[kenfused]

Just got a new (refurb) Mac Mini 1.83 Core Duo,
and will be adding an external HD to house my music, videos, photos.
Should I connect the drive via USB 2.0 or Firewire?
Which is REALLY faster?

[bearcatrp]

The mini has a firewire 400 port rated at 400 mbps, and usb2 ports rated at 480 mbps. The usb is faster.
Randy

[Simon]

USB2 has a peak bandwidth of 480 Mbps. FW400 has a peak bandwidth of 400 Mbps. On paper USB2 should offer better peak performance.

That said, I have yet to a single external disk that performs better over USB2 than FW400. My two external HDDs at home get about 25 MB/s over USB2 and up to 40 MB/s over FW400.

There are several reasons fo the discrepancy between peak ratings and actual performance: Large copies/moves need high sustained performance (where FW kills USB2) rather than peak performance. Drivers play a role (and Mac drivers can result in different performance than Windows or Linux drivers) and finally also the bridge chipsets are important.

In my experience FW400 has always offered better performance. USB2 OTOH is usually a tad cheaper. If you're not on a tight budget, get FW.

[peeb]

Firewire, for sure.
You will certainly not get anything like 480 with usb2 in the real world on your Mac, FW will be MUCH faster and more responsive.

[allblue]

Another advantage of FW is that if you get a second ex HD (for Time Machine for example) you can daisy-chain them which I believe you cannot do with USB.

[iREZ]

for some reason firewire just works better with macs while usb works better for pc's, go with firewire.

[Kenneth]

I would go for FireWire as well.

[.Neo]

From what I understand the problem with USB 2.0 is that it transfers information in bursts and it wastes CPU power while at it. FireWire 400/800 transfers information in a constant flow and it doesn't use CPU power. It's all being handled by the chip inside your external HD.

I decided to pay the extra money and went with a WD My Book Pro which supports USB 2.0, FireWire 400 and FireWire 800.

[shifuimam]

At the very least, get a combo case - USB 2.0 and FireWire 400. You never know when you might want to transfer data to a machine that is running Windows or Linux.

Better yet, partition the drive so that you have some FAT32-formatted space on there, so that you can transfer files between operating systems if necessary...

Also: don't buy a premade drive. Buy a good case with an Oxford FireWire chip, and get a Seagate hard drive (five-year warranty, ftw).

[bballe336]

Originally Posted by iREZ 

for some reason firewire just works better with macs while usb works better for pc's, go with firewire.

Firewire is faster when transferring large files regardless of what OS you are running. There is a reason that no one doing video editing will touch USB.

[Cold Warrior]

Another vote for FW 400 over USB 2. I use both and my fastest transfer rates always come via Firewire.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Also: don't buy a premade drive. Buy a good case with an Oxford FireWire chip, and get a Seagate hard drive (five-year warranty, ftw).

Seconded! The external hard drives with the best quality and performance are not the pre-built ones, but rather the ones you build yourself. It's easy and requires no skills other than how to use a screwdriver. Get a decent case with an Oxford FireWire chipset (avoid the cheaper ones as they can be unreliable), and you can put any internal hard drive you want in it, of which Seagate is an excellent choice due to their 5-year warranty.

[iREZ]

Originally Posted by bballe336 

Firewire is faster when transferring large files regardless of what OS you are running. There is a reason that no one doing video editing will touch USB.

this is what i was referring to "The Windows PC implementation of USB 2.0 puts the Mac to shame." Quoted from USB 2.0 versus FireWire

[kenfused]

Cool
THanks
Will go FW since my enclosure has both.

[ghporter]

The combo case idea has a lot of merit. The way USB and Firewire work are very different; USB is better at smaller transfers, while Firewire is better at streaming. Transfer a bunch of small files with both and you may see USB finishing faster; transfer a single file of the same total size, and you may see the opposite. YMMV but the basic protocols favor one or the other, so that's the way to bet.

[peeb]

On my machine, a large disc connected by USB can take about 30 seconds to come 'up' and appear on the desktop. Connecting the same drive by fw causes it to be available instantly.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by peeb 

On my machine, a large disc connected by USB can take about 30 seconds to come 'up' and appear on the desktop. Connecting the same drive by fw causes it to be available instantly.

There is a lot going on when you connect. It's possible that the Firewire driver immediately shows the drive (and maybe the contents), which may or may not be cached, while the USB driver waits to actually read the drive. Pure theory on my part, but the proof of the pudding is to try to do something with those contents. In all probability there is simply a difference in how fast the drivers access the enclosure-and of course the chipset at the enclosure end and how it reacts.

The REAL test is to see if this behavior happens on another computer, AND if it happens on a Windows computer. This is because USB drivers for Windows tend to be better optimized than Firewire drivers for Windows, while OS X Firewire drivers are better optimized than OS X USB drivers. I have a USB 2.0 + Firewire enclosure I got to stick a tray-loading DVD burner in, but I may do some tests with a hard drive to see what the difference may be; I'd do that with my iMac running OS X and then booted into XP.

