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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > What would you like to see in an Apple business workstation?

What would you like to see in an Apple business workstation? (Page 5)
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Mar 4, 2009, 11:40 AM
 
Well I'd like to, I wonder if the mods would move it to the modding section. I'm not really sure I need a quad, I was leaning toward a Core2Duo that I saw that was 3Ghz and a bit. I need to research which parts will work and what not. I'm just wondering how much better is the i7 performing at the same Ghz over the old Core procs? I haven't kept up on this stuff lately and I'm not entirely sure what's what anymore. I know now Ghz is becoming pretty near meaningless unless you're using the same family of chips.
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 11:57 AM
 
I would really like to do the same, but I don't know if I have the technical prowess to get the job done. If you choose your components properly it isn't supposed to be that hard, but in particular the software side (hacking together a set of functioning drivers) seems to be a more involved process than I feel comfortable with as an advanced end-user. I think I'll probably have to end up buying a pre-assembled Hackintosh. Hopefully Psystar will still be around when I'm in the market for one.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
I think I'll probably have to end up buying a pre-assembled Hackintosh. Hopefully Psystar will still be around when I'm in the market for one.
If you stick to hardware that is as close as possible to what Apple uses, you could probably get the EFI-X dongle and avoid much of the cat-and-mouse game being played by Apple and the hackintosh crowd... i.e. can't install the latest updates until the hackers hack it.
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 01:04 PM
 
Ick that's 500 bucks for that, that's the premium for a Mac Pro!
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Ick that's 500 bucks for that, that's the premium for a Mac Pro!
What are you talking about? Canadian dollars?

It's listed here for US$240.
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 01:57 PM
 
Hmmm 240 is still a lot...

I thought there was a reliable way to get OS X to load on PCs regardless of the software? What is Psystar doing to get these things working?
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 02:01 PM
 
The reliable way is supposedly to use that device. The other way is less than pretty, although it has gotten a bit better with some the recent developments. (There's a video on YouTube that shows the "simplified" installation process for creating an OS X boot drive for a Hackintosh - it's decidedly not that easy an operation.) Psystar has a staff that puts together a custom install of OS X and then goes through and makes Apple's updates compatible with that custom install.

If it were a breeze to do a standard OS X install on regular PC hardware, you'd see a lot more activity from Apple Legal.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Mar 4, 2009 at 02:07 PM. )

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 02:41 PM
 
That's annoying... so how does that thing actually work? Does it change an EFI module on the computer's mobo? Do I need to have it connected at all times?
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
If it were a breeze to do a standard OS X install on regular PC hardware, you'd see a lot more activity from Apple Legal.
It's not for the feint of heart... but certainly not rocket science. I'm typing this now on a Dell Latitude D630 running Leopard 10.5.6. (Company supplied computer... I tried using Windows but almost went nuts). WiFi and Bluetooth was recognized natively. Had to install a few custom Kexts to get Ethernet, Sound, and Video working but it was relatively straightforward and everything is working just fine.

I'd buy a MacBook Pro if I wasn't saving to buy a house. Until I can afford it, I'm gonna have to stick with my HackBook.
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 03:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
That's annoying... so how does that thing actually work? Does it change an EFI module on the computer's mobo? Do I need to have it connected at all times?
It's just a small device that connects to an internal USB riser, and the only thing that it does is provide a packaged emulated EFI base to run OS X on.

That's pretty impressive that your D630 Hacbook is running so well, Atheist. I've heard that modern PC laptops aren't as easy to deal with, though.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 03:44 PM
 
mmm... well maybe I'll get all the parts, try getting it working and if that doesn't pan out I'll buy the efi thingy. Nobody's really provided much feedback in my thread though
     
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Mar 4, 2009, 08:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
I thought there was a reliable way to get OS X to load on PCs regardless of the software? What is Psystar doing to get these things working?
There's a particular Gigabyte motherboard that is very well supported by the hackintosh community. Unfortunately it's also out of production so you have to go to eBay for one.
     
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Mar 6, 2009, 10:00 AM
 
I just came across this interesting data.



So apparently while the average PC has become cheaper over the years, Apple's average Mac sales price has actually increased. It's a slow trend, but it looks like roughly a $50 increase per year.
     
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Mar 6, 2009, 10:26 AM
 
Blame the aluminum shortage Joking aside, it seems Apple is stronger than anything from the PC side of the world right now.

Apple, Qualcomm Skip Layoffs
While competitors are flooding the market with cheap netbook computers, Apple is sticking to its strategy: Sell pricey, yet powerful, computers and stylish music players, as well as smart phones. The result: Apple has maintained its gross margins of 34.7%, even as other companies struggle to make a buck.
     
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Mar 6, 2009, 10:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I just came across this interesting data.



So apparently while the average PC has become cheaper over the years, Apple's average Mac sales price has actually increased. It's a slow trend, but it looks like roughly a $50 increase per year.
Makes sense. They've been steadily eliminating their lower end models for many of the lines (iMacs, PowerBook/MacBookPros, PowerMacs, Mac Pros).
     
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Mar 6, 2009, 10:57 AM
 
Apple has so much money now. You'd think the company could invest in the growth of its platform for a few years by reversing the upward price trend. It seems that Apple has yet to learn many of the lessons it failed to learn when it lost the original war for the desktop. I believe Apple could have won the original desktop war up through 1995 if it had bothered to truly compete. It chose to rest on its fat margins, instead of slaying the Windows beast back when the best that M$ had to offer was the abominable Win 3.1. In the modern era Apple's brand has never been stronger. If Apple wanted to it could make considerable market share inroads, but it chooses to go in the opposite direction, precisely when the world economy is in bad shape.

