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unixphreakg3 · Dec 14, 2009, 07:06 AM

Ok, for starters please don't tell me to get a new Intel Mac Pro (I don't need one) I have Intel Macs and I want a Quad G5 that is the fastest it can be. So with that what are the best ram, hard drives etc. for this beast? Can I get ram with lower latency better than CAS 4, does this beast only have 1.5GB/s SATA II or 3GB/s? Can I get a SATA PCI-E card to take advantage of the 3-drive caddy they have to the G5? I know for the video card the best I can get is to flash a PC 7800GTX or a X1900 Mac Edition from ATI.

Also any tips for ultimate reliability? Example - Liquid cooling system with anti conductive fluid etc.

Any info will help and please don't flame with with the Intel propaganda.

I just want to have a G5 Quad that is the fastest possible.

Thank you in advance.

imitchellg5 · Dec 14, 2009, 09:59 AM

Why? Unless you're running apps that absolutely won't work under Snow Leopard, there is no reason at all to do this.

unixphreakg3 · Dec 14, 2009, 11:24 AM

you are banned form this thread since you cannot read the first sentence. I said I only want information and not advice on getting a new mac I have one already and I want the fastest G5 Quad setup. Don't ask why I just want to do it. If you ask people to not do something someone always does. can't stop human stupidity.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sek929 · Dec 14, 2009, 11:49 AM

They already have liquid cooling and that cooling system isn't renowned for its reliability.

Plus, you have to expect people are going to be perplexed by your request. You're asking about having an 'ultimate' setup that can be bested by a $400 Quad-Core Dell. When you ask for advice, you get it.

imitchellg5 · 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by unixphreakg3

you are banned form this thread since you cannot read the first sentence. I said I only want information and not advice on getting a new mac I have one already and I want the fastest G5 Quad setup. Don't ask why I just want to do it. If you ask people to not do something someone always does. can't stop human stupidity.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did I suggest anything about an Intel Mac? No. Did I even suggest getting a new Mac? No. I'm sorry but it's a pointless idea under pretty much every circumstance, so I was wondering why you need to do this. And yes, I'm aware that you said not to ask why. But I did. Sorry.

angelmb · Dec 14, 2009, 01:05 PM

Thread looks like straight from a Mad Men client meeting, characters as follows:

unixphreakg3 - some big client
imitchellg5 - Pete Campbell
sek929 - Don Draper

As for the thread itself, a friend of me has a G5 Quad, told me RAM for such Mac is more expensive right now than what it was two or three months ago.

CharlesS · Dec 14, 2009, 01:22 PM

He probably needs to run Classic or something.

Anyway, I think the best answer to your question would be to link you to this page, which has all the specs for the Quad G5. Unfortunately, I would have to second the concerns about the liquid cooling — it will severely shorten the life of the machine, and since the machine will already be somewhat old at the time you buy it, it could die very shortly after you get it. So my best advice would be to downgrade to this model instead in order to get greater reliability, but it is of course your call in the end.

reader50 · 02:51 PM

The internal SATA bus is SATA-1, limited to 150 MB/s. It handles SATA-2 drives just fine, which are not yet saturating a SATA-1 bus. A solid-state drive can go higher than the internal bus. The internal connectors do not support port multipliers (that came with the SATA2 spec).

The optical drive runs off an ATA-100 bus, which does two drives, though you have to swap the cable. Several HighPoint RocketRAID cards work in it, however I don't believe HighPoint ever released a bootable card for the G5. Avoid the RocketRAID 230x and 231x cards, they contain a firmware bug that affects G5s, which HighPoint refuses to fix. Symptoms are that they will peg 1 CPU core at 100% for no reason.

The FirmTEK SE2E (PCIe x1) and Firmtek 2ME4E (PCIe x4) are the only SATA2 cards I know of that will boot a PCIe G5.

