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Photocro · Dec 21, 2007, 12:12 PM

I just joined this forum and I just placed my order for a Mac Pro as this dear 3 year old Sony PC is refusing to load Nikon capture NX that I need for editing my NEF (RAW) images. It won't let me open Photo Shop either at this juncture.

I remembered a couple weeks ago the fun I used to have with a PPC and how trouble free, in comparison to the intervening PC's, it used to be. Sat down with my wife and we both agreed that a new MAC was the way to go. I don't think she was ready for the Mac Pros price but she's a wonderful person and gave the go ahead.

I was going to wait and see if the MP was going to get the Penryn upgrades but I have serious software issues and deadlines that are coming do.

The MP I ordered I ordered of the shelf, so to speak. 1 GB Quad 250 GB HDD.

I wanted to see how it performed for image editing and I need to purchase Photo Shop CS 3 and wanted to save a little cash for the moment.

Any other photogs here who can give me any heads up on upgrade configs should I need them in the future? Or, anyone for that matter that is conversant with image editing.
I was thinking I would upgrade the RAM if needed to around 4 GB's. Looking for experienced advice and am grateful for any response.

ninahagen · Dec 21, 2007, 12:49 PM

This will be a key thread for you:

http://forums.macnn.com/65/mac-pro-a...configuration/

With CS3, you will need 3GB for only photoshop, 1GB more if you want to do light multitasking with other apps, 5GB more if you want to do lots of multitasking. (presuming no video editing)

Will you be using Aperture? If so, you will need the ATI Radeon X1900XT vid card. For CS3 you won't.

Pay attention to RAM density and placement within the memory risers. Once you decide how much RAM you want, a simple question here will get a quick answer for the optimal setup.

What is your budget like, and how important is speed to you? Please answer after you have read the speed thread.

nina

Photocro · Dec 21, 2007, 03:02 PM

I did read the thread but am not any kind of computer expert although I have done all the upgrades in my PC. those consisted of optical drive replacement, HDD replacement and RAM. I checked on OWC and can afford the NetList @ 8 GB at this time. I will not be using Aperture for now. As to RAM density I am ignorant as to the meaning. A question I do have is whether I can place the 8 GB RAM along with the existing 1 GB or must I remove the 1 GB?

SierraDragon · 03:42 PM

Buy RAM only in pairs of 2-GB sized DIMMs from quality third party vendors. I use OWC: Find the latest Performance Upgrades, Firewire and USB Hard Drives, SATA, Memory, Laptop Battery, and more at OWC.
Adding 2x2 GB = 4 GB from OWC or 5 GB total is a minimum start for the apps you suggest. Prices fall so it is fine to wait to add more than that.

RAM will add on to what already exists in the box, up to a maximum of 8 slots filled, with the 1 GB from Apple taking 2 slots. What Nina means by density is not to purchase DIMMs of less than 2 GB size per slot, to avoid wasting slots. E.g. vendors may sell "8 GB RAM" that is actually 8x1 GB RAM, taking all 8 slots, not good. Buy RAM only in pairs of 2-GB sized DIMMs from quality third party vendors. If you do buy 8 GB buy it as 4x2=8 GB which will take only 4 slots, give you 9 GB RAM total, and leave 2 slots still available for the future.

Wait until you have apps that take advantage of advanced graphics before adding a graphics card. Even if you are an Aperture user like I am, wait until after Mac Expo January 15 because better cards than the X1900XT will likely become available. In fact I suggest waiting until after Mac Expo before changing anything but RAM.

-Allen Wicks
---------------------
P.S. Consider trying Aperture. IMO all DSLR photogs with adequate computer hardware should own Aperture. Working the tutorial below will demonstrate how Aperture absolutely rocks for DSLR photogs.

I strongly recommend that every DSLR photog with adequate computer hardware first spend $33 and work through the tutorial CD Apple Pro Training Series: Aperture 1.5 (Apple Pro Training) by Orlando Luna and Ben Long (Paperback - Oct 18, 2006). Have the CD prior to ordering the Aperture trial so you don't waste time of the 30 day trial. Note that the value is in the tutorial, not in using the book as a manual.