[imitchellg5]

I've always gotten better results with FireWire than USB. It's faster on paper, but the reality is that FireWire is consistently faster.

[vmarks]

Firewire / USB2 combo cases, definitely.

I was doing this shopping trip yesterday. I went out and priced enclosures and bare drives, and found that the prices were the same for the drive and enclosure separately as the prices for a pre-assembled drive.

So, looking at enclosures, what I found is that there are a large number of non-fantastic enclosures. Sure, the bridge board has USB and can address IDE and SATA, or it has USB and FW and can address IDE...
but the difficulty was finding a good set of features with a good bridge board chipset, and having a case that had good shock absorbtion.

Most of them mounted the drive straight to the metal of the enclosure, or a carrier inside that mounted metal to metal. I prefer rubber or silicone bushings where possible so that the drive can absorb a little more punishment than just what the drive itself can protect itself from.

I ended up buying the western digital mybook combo interface drive. Same price as the others, but with a decent bridge board and good mounting, and good enclosure ventilation.

[iREZ]

i remember how a year or two ago buying an external drive would cost an arm and a leg as opposed to making one yourself but just a few months ago i got myself a 400gb seagate usb/firewire for a hundred bucks at frys.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Seconded! The external hard drives with the best quality and performance are not the pre-built ones, but rather the ones you build yourself. It's easy and requires no skills other than how to use a screwdriver.

I also thought that this was true, so I always put together my own external drives. But then I discovered that Other World Computing was assembling drives with the same quality components for about the same price as my "home built" external drives.

Get a "combo drive." It's a little more expensive but then you have options. When the Firewire ports on my G5 iMac died I just switched to USB until I could get the repair done.

According to the developer of the excellent program SuperDuper! Firewire is faster than USB 2.0 because Firewire allows bidirectional data transfer while USB 2.0 does not, so he recommends that SuperDuper! users connect via Firewire whenever possible.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Mojo 

I also thought that this was true, so I always put together my own external drives. But then I discovered that Other World Computing was assembling drives with the same quality components for about the same price as my "home built" external drives.

Ah, but do you get Seagate's 5-year warranty that way?

Thought not.

[iREZ]

you do if the drive you put inside the enclosure is seagate

[CharlesS]

Exactly. I was referring to the pre-built drives that OWC sells, though. If you put the drive inside the enclosure yourself, you get the 5-year warranty. If someone else puts the drive in the enclosure, you probably won't.

[Mojo]

Ah, but do you get Seagate's 5-year warranty that way?

Thought not.

Charles, you should take a minute to do a little research before making an assumption...

A quick check of the OWC Web site will answer your question: the "pre-built" drive mechanisms have the same drive warranty as the bare drives. So if you buy an OWC enclosure with a Seagate drive you get the five-year warranty. (The warranty coverage is part of the product description.)

It doesn't make any sense to have a shorter warranty just because the drive was installed in an enclosure by a company instead of the end-user.

[imitchellg5]

Most OWC enclosures have Hitachi drives though... They only have a two year warranty.

[Mojo]

The Hitachi Deskstar drives used in some enclosures have a three warranty in addition to a two year warranty from OWC, which adds up to a five year warranty. Enclosures can have Hitachi Deskstar, Seagate Barracuda, Seagate/Maxtor Maxline III and other drives; the enclosure specifications indicate which brand of drive is used. Warranty periods varied between 3 and five years on the enclosure/drive combos I checked.

[TyPod]

FireWire>USB 2.0 in my opinion.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Mojo 

The Hitachi Deskstar drives used in some enclosures have a three warranty in addition to a two year warranty from OWC, which adds up to a five year warranty. Enclosures can have Hitachi Deskstar, Seagate Barracuda, Seagate/Maxtor Maxline III and other drives; the enclosure specifications indicate which brand of drive is used. Warranty periods varied between 3 and five years on the enclosure/drive combos I checked.

Yeah, but those warranties don't start after one expires do they? So at best, you have a 3 year warranty.

[Mojo]

I spoke with OWC customer support and I was told that the warranties are consecutive. For the first two years you are covered under the OWC warranty; in fact, if you open the enclosure during that time the warranty is voided. After that the manufacturer warranty applies, so the total warranty period is two years plus the stated manufacturer warranty period.

[imitchellg5]

Really? I've never heard of that being done. Happy to know my HD will be covered for another 4 years

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Mojo 

I spoke with OWC customer support and I was told that the warranties are consecutive. For the first two years you are covered under the OWC warranty; in fact, if you open the enclosure during that time the warranty is voided. After that the manufacturer warranty applies, so the total warranty period is two years plus the stated manufacturer warranty period.

