[chippy]

i am hoping that the folks here can give me some advice on some HD's to add, some small newby questions, advice on a fiber channel card and a problem with the mouse being frozen and not working after the machine wakes from sleeping.

this is my first Apple/Mac. i am not very computer savy but i will try and keep up with the computer lingo as much as possible. i have spent a lot of time lately reading up on as much as i could around the net.

i just purchased a refurbished 2.8GHz/2G/320HD/2600XT with standard apple keyboard and iLife08. which was also written on the bar code label on the box..but oddly i noticed the small label on the back of the machine had some different numbers on it, even though the model and serial numbers still matched each other. i wasnt going to bother turning it on until i had figured out what HD's i needed but decided to look in the control panel devices (pc equivalent) to see what it said, it appears that it is actually a 3.2GHz/2G/320/8800GT and has the keyboard with numerical keypad and iLife 08 installed but 09 disk provided. it also has a Fiber Channel card installed!

i am not sure if or how this is something i can make use of? i would like a raid card that i notice Apple sell sometime in the future but that will have to wait quite a while as i still have a screen, software, HD's and Ram to purchase. any advice on how i can make use of this card? are they sellable? can it be made to work in a simular way as a raid card?

i will be using this computer for photo work, i use medium and large format film (such as 4''x5'' and 8''x10'') so i expect the files sizes to be very large compared to dSLR's. so programs such as CS4 web premium is what i was planning to get, with dreamweaver etc for web building, Aperture most likely unless Lightroom is better, Fotomagico (unless Photo 2 Movie is better) i want to stream music to my home sound system as well and a bunch of other general stuff i suppose.

before i get to asking about the hardware can i ask if anyone knows of a fix, and if it is common problem with the mouse pointer frozen after the machine awakes from sleep? i spent all afternoon on the phone with apple care and they had me try all manner of things but could not solve it, and told me i have to just leave it set not to sleep! not a very happy option to me..its quite frustrating!

also is there a way to press a back button on the mouse? its fiddly having to go up to the corner all the time. Also is there a way to open a link in a new page? i used to do this by pressing the center scroll button before, and now it is even more frustrating as there is no back button on the mouse. Also is there a way to actually see the time/clock somewhere small on the screen? [edit; duh i see there is a clock, top right-the clock shape on the dashboard distracted me from seeing it]

does ram from OWC sound what people would buy. how much is recommended? (as much as one can afford i guess is the simple answer!? but what would work well to start with and is it wise to purchase 4G sticks so at a later time i can add further 4G sticks and not have to waste 2G sticks.

i was thinking to use the 320HD for Operating system and programs and install another HD and make a bootable exact copy using a program i heard of SuperDuper. what size and model drive would be recommended? Also i thought to buy a third drive for photos and data and then a forth drive to make a backup copy of the Data. Does this sound like a good plan or setup/option?

I was thinking of buying 1.0TB Western Digital WD RE3 SATA I/II 3.5" Enterprise 7200RPM HDD 5yr WD Warranty but i am a bit confused if these will only work in a raid set up (they mention something about raid in the discription). do they work as normal HD's as well? do these seem like a good choice of HD? i would eventually like a raid set up as i mentioned earlier but if i can get away with out it for a some time it would probably suit me better..heck these things cost a bomb if buying everything at once hey which is one reason i went for this refurbished 8 core machine as opposed to the new model, it leaves me with money i can spend on these other items needed. i considered the new quad core as well but thought that the processing power is possibly not much different to this machine and this machine has the benifit of fitting more ram (was still a heap cheaper as well), so i hope i have made the correct choice, not that there is anything i can do about it now.

very much appreciate any help and advice on this.

cheers
Chippy

[mduell]

Originally Posted by chippy 

i just purchased a refurbished 2.8GHz/2G/320HD/2600XT with standard apple keyboard and iLife08. which was also written on the bar code label on the box..but oddly i noticed the small label on the back of the machine had some different numbers on it, even though the model and serial numbers still matched each other. i wasnt going to bother turning it on until i had figured out what HD's i needed but decided to look in the control panel devices (pc equivalent) to see what it said, it appears that it is actually a 3.2GHz/2G/320/8800GT and has the keyboard with numerical keypad and iLife 08 installed but 09 disk provided. it also has a Fiber Channel card installed!

It's not uncommon for refurbs to come with better specs than what you ordered; they usually list on the refurb page just a few base or standard models and then ship whatever they have.