IMO a cursory examination of Aperture usually turns out to be mostly a waste of time, or leads to bad workflow habits or folks simply do not get it. Carefully working the tutorial is by far the best way to learn this new killer app category. If you do run the tutorial and like Aperture you will want to add an advanced graphics card at some point.

Photocro · 04:27 PM

Grateful for the answer and explanation. What I will do is purchase 6 GB for now (2x3) of NetList or OWC which I hear is a fantastic vendor and that will give me 7 GB. As to grapics cards I was wondering how a MacPro could have a chincy card when it cost as much as it does. the 7300 that comes with my computer should be fine for Capture NX, which I like, and PS CS 3, I would think. But then, I've been working my photography on a Sony Vaio PC for the last 3 years that tells you what I know.

I can use the 1 GB that comes with the computer and just add the (2x3) 6 GB of ram to it can't I? I had heard something about RAM in Macs having to match perfectly as to manufacturer and size. Trying to cover all my ignorance bases.

EDIT: I also shoot with the RB67 Pro SD so I get those in TIFF. Plus the F5 and the D70s as I haven't fully switched over to digital. Most of the photography I do is machinery for vineyards and my clients want the negs under certain circumstances for one to three years at which time the copyright reverts back to me. I don't know that Aperture would work for all the formats I use. Any thoughts?

mduell · 05:07 PM

You can't buy 2x3GB memory... and 3x2GB won't work (need pairs). Perhaps you're confusing it with the 6x1GB kit that OWC offers? Avoid that, per Allen's advice. You can leave the stock 2x512MB in as you add other memory; you only have to match pairs, not all modules. Once you have 4 larger modules, you'll want to move the 512MB modules to the slots further from the logic board.

The stock graphics is pretty low end, but many (most?) users don't really need a great graphics card. Adobe Studio CS3, Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio Pro/Soundtrack Pro, and many other pro apps don't really lean on the graphics card at all.

Newegg is another good place to buy memory; link for 2x2GB kits for the Mac Pro.

Photocro · Dec 21, 2007, 05:27 PM

Understood. I was looking at the 8 GB pairings and assumed that the 6 GB would be paired also. thanks for the heads up. I guess that any of the OWC RAM is just fine from what I gather?. Netlist or OWC. I really don't know. I am not going to risk ignorance with my new Mac. I need to get these questions out of the way. Thank you for taking the time to give me some help.

mduell · Dec 21, 2007, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Photocro

Understood. I was looking at the 8 GB pairings and assumed that the 6 GB would be paired also. thanks for the heads up. I guess that any of the OWC RAM is just fine from what I gather?. Netlist or OWC. I really don't know. I am not going to risk ignorance with my new Mac. I need to get these questions out of the way. Thank you for taking the time to give me some help.

Either type from OWC or Newegg is fine. I'd say buy 4GB now and see how it works for you; adding another 4 later is easy.

Photocro · Dec 21, 2007, 08:15 PM

Just bought 8. Tired of the lags and errors from my PC. I need to kick it up a notch. From OWC.

ninahagen · 11:41 PM

I would have added 4~8GB. More would be wasteful, less would hamper you. In fact, even the extra 4GB may not get used for a while. We don't know enough about your work. What are you doing, and how big are the files you work with? Do you use multiple apps at once... PS + IA for example?

8GB (plus the 1GB you have) will be enough for a very long time, and even if it is more than you need now, it will give you some future proofing. You won't need to think about it again for a long time.

You went with 4 x 2GB modules right?

That will give you 9GB total, which is huge power. Photoshop can only address 3GB max, which gives you 6GB of buffer for other apps running simultaneously. You will be more than fine.

Two things: be sure to install the 2 x 512 RAM in the proper place. If Adobe comes out with a 64-bit version of CS and you buy it, you may well make use of the extra slots you wisely saved for yourself. It will surely be able to address much more RAM.

Yeah, Sierra Dragon & Co. are right about waiting for the graphics card, but you really may not need it.

Have fun!

Nina

Photocro · Dec 22, 2007, 12:07 PM

I am a working photographer doing RAW and Tiff (6x7 negs, medium format) . Files run from 12 MB to 26 MB +. I do around 150 - 250 edits per month with around 500 - 700 images queued at a time before B/U to CD or External HDD. I do a bit of Adventure gaming when time permits and a lot of email, web maintainence and internet research for photography groups I instruct on a freelance basis. Also, the family stuff that needs to be done.

