[ignaro]

I'm about to be converted. For years I've had the same PC, upgrading one component at a time-- now only one stick of ram remains from the original.

As a 3d artist, a Mac just makes more sense but I'm concerned with the hefty prices on Mac upgrade parts and am wondering what of the following works if I were to just buy it from, say, NewEgg.com...:

-Ram, does the Mac Pro use DDR2, do clock speeds matter?
-Hard drives, I assume these work but are there any known to not work? Does the Mac Pro have any regular IDE (ribbon) HD connections? Can I add a PCI card with IDE channels?
-PCI cards-- I think Apple says the Mac Pro has several PCI slots so will any pci cards work? How about PCI Express x1, x4, x8? Are the video cards in regular PCI Express x16 slots or are they different?
-Video cards-- This one matters the most to me because the Mac's video card options are far from top-of-the-line and that's what I need. Will a regular PC video card work in a Mac Pro? I remember in G5 days the Mac version of cards was always one generation behind and 30% more expensive.
-USB and onboard audio-- do these use the same pins-on-the-mobo system as PCs? I ask because I might want to disconnect them and put them more in-reach than the tower.
-Any other compatibility perks or let-downs, I'd love to hear 'em!

Thanks a ton guys!

[Biest]

RAM: Only FB-DIMMs nothing else will work and the clock speeds matter, there aren't really that many options out there
HDD: from what i see, most cards only work with PowerMacs G5s and lower
PCI: They are all PCI-X slots: 1x 16x, 2x 4x and 1x 1x, as fas as i know
Video Card: Only the options that are on the website
USB, etc.: Same pins, everything is the same as on PC... these are ISO stanards

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by ignaro 

USB and onboard audio -- do these use the same pins-on-the-mobo system as PCs? I ask because I might want to disconnect them and put them more in-reach than the tower.

Originally Posted by Biest 

USB, etc.: Same pins, everything is the same as on PC... these are ISO stanards

I think either Biest misunderstood your question or I have, so allow me to clarify... The Mac Pro does not have motherboard connectors for audio or USB. There are the usual 1/8" audio jacks on the back of the case and USB ports on the back and the front of the case. It's, of course, trivial to extend the USB with a USB hub (even the USB hub that's built into the Apple Cinema Displays, if you were thinking about buying one of those too). There is not, however, a PC-style pin connector on the motherboard inside the Mac Pro. If you're talking about those PC-standard things like this then no, the Mac Pro doesn't provide anything like that.

Same for audio. 1/8" external jacks, but nothing inside the case that can take a plug like you might be thinking of.

Originally Posted by Biest 

PCI: They are all PCI-X slots: 1x 16x, 2x 4x and 1x 1x, as fas as i know

They are PCI Express, which is "PCIe". "PCI-X" is the older standard which was in the second-to-last generation of PowerMac G5.

Originally Posted by ignaro 

-Hard drives, I assume these work but are there any known to not work? Does the Mac Pro have any regular IDE (ribbon) HD connections? Can I add a PCI card with IDE channels?

On hard drives, the Mac Pro can take up to four standard SATA drives. You can probably "steal" one of the old-style ribbon-cable IDE connectors from the second optical disk slot, but it wouldn't be a supported upgrade and might take some finagling to get it to work. I've never tried, but it's theoretically possible. I'm not sure that ribbon-style IDE cables qualify as "regular" these days, that's pretty old kit.

[shinji]

Regarding the video card...people are expecting an update. There's an nvidia geforce 8 series in the Macbook Pro, so it'd make sense it will be coming to the Mac Pro. You can't just use an off-the-shelf PC video card.

And it does use DDR2 FB-DIMM's, this is what I bought Computer memory upgrades for Apple Mac Pro (4-core) Desktop/PC from Crucial.com

As far as other compatibility/upgrade issues...so far I've upgraded the RAM to 4 gb and added WD's new 750 gb sata hd. No problems at all I'm really happy with the purchase- I switched back to macs earlier this year.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ignaro 

-Ram, does the Mac Pro use DDR2, do clock speeds matter?

The Mac Pro uses DDR2 FB-DIMMs, which are different than 'regular old' DDR2 that most PCs use. They allow for more memory bandwidth (up to twice as much) and capacity (up to 32 or 64GB; I forget where Apple set the ceiling on the Mac Pro), but they're also hotter and more expensive. And you can't just buy any old DDR2 FB-DIMMs, you need special oversized heatsinks so they don't overheat and throw errors in the Mac Pro; fortunately a number of vendors and resellers have the modules you need.

Originally Posted by ignaro 

-Hard drives, I assume these work but are there any known to not work? Does the Mac Pro have any regular IDE (ribbon) HD connections? Can I add a PCI card with IDE channels?

The Mac Pro has 4 built in SATA hard drive bays, as Nugget mentioned, and you can stick an IDE hard drive in one of the optical bays without too much trouble.

Originally Posted by ignaro 

-PCI cards-- I think Apple says the Mac Pro has several PCI slots so will any pci cards work? How about PCI Express x1, x4, x8? Are the video cards in regular PCI Express x16 slots or are they different?

They're standard PCIe (PCI Express) slots; older PCI cards won't work (or even fit) in them. There are 28 PCIe lanes available, and a few different configurations you can put them in. PCIe 16x, 8x, or 4x is used for the video card, depending on how you configure the slots.