FirmTEK SATA2 SE2E - PCIe x1, 2 eSATA ports, PM supported (boots G5, but not advertised)
FirmTEK SeriTek 2ME4E - PCIe x4, 4 eSATA ports, PM supported, bootability advertised

You're right about the video cards - even the flashing community hasn't managed to come up with anything faster than the 7800 or X1900 cards.

angelmb's friend is right about the RAM. I grabbed some 4 GB pairs of Kensington ECC RAM early this year, they were about $40 per pair from newegg. Today, that module is $100.

mduell · 08:11 PM

Faster RAM won't help. Max out the memory capacity.

For hard drives, Intel X25-M or X25-E. Don't worry that you'll be saturated for bulk transfers, the times when you're hurting for performance are probably random access.

Originally Posted by unixphreakg3

1.5GB/s SATA II or 3GB/s

Originally Posted by reader50

SATA-1 ... SATA-2 ... SATA-1 ... SATA2 ... SATA2 ... SATA2 ... SATA2

Please, I beg you, stop this madness. It's 1.5Gb/s SATA or 3.0Gb/s SATA. SATA II was people!

unixphreakg3 · Dec 14, 2009, 04:19 PM

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Some people are really just tooooooooooooooooo focused to even care to answer questions that are this pointed, I am not looking for advice about something other than the G5 in question. I really thank everyone that has given me some meaning full advice, but some of you others I think just want to tell me what you would get.

I asked for some information, whether or not is can be "Bested by an $X.XX Dell or what ever is irrelevant, I don't need to run Classic or anything else.

Also I have a big clue what cools the G5, my question was any reliability tips for the cooling system itself you know anti corrosive fluid etc. not that I would replace the whole damn system that came with it.

Again, thank you to the folks that provided meaningful information.

imitchellg5 · 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by unixphreakg3

does this beast only have 1.5GB/s SATA II or 3GB/s?

Well, since SATA II was a committee, no it doesn't. Still don't see the point of any of this, but whatever.

I don't see what you mean by anti-corrosive, because anything that you put in their is probably going to eventually go wrong, save maybe water, which obviously would be pointless. I don't see how anything that a user could do would lengthen the life.

unixphreakg3 · Dec 14, 2009, 05:14 PM

Well I think I asked for answers to my questions, not to have someone piggyback on another posters synopsis of my techno knowledge. So imichelleg5 quit nitpicking and contribute to the answers that mean something and quit wasting bandwidth.

The point is I want the fastest G5 I could give a **** less if the "Dell" could beat it or any other stupid **** like that, I just asked a question and got peoples wish list instead. I was just wanting answers related to my question its not your G5 is it? So what the **** is it to you that this is pointless? Go the **** home and go figure a reason for your self if there is one. My reason is to spend my money on a ****ing G5 and if I want to make it as fast as I can then I can. I just wanted to ask the help of Mac heads and I get the ****ing peanut gallery responses.

Get out of your computer caves for a little bit and get some lives.

Again I am very happy and glad for the positive information that the majority of people provided to me, but I will ask no more of this crowd.

Enjoy your forum.

imitchellg5 · Dec 14, 2009, 05:16 PM

Dude. Chill. You asked for advice, you've received it.

Also, I am at home.

unixphreakg3 · Dec 14, 2009, 05:18 PM

Yes I did ask and no I did not, you did not give anything of the sort, imichelleg5. Others gave alot of information, but you lad gave **** for anything but opinion.

imitchellg5 · Dec 14, 2009, 05:22 PM

ALL I was saying is that if you fool around with the cooling system, it WILL eventually go bad in the same manner that the OEM setup would. How is that an opinion?

sek929 · Dec 14, 2009, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by unixphreakg3

<snip>

Calm down there, you posted a question on a web board, you have to expect people are going to respond in any manner of ways. Throwing a tantrum about it while ignoring at least three solid posts about the exact technical information you requested is silly.

I know it's terrible to sift through the hundreds of posts in this thread alone, but maybe just pay attention to the people giving you the advice you came for.

cgc · Dec 14, 2009, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by unixphreakg3

Well I think I asked for answers to my questions, not to have someone piggyback on another posters synopsis of my techno knowledge. So imichelleg5 quit nitpicking and contribute to the answers that mean something and quit wasting bandwidth.