As an aside, I took the advice of folks here and ordered from OWC. I did make an error and ordered 1 GB x 8 RAM. Got hold of customer service and was so very pleasantly surprised at how little problem it was to correct to 2 GB x 4 just now. A truly unexpected and wonderful surprise at how genuinely nice this company is to work with. Also, the Rep steered me to Techworks RAM and saved me $100.00. Amazing. Being in the photography business for these many years I am not used to the kindness from suppliers.
Thanks to you all for the help and advice.

imitchellg5 · Dec 22, 2007, 02:37 PM

I think 8 Gb of RAM would be fine then, for your file size. Those aren't huge files (I mess with those sometimes on my 1.8 GHz G5 with 2Gb!). And congrats on the new Mac! You will love it!

Photocro · Dec 22, 2007, 05:25 PM

Do I leave the two 512's in the existing factory installed slots or move them to B riser or what? I watched the OWC quick time instructional video (3 times) and it seems I leave the factory install where they are. I guess its the same as a PC upgrade. Not sure.

imitchellg5 · Dec 22, 2007, 05:45 PM

Yep, you can leave them there.

Photocro · Dec 22, 2007, 06:15 PM

Well, All righty then, I think I absorbed the quicktime. Thanks so much. Now I just have to wait as the computer is on its way and so is the RAM.

Any suggestions as to what I should do while I wait? Just kidding.......

mduell · Dec 22, 2007, 07:49 PM

Put the four 2GB modules in the two slots closest to the logic board on each riser. Put the two 512MB modules on either riser, but on the same riser.

Photocro · Dec 23, 2007, 11:07 AM

Just to be absolutely sure (don't want to be sorry because I thought I completely understood and didn't) I took a look at the manual on the Apple support site ( Apple - Support - Manuals ) and checked out the DIMM replacement guide as to number of DIMM's and respective positioning on the risers. I chose the 6 DIMM position as illustrated in the PDF manual first page illustration. (4 new dimms plus the 2 existing 512 MB dimms) I leave the 512's where they are from the factory and place the 4 new DIMM's : 2 in the A riser in slots 3 and 4 and 2 in the B riser slots 1 and 2 as shown. Is this correct?

mduell · Dec 23, 2007, 11:14 AM

No, see my post above.

Photocro · 01:39 PM

OK, the logic board on the Mac is where? I think I have been looking at the part of the DIMM boards "plug in" edge as facing the logic board. Should I be looking at the finger hole edge then? Or, is there a schematic of the Mac Pro that I can look at to orient myself? Thanks for sticking with me.

Try this again: I would remove the 2-512's and set them aside from riser A. I would then install 2 of the new dimms in slots 3 an 4 nearest the gold edge of the riser card A. Same slots on riser card B and then replace the 512's in slots 1 and 2 of riser card A. Where slots 3 and 4 are farthest from me when inserting the card back in the Mac and thus, closest to the logic board and the 512's would be closest to me in slots 1 and 2 of A when replacing the riser cards back into the computer.

mduell · Dec 23, 2007, 02:13 PM

Macs call the main system board the logic board; most PCs call it the motherboard. It is the large printed circuit board that the risers plug into.

Slots 1 and 2 are the slots closest to the gold edge that plugs into the logic board. You want the larger modules in slots 1 and 2.

SierraDragon · Dec 23, 2007, 09:15 PM

Mac Pros and modern graphics apps do crave RAM so 9 GB RAM total is not overkill at today's prices for the work you are doing. Due to OS X Photoshop, even though it currently can only address 3~ GB RAM directly, shows improved performance to 8 GB RAM and beyond.

To clear up the confusion on DIMM locating: Mark's observation about locating RAM DIMMs will allow slightly more speed than leaving the DIMMs where they are and just adding the 4 new 2 GB DIMMs. However either location will functionally work, no problem. OWC's instructional demo probably does not differentiate for smaller existing DIMMs and/or is made for maximum simplicity.

-Allen Wicks

Photocro · Dec 23, 2007, 10:32 PM

Understood. The real problem for confusion was the 1 or 4 location; closer to the logic board or farther away towards the panel on the side. I thought I knew that I needed to move the 512's but the OWC video didn't make that at all clear. The last thing I wanted to do was have any uncertainty or over confidence and fry something I paid so much for.