Originally Posted by ignaro 

-Video cards-- This one matters the most to me because the Mac's video card options are far from top-of-the-line and that's what I need. Will a regular PC video card work in a Mac Pro? I remember in G5 days the Mac version of cards was always one generation behind and 30% more expensive.

No, random off-the-shelf PC video cards will not work in the Mac Pro (although some can be made to work with some hacking). The only video card options are the ones Apple sells (no one has even made any aftermarket cards yet).

Unless you're in desperate need of an upgrade, I'd wait on purchasing a Mac Pro until it is updated. The CPU, RAM, graphics card, and hard drive are all overdue for an upgrade. I expect the new 'base' ($2500) model to be 8-core 2.66Ghz, 2GB RAM, 8400GS 128MB, and 400GB disk.

[ignaro]

Thanks a ton, guys. So the final word is that the Mac is even less compatible with... everything... than I'd expected. I'm glad you mentioned it was overdue for an upgrade, I'll definitely hold out on that. Is there somewhere cheap with all the available upgrades/addons that does for Macs what NewEgg.com and others do for the PC?

[shinji]

owc would be one place OWC: Apple Mac G4 upgrades, Laptop Batteries, Memory, Drives

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ignaro 

Thanks a ton, guys. So the final word is that the Mac is even less compatible with... everything... than I'd expected. I'm glad you mentioned it was overdue for an upgrade, I'll definitely hold out on that.

No, the Mac Pro only uses standard PC hardware. With the exception of the graphics card (only Mac-compatible graphics card work), you can put plain-vanilla PC components in it. PCIe is the predominant connector in the PC world, FB-DIMMs are used throughout the industry for PC workstations (regular PCs use different RAM, though) and SATA is just SATA.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ignaro 

Thanks a ton, guys. So the final word is that the Mac is even less compatible with... everything... than I'd expected. I'm glad you mentioned it was overdue for an upgrade, I'll definitely hold out on that. Is there somewhere cheap with all the available upgrades/addons that does for Macs what NewEgg.com and others do for the PC?

You can buy most of your hardware from Newegg, except for graphics cards which you can get from Apple directly.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

No, the Mac Pro only uses standard PC hardware. With the exception of the graphics card (only Mac-compatible graphics card work), you can put plain-vanilla PC components in it. PCIe is the predominant connector in the PC world, FB-DIMMs are used throughout the industry for PC workstations (regular PCs use different RAM, though) and SATA is just SATA.

OTOH, a lot of off-the-shelf PCIe cards won't work in the Mac Pro under OS X, not due to any physical/electrical compatibility, but due to the lack of drivers. I'm thinking of sound cards, TV tuners, and USB/FW/eSATA expansion cards.

[AdamDZ]

I've tried four PCI-e USB cards in MacPro (2 generic from NewEgg, one Sonnet card - supposingly compatible) and only the forth one from OWC (Aaxeon) works properly. BTW, all four work fine with Windows XP without any extra drivers, but not with the world's most advanced operating system... The other three are recognized but devices connected to them don't work. The Sonnet card only works with flash drives, nothing else... So much for ISO standards... I think we shouldn't use "standards" and "Apple" in one sentence. I've been Mac/PC user for years. I work with Macs but had PCs at home. I've recently brought an older G5 from work and tried to switch, but Apple really makes it hard for power users. I need 10+ USB ports, I want fast video card. I'm having second thoughts now seeing that Apple really doesn't respect power users about building myself another PC.

A.

[chinolatte]

Has anyone tried upgrading the processors in their Mac Pro? Is that even possible? Anyone know what socket they are?

[shinji]

I haven't, chinolatte, but there is an article on anandtech about doing this, which was my initial interest in the Mac Pro over another PC.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832

[P]

The processors are upgradeable to other Xeons. Not sure if anyone has tried a downgrade to a Pentium 4-based model, but all the Core 2-based ones work. The socket is 771.

In general, if something requires drivers on the Windows side, it requires them on the Mac side, and unless specified, those drivers often don't exist. Apple also has a tendency to embrace standards completely and then not look back - if you get a PC today, it has both PCIe and old-style PCI slots, but once Apple made the switch, PCI was gone. FB-DIMM is coming, for the simple reason that it has the potential to make motherboards much cheaper, but they're still hot and expensive with a higher latency than regular DIMMs. Apple used them to be able to raise the RAM ceiling over the 8 gigs you're limited to with regular DIMMs. The last Powermac G5 had a 16 gig max - dropping back to 8 with the Intel switch would have been a step in the wrong direction.

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by chinolatte 

Has anyone tried upgrading the processors in their Mac Pro? Is that even possible? Anyone know what socket they are?

Yep. Possible. Expensive, but possible. Socket 771 Core 2 based Xeon processors will work. But be aware you have to swap out both at the same time, so it could be an expensive project. 3.0GHz Xeon (Woodcrest) 5160 dual-core processors are $883 each at NewEgg. The quad-core 2.66GHz Xeon 5355 are $900+ each, and the 3.0GHz Xeon 5365 the 8-core Mac Pros use are close to $1200 each.

[mduell]

And in 2.5 months, those quads will be dirt cheap.
2.5Ghz quad for the current 2Ghz dual price. 2.83Ghz quad for the current 2.66Ghz dual price. 3Ghz quad for the current 3Ghz dual price.