As much as I hate to admit it, it is within the realm of possibility that M$ could erase the advantages of the Mac platform, and Apple again would be left on the losing end. People say Windows 7 is very attractive. If that were to happen, it would be entirely Apple's fault for again putting short term gain ahead of long term success. It's so disturbing to me that I think I'll send feedback on it today.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Mar 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM. )

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Mar 6, 2009, 05:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
I just came across this interesting data.



So apparently while the average PC has become cheaper over the years, Apple's average Mac sales price has actually increased. It's a slow trend, but it looks like roughly a $50 increase per year.
Dell and HP are also selling considerably more units than Apple; I wonder how their top quintile compares to Macs for ASP.
     
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Mar 9, 2009, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Apple has so much money now. You'd think the company could invest in the growth of its platform for a few years by reversing the upward price trend.
Apple is one of the most successful companies of any kind today. Yet folks still want them to reverse long term strategy and jump into the intensely competitive low margin market space.

It seems that Apple has yet to learn many of the lessons it failed to learn when it lost the original war for the desktop. I believe Apple could have won the original desktop war up through 1995 if it had bothered to truly compete. It chose to rest on its fat margins, instead of slaying the Windows beast...
That issue could be argued forever. Certainly Apple made some mistakes, but IMO Apple simply had a different (actually creative) business model than MS. The MS model worked great for getting into the pants of the suits at the Chevrons and Enrons of the world; in the late 1980s it was easy to get one's computer-illiterate superiors to buy an "IBM" PC but not to buy an "Apple' which had no brand. No one bought MS, they bought IBMs etc. that coincidentally ran the DOS that MS purchased and sold through dealmaking the vendors.

In the modern era Apple's brand has never been stronger. If Apple wanted to it could make considerable market share inroads, but it chooses to go in the opposite direction, precisely when the world economy is in bad shape.
I agree this round is priced too high, but IMO Apple is just following its normal for new products skim-the-cream pricing model. Few desktop tower computers will be sold during 2009 at any price. With very low sales Apple will not get good economies of scale on 2009 production, so Apple figures it needs high prices and to charge the folks who really need the kind of power the dual-CPU MPs represent.

Then with economic improvement and new chip prices Apple can later reconfigure the line, adjust prices, etc. There certainly is room for all kinds of speed-bump-type performance improvements, including new models.

As much as I hate to admit it, it is within the realm of possibility that M$ could erase the advantages of the Mac platform, and Apple again would be left on the losing end. People say Windows 7 is very attractive. If that were to happen, it would be entirely Apple's fault for again putting short term gain ahead of long term success...
Win7 is indeed attractive - when compared to Vista and XP. However OS 10.6 will be place long before Win7 is mainstream, and I seriously doubt if Win7 will be more attractive than Snow Leopard to folks who would seriously choose between the two (most folks will stay with their current platforms just because of inertia).

-Allen Wicks
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Mar 9, 2009 at 02:36 PM. )
     
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Mar 10, 2009, 05:04 AM
 
There is nothing normal about this. And I really don't know where this nonsense comes from.

With every new iteration of the Mac Pro the base price was raised by about 9%. From $2124 (Woodcrest) to $2299 (Harpertown) to now $2499 (Nehalem). Not once has Apple later lowered these price points. It's a price hike plain and simple. And it's pushing the Mac Pro out of the desktop area and into the high-end workstation market. All the while the iMac isn't really evolving. It has remained dual-core, it has remained non-expandable, it has remained hobbled by mobile components, etc.

Instead of closing the gap, Apple is widening it. And that is why their desktop sales are tanking. They are actually falling so bad that even their very good mobile sales have lately not been able to make up for it.

Sure you can stipulate that the desktop is dead and concentrate only on mobile computing. But doing so while the desktop is still around all over the place and while they keep updating three desktop lines in their lineup makes it look like they hasven't really got a thoroughly thought out strategy. The consequence of this indecisive attitude is they're losing sales. And as a stockholder I don't like to see that.
     
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Mar 16, 2009, 05:04 PM
 
More bad news.

Mac sales for the month of February fell 16% when compared to February of 2008.

Apple will still manage to sell 2.0 to 2.2 million Macs for the combined period of January through March, which would represent yearly Mac unit growth of anywhere from -13% to -4%, or a rate that's likely to fall in line to slightly behind Wall Street's average expectations of -4% growth.
Unit "growth" will be negative. Interesting spin.
     
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Mar 16, 2009, 05:32 PM
 
I was doing more Hackintosh research today. It looks like with Boot-132 you just need to gather the particular driver set you need, put that in an ISO and then install OS X like you would normally. It seems like a relatively painless path to OS X, assuming you have the right hardware, and it would certainly be much, much cheaper than these sky-high MP prices.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Apr 23, 2009, 02:54 AM
 
Looks like the estimates were spot on.

Apple sold 2.22M Macs this quarter. That's 3% less than in the same quarter 2008. This is the first time in several years Apple has seen Mac sales actually decrease.

And it's not the economy. I'll remind everybody that the iPods are selling in a very saturated market and see the exact same bad economy, yet iPod sales have been growing, 11% actually over the year ago quarter.

It's a shame Apple didn't show numbers for desktop vs. notebook sales. And I'm sure at least somebody will try to blame this on the missing FW port on the unibody MB, but consistent with most observer reports I'm pretty certain it's Apple's desktop sales that are tanking so badly, their notebook sales just can't make up for it.

I'll say it again, either they need a new line between the iMac and the MP or they need to have a low-end MP around $1799. If they continue to refuse to budge in the desktop market I don't see why they don't just drop it and stick with their profitable notebook business.
     
 
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