Originally Posted by chippy 

i am not sure if or how this is something i can make use of? i would like a raid card that i notice Apple sell sometime in the future but that will have to wait quite a while as i still have a screen, software, HD's and Ram to purchase. any advice on how i can make use of this card? are they sellable? can it be made to work in a simular way as a raid card?

If you want a RAID card a fiber channel card does you no good except to the extent that you can sell it and use the proceeds to buy the RAID card. Looks like the MSRP for the fiber channel cards is $599 (dual channel) or $999 (quad channel).

Originally Posted by chippy 

i will be using this computer for photo work, i use medium and large format film (such as 4''x5'' and 8''x10'') so i expect the files sizes to be very large compared to dSLR's. so programs such as CS4 web premium is what i was planning to get, with dreamweaver etc for web building, Aperture most likely unless Lightroom is better, Fotomagico (unless Photo 2 Movie is better) i want to stream music to my home sound system as well and a bunch of other general stuff i suppose.

Buy a lot of RAM. Fortunately it's cheap.

Originally Posted by chippy 

does ram from OWC sound what people would buy. how much is recommended? (as much as one can afford i guess is the simple answer!? but what would work well to start with and is it wise to purchase 4G sticks so at a later time i can add further 4G sticks and not have to waste 2G sticks.

I'd buy at least 2x4GB and preferably 4x4GB to start out with. I'm not a fan of OWC, but they are a few dollars cheaper than a name brand like Mushkin from Newegg.

Originally Posted by chippy 

i was thinking to use the 320HD for Operating system and programs and install another HD and make a bootable exact copy using a program i heard of SuperDuper. what size and model drive would be recommended? Also i thought to buy a third drive for photos and data and then a forth drive to make a backup copy of the Data. Does this sound like a good plan or setup/option?

I'd use the 320GB for the OS and apps, a big drive for data, and another big drive for a proper versioned backup of both. Cloning has become popular because of the availability of tools like SuperDuper and CarbonCopyCloner but that doesn't make it a good idea. If your really need/want high availability you should be running RAID1.

Originally Posted by chippy 

I was thinking of buying 1.0TB Western Digital WD RE3 SATA I/II 3.5" Enterprise 7200RPM HDD 5yr WD Warranty but i am a bit confused if these will only work in a raid set up (they mention something about raid in the discription). do they work as normal HD's as well? do these seem like a good choice of HD?

Yes, they'll work in non-RAID setups. I'd recommend getting the Hitachi instead for their awesome IO performance.

[bearcatrp]

Lucky dog you. Wish apple would have sent me your setup when I got my 2.8 refurb a few months back. I would hang on to the fiber card unless you need the bucks. Might come in handy latter. My mouse does stick for a few seconds after a wake up. I move the mouse around a click it a few times. To open a link in a new page while browsing, you will have to set up safari in the preferences. Works good. I have a couple of hitachi 1TB drives and have zero problems with them. Suggest at least 3 drives, OS, scratch, and backup. for memory, go to OWC and purchase 8GB ram (2 four gig sticks). 10 gigs total should be sufficient. Watch your page ins/outs to see if your having allot of page outs (look at activity monitor-system memory). I have 10GB and no problems editing video. Enjoy, you have an awesome machine.

[chippy]

Originally Posted by mduell 

If you want a RAID card a fiber channel card does you no good except to the extent that you can sell it and use the proceeds to buy the RAID card. Looks like the MSRP for the fiber channel cards is $599 (dual channel) or $999 (quad channel).

sell it on *bay or something i suppose, do people actually buy these fiber channel cards second hand?

Originally Posted by mduell 

I'd buy at least 2x4GB and preferably 4x4GB to start out with. I'm not a fan of OWC, but they are a few dollars cheaper than a name brand like Mushkin from Newegg.

Thanks mduell for your answers. so it would seem, all RAM is not made equal! I am down in Australia and i found some Micron branded RAM available here (saves on freight costs if i can get local-but some things here are too exspensive before shipping costs so it works out better to ship), is Micron brand any good?
http://www.macfixit.com.au/shop/inde...;productId=248 it costs A$400 2X4G delivered (US$275). the OWC worked out slightly cheaper (assuming it wouldnt need to be returned for any reason), and for 2G sticks which i originaly started looking at OWC was a bigger saving, i had read pages referring to OWC but none at this place so i assumed that OWC was good. cheers for the tips though

Originally Posted by mduell 

I'd use the 320GB for the OS and apps, a big drive for data, and another big drive for a proper versioned backup of both. Cloning has become popular because of the availability of tools like SuperDuper and CarbonCopyCloner but that doesn't make it a good idea. If your really need/want high availability you should be running RAID1.

