MacPro, once we figure out the configuration.

One of our members (a professional photographer) just charges his clients for an external harddrive and stores the files onto that harddrive in addition to storing them on his RAID5. Make sure to store them offsite (i. e. not in your office in a safe location. This protects against fire. Note that external harddrives are very cheap (I paid 130 Euros for my 400 GB FireWire drive) and you can bill your clients for them.

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

Re: backup... I guess I naively thought that mirroring or cloning a second drive would be enough safety. I have never had one drive fail, let alone two at once (expecting a laptop way back in 96). Would you be kind enough to clarify this?

When you delete a file or the RAID1 fails (e. g. because of an error in the OS), then you might lose your data. However, the biggest danger to your data is you (accidental deletion). So you need a backup solution with your storage solution. Backups is often not about drive failure, it's an insurance to you and your company and the question is: how much is your data worth to you. I dare say that if you were to lose all your data, your company would go belly up (that's not just an opinion, but statistics support this). Without knowing how much data you need to back up, it's hard to answer this.

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

The last question about how much scratch space we need is a great one. I asked WD, they said ask Adobe, but if you could answer it I would be most grateful. Can you guess from the tasks I outlined?

No, neither I nor Adobe can answer that given the scarce information you have provided. You have to know how big your files are, how many concurrent copies you have on the scratch drives, etc.

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

One last note: Money is not such an issue. Set it and forget it for 3+ years is the goal, and getting the best we can now, with some room to spare for Leopard, a 64-bit PS, etc.

Ok, then I dare to suggest you to have a look at an external RAID5 a la WiebeTech RT5e. It uses eSATA and if you buy eSATA cards for all your machines, you can even use it as an `external harddrive' at full (!) speed. There is an older model RT5 which only allows 2 TB per volume (this is due to USB 2.0 connectors).


However, all this is idle speculation, you really need to provide us with numbers here. If you want to keep this solution for 3+ years, then you need to have a look at how much data accumulates of that period of time. You have to give us more detailed information with numbers.