[ninahagen]

We plan to buy a new Mac Pro on day 1 of the nex gen release. One of our offices will be getting the older office G5 Quad 2.5 with 8GB RAM, so I had a few questions about cost effective ways to make it quicker and add storage capacity. Would someone who knows be kind enough to help out?

1. What is the theoretical limit for the number of HDs that can be used in the G5. I know in the MP there are two extra eSata nodes on the motherboard, so with a wire harness one can go to six sata drives + one drive in the optical bay. Does the G5 have any hidden capacities like that?

2. Can the vid card be upgraded and what is the best value there?

3. Are there any foreseeable problems using the latest gen seagate drives?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

1. What is the theoretical limit for the number of HDs that can be used in the G5. I know in the MP there are two extra eSata nodes on the motherboard, so with a wire harness one can go to six sata drives + one drive in the optical bay. Does the G5 have any hidden capacities like that?

2. Can the vid card be upgraded and what is the best value there?

3. Are there any foreseeable problems using the latest gen seagate drives?

1. The PowerMacs only have 2 SATA ports and 2 hard drive bays. If you want more you can buy inserts that fit in some of the PCI(e) bay and add a SATA PCI(e) card.

2. The video card can be upgraded and the best available is the X1900XT. The best value is probably what you already own, as graphics card prices are quite high.

3. No.

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by mduell 

1. The PowerMacs only have 2 SATA ports and 2 hard drive bays. If you want more you can buy inserts that fit in some of the PCI(e) bay and add a SATA PCI(e) card.

Thanks very much...

So, am I reading that right... I can add only a single PCI(e) card? What's the quickest one of those? and the highest capacity?

Originally Posted by mduell 

2. The video card can be upgraded and the best available is the X1900XT. The best value is probably what you already own, as graphics card prices are quite high.

Maybe when the new MP comes out, they will offer a new range of v cards... maybe there will be a price/performance sweet spot in that range. The current range is (ahem) lagging. It is amazing the Apple would keep selling such an embarassingly outdtated range. It is the one area where I have no answer to the taunts of Windows -based friends. I mean how hard would it be for Apple to fix this? Sheesh!

[fashizzle]

I don't have anything constructive to add to this thread, but I just wanted to state:

Cosma Shiva.

こすましーば。

[reader50]

If you add a PCIe SATA card, then with 3rd-party mounting brackets, you can add additional drives.
2 stock drive locations
3 drives forward of the CPUs
2 drives forward of the PCI bays
1 drive above the optical bay
- or, if optical drive is removed -
4 drives in place of the optical drive

With some work, and a bunch of money to 3rd parties, you can reach 11 internal drives. Going above 8 produced some reports of stressing the power supplies in earlier G5s, but the Quad has a 1,000W power supply and should be immune to such concerns.

The Radeon X1900XT is not that much faster than the Geforce 7800GT that you should have gotten with a Quad, though it's way faster than the 6600 options. If you have the GF 7800, I'd suggest waiting for the next video card upgrade to come out for the PCIe PowerMacs.

[Googer-Giger]

Yeah, the 7800GT is a great processor, I build high end gaming machines, I recommend cards with that processor for their price, (with as much ram as possible of course). 8 gigs of RAM will keep you running ahead for a while, until the standard becomes higher. It will be a while before you have to upgrade a lot, the quad is still a very speedy machine.

[OreoCookie]

The graphics card isn't really crucial to Photoshop performance (unless your requirements have changed), so upgrading the video card isn't really going to help much. Also, even in the PC world, you couldn't upgrade the video card to something substantially better: all newer video cards have a PCIe interface, while the G5 (like PCs in its time) use the older AGP interface.

Concerning more storage, practically it won't make any difference which SATA card you choose. Just be aware that additional harddrives typically offer little speed-up unless you literally run out of space or want to have a RAID0 scratch drive.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by fashizzle 

I don't have anything constructive to add to this thread, but I just wanted to state:

Cosma Shiva.

こすましーば。

What does a German actress have to do with a G5 Quad?

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by fashizzle 

I don't have anything constructive to add to this thread, but I just wanted to state:

Cosma Shiva.

こすましーば。

That is very constructive fashizzle. Invoking names of celestial beings (Shiva) and avatars (Nina) and even avatar's children (Cosma) adds a lyric purpose to our work as designers, artists and data organizers. By that I mean that the reason we use computers (and puzzle about them here) is to mold the world and our awareness of it so as to create meaning, clarity and hopefully bliss, so I salute your invocation as highly relevant to my G5 issue, work in general, and even existence itself, and just want to state:

Galaxina.