No... the hard drive manufacturer's warranty starts the day the drive is sold. The enclosure and "whole package" is warrantied by OWC for 2 years after the package is sold. So if the drive has a 3 year manufacturer's warranty, you're covered for the first two years by both and for one additional year on just the drive.

[Simon]

If you go for a combo enclosure and your Mac has FW800, I'd make sure the enclosure comes with a FW800 port. I just got a new Seagate 1 TB disk (on large transfers it does >85 MB/s over SATA) and it easily saturates FW400 - with FW800 I see about 70% better performance. I just recently saw an external enclosure that came with only FW800 ports. They include a dongle for FW400. Nice.

[ender]

My experience is very limited, but with the enclosures I have (both MacAlley) when they are connected via Firewire, the hard drives will spin down when not in use. When connected to USB, they will not. A friend has a USB only enclosure (not sure the brand), and it never spins down, either. I don't know if that's a matter of USB vs FireWire or not, but it might be a consideration if you want to extend the life of your drive.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ender 

My experience is very limited, but with the enclosures I have (both MacAlley) when they are connected via Firewire, the hard drives will spin down when not in use. When connected to USB, they will not. A friend has a USB only enclosure (not sure the brand), and it never spins down, either. I don't know if that's a matter of USB vs FireWire or not, but it might be a consideration if you want to extend the life of your drive.

Which leads to the question: which way do you believe prolongs drive life?

[ender]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Which leads to the question: which way do you believe prolongs drive life?

Fair question...if the drive is not being constantly accessed, letting it spin down when not in use should prolong life (and save a little electricity and be quieter). For example, if there is no need to access the drive during non-working/overnight hours (it's not performing backup, etc), why keep it spinning for those hours? For top quality drives, this may not be an issue (the drive in my TiVo has been spinning for a couple of years now), but it could be an issue.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ender 

Fair question...if the drive is not being constantly accessed, letting it spin down when not in use should prolong life (and save a little electricity and be quieter). For example, if there is no need to access the drive during non-working/overnight hours (it's not performing backup, etc), why keep it spinning for those hours? For top quality drives, this may not be an issue (the drive in my TiVo has been spinning for a couple of years now), but it could be an issue.

I don't know that's true. I've never had a drive fail while happily spinning along; they've all failed during startup. Steady state spinning is easy on the motor/bearings, while transient spin up (and down) is not.

[Simon]

Of course it all depends very mich on what kind of drive you use.

There are drives spec'ed for 24/7 operation that come with long MTBF and good warranties. These are the drives you can keep running forever. And actually, when they break down it's usually after they've had a cold period after an extended time of use.

Then there are the usual consumer drives that will break down some time in the forst 6 or so years of use. This is the type of drive that will benefit from spinning down. Most manufacturers will recommend this type of use, which is of course because most sold drives are of this type.

[Mojo]

No... the hard drive manufacturer's warranty starts the day the drive is sold. The enclosure and "whole package" is warrantied by OWC for 2 years after the package is sold. So if the drive has a 3 year manufacturer's warranty, you're covered for the first two years by both and for one additional year on just the drive.

Well... OWC customer support tells me that the warranties are consecutive and that is how it reads to me in the product specifications:

"In addition to OWC's Warranty, the Hitachi Deskstar mechanism inside this solution has an additional 3 years warranty direct with Hitachi." Notice that a variation of the word "additional" appears twice.

So unless you want to contact OWC and see if I was provided the wrong info by their telephone customer service I am going to leave it at that.

BTW, the drive in my Iogear external enclosure spins-down when connected via USB. I haven't noticed one way or the other with my other enclosure brand because I don't leave it on. I think spin-down is usually governed by the Energy Saver System Preference pane and not the connection mode. But whether an external drive spins-down or not may also be determined by the compatibility of the drive enclosure.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Mojo 

Well... OWC customer support tells me that the warranties are consecutive and that is how it reads to me in the product specifications:

"In addition to OWC's Warranty, the Hitachi Deskstar mechanism inside this solution has an additional 3 years warranty direct with Hitachi." Notice that a variation of the word "additional" appears twice.

So unless you want to contact OWC and see if I was provided the wrong info by their telephone customer service I am going to leave it at that.

Is that an additional 3 years of warranty or an additional warranty for 3 years? I believe it's the latter; that is, the unit (drive+enclosure) is covered for 2 years (from purchase) by OWC and the drive alone is covered for 3 years (from purchase) by Hitachi. In other words, if you call up Hitachi 4 years after you buy the drive and ask for a replacement, I think they're going to tell you to sod off regardless of what OWC is telling you.

If you have a Hitachi drive purchased in an OWC enclsoure, put the serial number into this page and tell us what the expiration date is (along with the date of purchase).

[Simon]

Regardless, if you get a good enclosure and buy a drive with a 5 year warranty you're better off in any case.