Perhaps you can advise me further (straighten me out so to speak!) as I am not sure a RAID1 set up would suit me for backing up. the reason i want to copy the OS and apps is to have a bootable copy incase of HD failure (which RAID1 would solve), but also incase of downloading a virus, installing a problem program that mucks up the OS or a few other things that can go wrong and muck up the OS. if i used a RAID1 then those same problems would be installed in the backup. So many times in the past i have to had the OS and programs reinstalled which is a royal pain, not to mention getting all the key codes reset again (which sometimes involved making phone calls and explaining why i need new key code) , cost and down time is up to a week. So my thinking was is if i had a copy of the OS (perhaps a few) then i could run off a copy made a week or two before, before whatever problem arrived. perhaps downtime is then measured in hours and no cost involved paying a tech .

I liked the idea of RAID (as a strip i believe) because from what i read it may significantly improve performance (read and write times of large files)?
does this further information cause you to alter your advice on a good workable set up?

Originally Posted by mduell 

Yes, they'll work in non-RAID setups. I'd recommend getting the Hitachi instead for their awesome IO performance.

that is certainly a much cheaper HD! than the enterprise WD HD. and it performs better!? it seems to have 16 cache against 32 for the WD.

cheers,

[chippy]

Originally Posted by bearcatrp 

Lucky dog you. Wish apple would have sent me your setup when I got my 2.8 refurb a few months back. I would hang on to the fiber card unless you need the bucks. Might come in handy latter. My mouse does stick for a few seconds after a wake up. I move the mouse around a click it a few times. To open a link in a new page while browsing, you will have to set up safari in the preferences. Works good. I have a couple of hitachi 1TB drives and have zero problems with them. Suggest at least 3 drives, OS, scratch, and backup. for memory, go to OWC and purchase 8GB ram (2 four gig sticks). 10 gigs total should be sufficient. Watch your page ins/outs to see if your having allot of page outs (look at activity monitor-system memory). I have 10GB and no problems editing video. Enjoy, you have an awesome machine.

yeah bearcatrp, i certainly was pleasantly surprised, it arrived in super quick time too, i ordered it in the afternoon and first thing next morning it was here from across the other side of the country. the mouse freezing took the enjoyment out of it, mine doesnt come unstuck though, well it did once or twice out of perhaps 50+ tries, after quite some time though, not a few seconds.

when you say 3 drives; OS and backup i understand but scratch? do you mean programs/applications (you are missing that)...i have seen the term scratch used around a little bit. i dont quite understand how one makes a drive just for scratch--its some kind of temp drive i think?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by chippy 

sell it on *bay or something i suppose, do people actually buy these fiber channel cards second hand?

Yes, although likely at a significant discount from MSRP.

Originally Posted by chippy 

Thanks mduell for your answers. so it would seem, all RAM is not made equal! I am down in Australia and i found some Micron branded RAM available here (saves on freight costs if i can get local-but some things here are too exspensive before shipping costs so it works out better to ship), is Micron brand any good?
http://www.macfixit.com.au/shop/inde...;productId=248 it costs A$400 2X4G delivered (US$275). the OWC worked out slightly cheaper (assuming it wouldnt need to be returned for any reason), and for 2G sticks which i originaly started looking at OWC was a bigger saving, i had read pages referring to OWC but none at this place so i assumed that OWC was good. cheers for the tips though

Micron is fine and buying locally makes sense.

Originally Posted by chippy 

Perhaps you can advise me further (straighten me out so to speak!) as I am not sure a RAID1 set up would suit me for backing up. the reason i want to copy the OS and apps is to have a bootable copy incase of HD failure (which RAID1 would solve), but also incase of downloading a virus, installing a problem program that mucks up the OS or a few other things that can go wrong and muck up the OS. if i used a RAID1 then those same problems would be installed in the backup. So many times in the past i have to had the OS and programs reinstalled which is a royal pain, not to mention getting all the key codes reset again (which sometimes involved making phone calls and explaining why i need new key code) , cost and down time is up to a week. So my thinking was is if i had a copy of the OS (perhaps a few) then i could run off a copy made a week or two before, before whatever problem arrived. perhaps downtime is then measured in hours and no cost involved paying a tech .

I liked the idea of RAID (as a strip i believe) because from what i read it may significantly improve performance (read and write times of large files)?
does this further information cause you to alter your advice on a good workable set up?