The point is I want the fastest G5 I could give a **** less if the "Dell" could beat it or any other stupid **** like that, I just asked a question and got peoples wish list instead. I was just wanting answers related to my question its not your G5 is it? So what the **** is it to you that this is pointless? Go the **** home and go figure a reason for your self if there is one. My reason is to spend my money on a ****ing G5 and if I want to make it as fast as I can then I can. I just wanted to ask the help of Mac heads and I get the ****ing peanut gallery responses.

Get out of your computer caves for a little bit and get some lives.

Again I am very happy and glad for the positive information that the majority of people provided to me, but I will ask no more of this crowd.

Enjoy your forum.

If you would like to get constructive help you should show some respect and not be so short tempered. NEXT!!!

ghporter · Dec 14, 2009, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by unixphreakg3

Yes I did ask and no I did not, you did not give anything of the sort, imichelleg5. Others gave alot of information, but you lad gave **** for anything but opinion.

Your attitude is unhelpful, condescending, and unwarranted. People are giving you advice based on their experience and yes their opinions. That's what advice is. If you don't like it, don't follow it. But being rude is not the way to get information closer to what you're looking for, though it can get you an infraction rather quickly.

If you can calmly state specifics about what you're looking for without flying off the handle about how people's opinions don't matter, then you can probably provide enough clues to allow others to give you information you find relevant.

reader50 · Dec 14, 2009, 07:21 PM

Reliability:

Nearly everything to do with the cooling system is variable speed, so the G5 can be as quiet as possible at any given time. That might apply to the cooling pump as well. So I'd suggest pulling the front fan assembly, and thoroughly vacuum the radiator with a soft-brush vacuum head. You may need to use a paper clip with bent end to fish some of the stubborn dust out. Be very careful if you do that - punctures are bad business. The clearer the radiator is, the less stress there may be on the cooling system.

Pull the video card and clean it. If it has a fan housing (like the 7800) use compressed air to blow dust out of the housing and heat exchanger - you can't get the housing off without pulling the heatsink off too. The housing screws on the 7800 are on the lower side, facing the card.

The power supply is built into the 'basement' of the G5 case. It's a bear to get in there, you have to pull most everything first. Instead, try using compressed air to blow it out. Go both ways, lots of different angles.

Hard drives: how many did you want to pack in? You can get up to:

2 in the internal SATA bays
3 ahead of the CPUs in unused front space
1 atop the optical drive
- or -
4 in the optical space, if you pull the optical drive. Requires a special caddy.
2 in unused PCI bay space, using a replacement door panel. (G5 Jam)

I've heard of people going up to 10 drives in early G5s. They had some power problems, which shouldn't bother you - the Quad has a 1000w power supply. In theory, you could get up to 11 internal. You'd need some port multiplier boards (about $70 each - not sure where they'd fit) and/or at least 2 PCIe SATA cards to drive the extra 9 hard drives.

For my own Quad, I got tired of trying to fit drives into odd locations. Or the noise from the fans running higher to cool all the extra hardware. I went with an external port multiplier enclosure, and can add 3 more for up to 20 external drives. More if I added more eSATA cards.

mduell · Dec 14, 2009, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

If you can calmly state specifics about what you're looking for without flying off the handle about how people's opinions don't matter, then you can probably provide enough clues to allow others to give you information you find relevant.

Let's start with his original post:

"Ok, for starters please don't tell me to get a new Intel Mac Pro"
"I want a Quad G5 that is the fastest it can be."
"So with that what are the best ram, hard drives etc. for this beast?"
"Can I get ram with lower latency better than CAS 4, does this beast only have 1.5GB/s SATA II or 3GB/s?"
"Can I get a SATA PCI-E card to take advantage of the 3-drive caddy they have to the G5?"
"Also any tips for ultimate reliability? Example - Liquid cooling system with anti conductive fluid etc."

You want him to be more specific?