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by reader50 

If you add a PCIe SATA card, then with 3rd-party mounting brackets, you can add additional drives.
2 stock drive locations
3 drives forward of the CPUs
2 drives forward of the PCI bays
1 drive above the optical bay
- or, if optical drive is removed -
4 drives in place of the optical drive

With some work, and a bunch of money to 3rd parties, you can reach 11 internal drives. Going above 8 produced some reports of stressing the power supplies in earlier G5s, but the Quad has a 1,000W power supply and should be immune to such concerns.

The Radeon X1900XT is not that much faster than the Geforce 7800GT that you should have gotten with a Quad, though it's way faster than the 6600 options. If you have the GF 7800, I'd suggest waiting for the next video card upgrade to come out for the PCIe PowerMacs.

Good Lord, 11 drives... LOL! Well, I probably wouldn't get so extreme with the G5, since it is going to a secondary staffer, one who does some PS/video editing, but may run an archive of RAW images out of Aperture (which is why I need a better vid card... this one has a 6600 series). So, I would like to just give the machine as much bounce as I can for a less than $1000 and call it a day. How would you spend that, vid card & hd? Storage needs are maybe another 500GB (it has 2 x 250 now.

However, that does bring up a fascinating point. In theory, how many internal drives (or ones that act internal) could one stuff into a Mac Pro. Since that will be our primary machine, it would be intriguing to know how extreme it could be.

Thanks for the thoughtful comment.

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

all newer video cards have a PCIe interface, while the G5 (like PCs in its time) use the older AGP interface.

That is a very useful bit of information... thanks. So the Radeon X1900XT has the AGP interface?

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

What does a German actress have to do with a G5 Quad?

Everything. She's my muse, one of the great singers of the last 50 years and a very daring, magical person. As I try to break out myself, professionally and creatively, its good to remember people who have already done it and moved you in the process. It gives purpose to my art projects. The G5 is one of my trustiest steeds on that journey, brought into the world by another breakout personality, a certain Steve Jobs.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

...
Also, even in the PC world, you couldn't upgrade the video card to something substantially better: all newer video cards have a PCIe interface, while the G5 (like PCs in its time) use the older AGP interface.
...

This is incorrect. The earlier G5s had AGP 8x graphics slots, but the final dual-core G5s (including the Quad) have an x16 PCIe graphics slot, along with secondary PCIe expansion slots. All the slots are physically x16, so they can all accept additional PCIe graphics cards. The Radeon X1900XT for G5 is a PCIe card.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

.. So, I would like to just give the machine as much bounce as I can for a less than $1000 and call it a day. How would you spend that, vid card & hd? Storage needs are maybe another 500GB (it has 2 x 250 now.
...

I'd pick up a 750 GB PATA drive (~$220) since you always end up needing more storage than you plan on. Put it above the optical drive. In the future, 1+ TB SATA drives will drop in price and can be used to upgrade the stock SATA positions as needed.

You can add a PATA drive above the optical for the price of the drive + a power line splitter + a replacement IDE cable. I wrote up a Modification thread after doing something like this to my own Quad. You only need to look at the Optical Drive and Power sections, unless you have spare PATA drives to install in the SATA bays like I did.

In your position, I'd pick up the X1900XT for around $330 to speed up the Aperature work, along with the UT2004/UT3 work done during break times. Oh, forget I said that, no need for that to appear on the requisition sheet.

Graphics bonus: since all the slots are physically x16, you don't need to toss the current 6600 card. If you ever wanted 3-4 monitors (or wanted to restrict the X1900XT to one monitor to maximize VRAM) you can install the existing 6600 in another slot (preferably the x8 slot) to add additional monitors.

For the remaining $400+, save it or spend it on something else. 8 GB of RAM is plenty, no need to go higher anytime soon. If you do presently go higher, the Quad can go to 16 GB of non-ECC or ECC. They can be mixed, but installed pairs must be one type or the other.

[Kenneth]

SwiftData200 from transintl.com, which let you add 3 more hard drives into the G5.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

Maybe when the new MP comes out, they will offer a new range of v cards... maybe there will be a price/performance sweet spot in that range. The current range is (ahem) lagging. It is amazing the Apple would keep selling such an embarassingly outdtated range. It is the one area where I have no answer to the taunts of Windows -based friends. I mean how hard would it be for Apple to fix this? Sheesh!

Doubtful. Even if they release new cards for the Mac Pros, those cards won't work in the PowerMacs. For the X1900XT there is a Mac Pro version and a PowerMac version. I can't see there being enough sales to PowerMac users to justify the development.