RAID1 (mirroring) is not a backup, and neither is cloning. Cloning suffers from the same vulnerability to malware or corruption that mirroring has. When you start talking about having multiple clones, you're reinventing the versioned backup, poorly. Use Time Machine for backups. If you ever do need to recover it will take you about an hour to reinstall the OS and update it, and about another hour to restore from the last known good backup (before the malware/corruption occured).
RAID0 (striping) improves transfer performance; it's generally not worth the hassle for the work you've described. More memory (which the OS will use to cache reads) or high speed disks will probably be more effective for your kind of work.

How much disk space do you need now and how fast is it growing? Terabytes are great because they're cheap, but if you're at 500GB today growing 40GB/mo, then you should probably be looking at the shiny new 2TB drives.

Originally Posted by chippy 

that is certainly a much cheaper HD! than the enterprise WD HD. and it performs better!? it seems to have 16 cache against 32 for the WD.

Hard drive cache is largely unimportant. I don't know why people are always drawn to it, I guess it's an easy thing to compare. See benchmarks like the ones here for performance where it matters. Enterpriseyness for drives is generally focused on duty cycle; you care if your drives are banging away 24/7.

Originally Posted by chippy 

when you say 3 drives; OS and backup i understand but scratch? do you mean programs/applications (you are missing that)...i have seen the term scratch used around a little bit. i dont quite understand how one makes a drive just for scratch--its some kind of temp drive i think?

"Scratch" is a drive used for application memory swapping; when your working data set won't fit in RAM and you have to move some of it off to disk. More of an issue for digital video (where you could be dealing with 100GB of footage) than digital photography (where you can fit just about everything in memory) these days.

[chippy]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Micron is fine and buying locally makes sense.

actually that link earlier was only for 2G sticks so it wasnt very cheap at all, i did manage to stumble across a place, RamCity here in Oz, with micron, that pretty much matched OWC price for 4G sticks so i have 16G on the way-it was cheaper getting the extra

Originally Posted by mduell 

RAID1 (mirroring) is not a backup, and neither is cloning. Cloning suffers from the same vulnerability to malware or corruption that mirroring has. When you start talking about having multiple clones, you're reinventing the versioned backup, poorly. Use Time Machine for backups. If you ever do need to recover it will take you about an hour to reinstall the OS and update it, and about another hour to restore from the last known good backup (before the malware/corruption occured).

i have been mulling this over for a little while now, and while i see what you mean about using time machine and the proceedure for reinstalling is relatively painless--a few hours (does it copy key codes for software?). i still cant get my head around why cloning (superduper) is not a good option. if, say, i installed malware or the OS was corrupted, but i had already cloned the OS, say each week, and had 4 copies over a month, couldnt i just go back a week or two and use that copy on the other drive and then i suppose i would have to reformat the corrupted drive and then use that to copy to in future?

Originally Posted by mduell 

How much disk space do you need now and how fast is it growing? Terabytes are great because they're cheap, but if you're at 500GB today growing 40GB/mo, then you should probably be looking at the shiny new 2TB drives.

Again, this a difficult question for me to answer, i have been thinking about it but really i dont know yet. i am coming from doing things photo wise the old fashioned wet darkroom way and have no idea how much storage i will need, but i thought to start with at least 1TB drives, i have only seen one 2TB drive and i cant remember where now, so i am not sure what they cost. heck on my previous machine i only had 80G and only had it half full. however i wasnt using it for photo work. one thought i had was because i am using MF & LF film, if storing the large files becomes cost prohibitive then i could just delete them from the drive because i still have the original negative to reload if i have too

Originally Posted by mduell 

Hard drive cache is largely unimportant. I don't know why people are always drawn to it, I guess it's an easy thing to compare.

its just a number to me, so i assume 32 must be better than 16, just like no doubt 16 is better than 8 or 4 or whatever the earlier drives must have been

Originally Posted by mduell 

Enterpriseyness for drives is generally focused on duty cycle; you care if your drives are banging away 24/7.

oh, ok, so they are built to be more reliable i guess (anything with enterprise written on them?) just as fast? picking a good, fast hard drive seems to be getting more confusing the more i look at them! someone suggested to me yesterday samsung at only around $160AU but i think that was based on price so i am not sure on the speed or quality

[bearcatrp]

I have always cloned my hard drive. Nice thing about macs is you can boot off your clone and keep on trucking. Never had a problem with this. Once I clone, i'll run repair disk and permissions to insure its in working order. With 16gb memory, try without raid and see if things are working for you. That smokin machine you have will definately fly. I think you would be happy with hitatchi 1TB drives. Never have had a problem. I have 2. Again, congrats on a nice machine.