The problems in this thread lie with the folks trying to hijack the thread with Mac Pros and Dells, not the OP.

CharlesS · Dec 14, 2009, 08:49 PM

The thing is, all those questions have already been answered in this thread...

ghporter · Dec 14, 2009, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Let's start with his original post:

"Ok, for starters please don't tell me to get a new Intel Mac Pro"
"I want a Quad G5 that is the fastest it can be."
"So with that what are the best ram, hard drives etc. for this beast?"
"Can I get ram with lower latency better than CAS 4, does this beast only have 1.5GB/s SATA II or 3GB/s?"
"Can I get a SATA PCI-E card to take advantage of the 3-drive caddy they have to the G5?"
"Also any tips for ultimate reliability? Example - Liquid cooling system with anti conductive fluid etc."

You want him to be more specific?

The problems in this thread lie with the folks trying to hijack the thread with Mac Pros and Dells, not the OP.

The "calmly" part was lacking in the OP's posts, especially when others posted "why" questions (not hijacks and derails, just "why?"). Reader50 answered the why question nicely right after my post above, though the OP didn't. Courtesy goes a long way, as does the lack of it. A simple "oh that's nice but I want..." rather than telling people to get bent would have gotten him a lot better information faster. And I don't think anyone really suggested he get a new Intel MP or a Dell, though there were posts about how much faster these machines could be. Plus I get testy when someone not on the staff says "you're banned from..." anything around here...

I particularly like how the G5s could handle so many different drives; you could make a super machine much like a dedicated server out of one with the right drives.

EndlessMac · Dec 14, 2009, 11:05 PM

The OP definitely had a rude attitude which is why I refuse to help...

Veltliner · Dec 15, 2009, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Why? Unless you're running apps that absolutely won't work under Snow Leopard, there is no reason at all to do this.

Exactly!

Doc HM · Dec 15, 2009, 04:26 PM

In a community you have to expect interest in your posts. So the OP made it clear he didn't want to consider an Intel Mac, fine. So, he made it clear he wanted the ultimate G5, fine. But don't expect people to help you out with info and not be curious. You may have a great reason for wanting what on the surface appears to be an odd request, maybe the OP just plain hates Intel, maybe he has this really cool idea. Whatever. In a community you have to expect some interest back in return for information. Which was freely given. Quite frankly I'm surprised this thread has gone as well as it has for him. Perhaps he should visit the lounge.

olePigeon · Dec 16, 2009, 02:42 PM

Your best bet is eBay or Craig's List if you're looking to buy one. Otherwise you can check apple-history.com for any specifics on the computer, then hit NewEgg.com for the most reasonably priced, but best item you can find that fits those specifications.

CharlesS · Dec 16, 2009, 02:46 PM

apple-history.com has inaccuracies on it. A better source is everymac.com.

Todd Madson · 07:44 AM

Here's the deal (being a guy who just spent a couple hundred bucks improving the video in his G5).
Okay drives have been covered a bit above.

Ram: update: I'm corrected in that the G5 Quad uses a different style ram than my dual AGP G5 - redacted.

Video? Nvidia GeForce 7800GS SC (or variant) from old-macs.com.
I noticed a HUGE increase in framerate for opengl with this card. Huge.
Notice that this whole AGP to PCI express migration caused the whole aftermarket AGP flashing scene
to fragment and dissappear from what I can see. It's still there though.

So far as I am aware, this card is about 20-25% faster than the ATI Radeon X850XT (of which there were
damn few that you could actually buy). And a little bit faster yet than the more commonly available
ATI Radeon X800XT.

Here's my old ATI Radeon 9600XT at my preferred operating resolution:

Here is the performance of the 7800GS:

At lower resolution it's faster yet and at 640x480 the first 3 or 4 OpenGL types were getting framerates
around 4000 fps.

You get the picture.

This card is, to my knowledge the only card that allows G5 Macs to view youtube HD video.

OK performance:
-Make sure energy saver options is set for processor performance to "highest".
-Install Chud Tools and insure "Allow Nap" is unchecked.

Any questions?