I understand now and will proceed when everything gets to my door. I don't have the computer yet, nor the RAM, so you can see that I want the knowledge before the product. I always go through this worry. Even when buying a new camera or lens. Just me I guess. Thanks so much for your patience and willingness to help.

Photocro · Dec 24, 2007, 03:21 PM

As I look farther into this rather fascinating subject I discovered here the dual or quad DIMM set up. It seems that in some cases the computer will run faster with two matched pairs of DIMMs (two on each riser (A and B)) which may or may not (that is my question at this point) be a reason NOT to install the 2 512's. Rather, keep the 2 512's in a safe place for future use should any of the new RAM fail. Any opinions or am I misinterpreting this article?

Jesus On Cheese · Dec 24, 2007, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Photocro

As I look farther into this rather fascinating subject I discovered here the dual or quad DIMM set up. It seems that in some cases the computer will run faster with two matched pairs of DIMMs (two on each riser (A and B)) which may or may not (that is my question at this point) be a reason NOT to install the 2 512's. Rather, keep the 2 512's in a safe place for future use should any of the new RAM fail. Any opinions or am I misinterpreting this article?

Yes, this is true. Small speed gain with dual matched pairs. But, the benefits of more RAM exceed this benefit. The only circumstance I'd more 512MB sticks to a Mac Pro is when they are free. Best advice is to get the 2GB sticks for that day when you will want 16GB.

mduell · Dec 25, 2007, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Photocro

As I look farther into this rather fascinating subject I discovered here the dual or quad DIMM set up. It seems that in some cases the computer will run faster with two matched pairs of DIMMs (two on each riser (A and B)) which may or may not (that is my question at this point) be a reason NOT to install the 2 512's. Rather, keep the 2 512's in a safe place for future use should any of the new RAM fail. Any opinions or am I misinterpreting this article?

You're misunderstanding the article.

The current Xeon architecture supports two branches (which the Mac Pro physically maps to one branch per riser) of two channels each. Each channel supports up to four modules, but the Mac Pro risers only allow for two modules per channel.

So with two modules installed (on the same riser, in the slots closest to the logic board), you have dual channel performance. With four modules installed (two on each riser, in the slots closest to the logic board), you have quad channel performance; however if you put all four modules on the same card, you would only have dual channel performance. With six or eight modules installed (four and two or four and four, respectively) you have quad channel performance.

The reason to put the smaller modules in the outer slots (away from the logic board), is that those slots see slightly higher latency since they have to go through the inner slots.

Simon · Dec 26, 2007, 02:13 AM

There is a lot of information in this thread to confuse not so savvy Mac Pro users. Not every benefit is worth the trouble. If a 'speed advantage' in benchmarks gives a performnce increase within the error margin of the benchmark, it is for all practical purposes useless.

Here's the real deal: Keep it simple and just do what Apple says. Nothing more, nothing less. No worries.

Photocro · Dec 27, 2007, 06:29 PM

Interesting piece of equipment. Can't hear it running. A question for the Leopard OS and the MP..what happens to downloads when they are installed and can't be found? Did I install them or did I need to do a final save. Thunderbird and FireFox were installed and have disappeared. Interesting. I am still in PC mode and haven't had the time to READ like I should have the instruction manual.

Cold Warrior · Dec 27, 2007, 06:46 PM

You may have 'installed' them by mounting their disk images and running them from there. When you unmounted the images, the applications went with them.

Try this: mount their .DMG files by double-clicking (if you still have them. If not, you'll have to download them again). You should get disk drive icons on your Desktop (OR their windows may open, showing you Firefox and Thunderbird). Drag these applications to your Applications folder, and eject/unmount their drives. Now navigate to your Applications folder and start up the apps from there.

Another great way to quickly find and open applications is Spotlight.

Photocro · Dec 27, 2007, 07:03 PM

I figured it was ignorance. I'll give your idea a whirl. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

musicforme · Dec 27, 2007, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Photocro

I figured it was ignorance. I'll give your idea a whirl. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

Pick up a copy of The Missing Manual: Leopard Edition. I'm reading through it right now in anticipation of my future Mac Pro.

The more I read through the book, the more I can't wait to finally make the switch.