CharlesS · Dec 16, 2009, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

Ram: my understanding is there ARE two gigabyte PC3200 ram sticks out there - they are basically marketed and designed for servers and you will not find them in consumer oriented websites but they are out there. You could break the eight gigabyte barrier this way. I did searching for this and found that these were VERY expensive (I was paying $30 a stick two summers ago for Corsair 1 gig sticks, the 2 gig PC3200 sticks required were around $200 per stick at the time). Your mileage may vary.

Crucial's selling 2 GB modules for the quad G5 for about $55 each.

Newegg has the same thing, it seems, for $38, but it's currently sold out. Maybe if you're willing to wait a bit, you can get some cheap RAM.

insert_coin · Dec 17, 2009, 10:30 AM

MAD SCIENCE:
a GeForce 7800 GTX PCIe card
for the Quad-Core G5 Power Mac

Link.

rhipper · Mar 16, 2010, 09:53 AM

I have new in sealed APPLE box an unused, unregistered G5 QUAD ULTIMATE (Power PC). It was bought as a spare to the one I am using. I already have 15 Macs (professional Commercial Photographer in NYC.) It is available and would ship from my home in NJ. $3988.00 (what I paid) plus shipping from NJ.

sek929 · Mar 16, 2010, 11:24 AM

You can't possibly still think 4 grand for that computer is a fair price?

rhipper · Mar 16, 2010, 11:42 AM

The market will bear what the market will bear. I do not need to sell it. I am however, asking exactly what I paid for it. It is still sitting in it's sealed box. The only other one like it in a box just sold for $5500.00 in California. Go figure...

rhipper · Mar 16, 2010, 11:45 AM

FYI: Nikon Scan & most Nikon & Canon software run TERRIBLY on Intel machines...

sek929 · Mar 16, 2010, 12:09 PM

Fair enough, but just because it's sealed in the box doesn't mean it's worth the same as what you paid for it years and years ago. I get that you don't need to sell it, but it's not like you'll be able to wait 10 years and still sell it for 4 grand, eventually it'll be worth as much as a monster 4k dollar PowerMac G4 is right now, which is nothing.

Buying an obsolete PPC Mac for $5500 is ludicrous, that person wasted their money big time.

macaddict0001 · Mar 16, 2010, 08:38 PM

I bet a sealed in box TAM would sell for ten grand, maybe even a Lisa. An original Apple would probably sell for a fortune as well. It's the fastest PPC mac ever sold, and that makes it special.

imitchellg5 · Mar 16, 2010, 08:50 PM

One day I could see a collector's market... but not yet.

sek929 · Mar 17, 2010, 01:06 PM

The TAM was a one-off machine, and the Lisa is a historic computer.

The PowerMac Dual G5 shares a case design with earlier G5s and Mac Pros, there is nothing special or collectible about it. The G4 Cube is a far more interesting machine and I get one for 200 bucks.

I know the things we own sometimes have a way of retaining their value in our eyes, but I'll bet money that PowerMac Dual G5s never become collectible. They made a ton of them and they had no visual difference from several other models.

mduell · Mar 17, 2010, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by rhipper

FYI: Nikon Scan & most Nikon & Canon software run TERRIBLY on Intel machines...

Haven't they been updated to Universal Binaries in the last couple years?

rhipper · Mar 17, 2010, 09:33 PM

Nikon Scan 4.02 still runs through Rosetta, apparently they do not sell enough of the high end scanners to justify rewriting the entire software package. Nikon camera software has always been an OS generation behind, and most Canon shooters are spending big bucks (~$1-2K) for Capture One software which runs on Intel machines. Some Power-PC Models are more valuable to working professionals in the imaging industry because they work better than the current Intel models with the software. The value of a machine is with the beholder...IF you make a living with your Mac like I do, the model doesn't matter, the value is in the functionality and in being able to produce your art, not whatever the current model or latest Mac version is. When you've established a workflow with your peripherals, i.e. camera, scanner, film, monitor, profiles, printers, a machine that interfaces and completes the function without additional difficulty is worth the price, especially since the newer machines will not run the software smoothly and as seamlessly as the Power-PC's.

rhipper · Mar 17, 2010, 09:42 PM

BTW: When I offered the G5 Quad Ultimate, I am NOT stating its COLLECTIBLE, it's FUNCTIONAL with certain professional photographic and design software I use in my commercial photography business. I have eight G5's and the Quad Ultimate is a ripper for my software programs, especially coupled to Cintiq retouching Monitors and the like. I don't give a ***** about the ethereal "collectability" of a machine. If it works and does the job that's required of it, it has value, period. The G5 Quad Ultimate is, right now, by our actual in-studio testing in REAL LIFE, only about 20% slower than the current Power Mac Intel machines for common tasks, i.e. rendering images, etc. The problem is programs like Photoslop do not fully utilize available RAM and no amount of processor power will compensate for that issue.

imitchellg5 · Mar 17, 2010, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by rhipper

I don't give a ***** about the ethereal "collectability" of a machine. If it works and does the job that's required of it, it has value, period. The G5 Quad Ultimate is, right now, by our actual in-studio testing in REAL LIFE, only about 20% slower than the current Power Mac Intel machines for common tasks, i.e. rendering images, etc.

Then if you don't care about "collectibility" and only doing the job that's required of it, then doesn't a $2,499 Mac Pro work just fine? Paying twice as much, for "20% slower" (I'm guessing for some tasks probably 80% slower, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) makes no economic sense at all. It's a good thing you don't NEED to sell it...

rhipper · Mar 17, 2010, 10:48 PM

You apparently missed my MAJOR point: There are certain imaging and graphics software that do not run smoothly on Intel machines and are substantially slower or crash with Intel machines. This software has never been fully updated to Universal Binary and relies on Rosetta for operation, hence it is slower and unstable on Intel Macs. I only offered the speed comparison as to tasks that would be common to both the current machines and the G5 Power-PC Quad Ultimate such as Photoslop from Adobe which limits RAM usage, as "speed" in my business is quite irrelevant for our file sizes reach into the GB range, and no machine can be considered "fast" at those levels. For example, Nikon Scan will NOT run on Intel very well, crashes extensively on Leopard and will just not function with Snow Leopard. This would render your ~$2700.00 Nikon Coolscan 9000ED into a paperweight, and make your Greytag-MacBeth calibrator system useless (after the $4500.00 expense.) I make a living with my Macs and its the ability to use the software that is integrated into my workflow, and that software happens to run on PPC machines and not on Mactels. You obviously do not comprehend the "sea change" that occurred within my industry when Apple went from PPC to Intel. We're not talking G4 vs. G5 or Panther vs. Tiger; the fundamentals of the machine changed with Universal Binary. Not every equipment manufacturer sought to keep up; there were already hundreds of thousands of users already out there and most ad agencies are at least 3~4 generations behind in their systems because they are calibrated for their output to printers, publishers, etc. They don't have the IT manpower to upgrade every six to twelve months. A lot of agencies are on G4's yet since they have 200 users for a particular software. Enough lecturing, I have to cope with the real world of business, not computer trends. The best-selling image I had for several years recently was made with a 1959 Nikon F and ancient 2.1 cm lens, even though I had $100,000.00 worth of digital cameras along in my field truck.
I can ask for whatever I want, which happens to be the price originally paid. If someone wants it and it has value to them, they'll pay the price. If they don't, they don't. If you don't like the show, change the channel. I don't care either way.

angelmb · Mar 18, 2010, 08:51 AM

^^ so true.

As long as you can't replace rhipper's G5 with intel Macs so his-her workflow works so beautifully that he-she would have to ponder if the computers are really any different cause everything works as beautifully as with yesterday's G5 just smoother, and even so the improvement better be HUGE, then, it doesn't make any sense to upgrade even when the G5s might have already paid for themselves many times over, but given how the CONS would outweigh the PROS, it would be like to jump a chasm in two leaps. Most dangerous strategy ever.