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Doc HM · Mar 6, 2010, 10:58 AM

I have a client with a PowerMac 7100/66. It's needed to to run one of their Strippit CNC machines. The other day the Mac crashed out, upon investigation it appears that the drive has gone down.

Having replaced the failed optical drive with one from a 9600 I managed to boot the machine into OS 98 from an install CD, but there is no sign of the main drive on the desktop or using disk first aid.

Does anyone know of any app I could use to clone the drive onto a new one (should I be able to resurrect it). The 7100 used SCSI drives internally rather than IDE, which will probably not help. Alternatively I have another drive, but the Strippit software will only run on System 7.5.1 (not .2 or .3). and only on a 7100/66. Talk about specific requirements. I have a set of original system floppies for system 7.5.0 but they came from a 7100/80 and won't boot the 7100/66 (gah!) A set of 7100/66 floppies would be a godsend.

Drawn a blank on ebay for either 7100's OR discs.

BLAZE_MkIV · Mar 6, 2010, 11:10 AM

System 7 Today

reader50 · Mar 6, 2010, 01:29 PM

You can download several System 7 versions from this page.

Doc HM · Mar 6, 2010, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

You can download several System 7 versions from this page.

An exhaustive list, however Apple have only made 7.5.3 available as a complete system and no prior versions. I need 7.5.1.

I've bought a System 7.5.0 CD from ebay US, so I should be able to install that then download the upgrades to get me to 7.5.1

Laminar · Mar 6, 2010, 02:13 PM

I have a spare 7100/80 for parts hanging around if you need anything.

Doc HM · Mar 6, 2010, 04:14 PM

Thanks for the offer. It needs to be a 7100/66, but the HDD, power supply etc from that machine would do. This software is ridiculously specific with regard to machine/OS. Their other Strippit machine will only run on system 6.0.3 and a MacIIcx. I'm currently looking for a backup Mac for that machine.

reader50 · Mar 6, 2010, 06:02 PM

That sounds more like a licensing / DRM issue than a technical limitation. Like they locked each install to the model / OS it was installed on. Perhaps a license upgrade would allow you to move it to something more modern, like a G3 box running OS 9?

Also, you could install 7.5.5 and edit the system version reported, to see if that would get around the problem. ResEdit to the rescue.

hmm ... it seems to me there was an extension that would change the machine ID reported to applications. But I'm not remembering the name.

anthology123 · Mar 6, 2010, 11:41 PM

You should be able to run OS9 on a 7100/66, but there was a special disk formatter for MacOS9, its not in Disk first Aid, was it called Drive Setup. You should find that on the OS9 Installer CD. Run that first and the new hard drive should appear on the desktop

Doc HM · Mar 7, 2010, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

That sounds more like a licensing / DRM issue than a technical limitation. Like they locked each install to the model / OS it was installed on. Perhaps a license upgrade would allow you to move it to something more modern, like a G3 box running OS 9?

Also, you could install 7.5.5 and edit the system version reported, to see if that would get around the problem. ResEdit to the rescue.

hmm ... it seems to me there was an extension that would change the machine ID reported to applications. But I'm not remembering the name.

It's also a physical issue. The card that connects the Strippit to the Mac is a NuBus card so I'm locked into Macs with NuBus slots only, so even going up to a 7200 would be no good as they are PCI.

When we were troubleshooting the older machine we installed its card and software on a Mac IIci (can't remember exactly from memory) but the only difference between the two Macs was an increase from 12 to 16Mhz on the system bus and that was enough to throw the software. We had to get the MoBo on the original II repaired. Looking out for an exact dupe Mac for that machine too.

seanc · Mar 7, 2010, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Doc HM

It's also a physical issue. The card that connects the Strippit to the Mac is a NuBus card so I'm locked into Macs with NuBus slots only, so even going up to a 7200 would be no good as they are PCI.

When we were troubleshooting the older machine we installed its card and software on a Mac IIci (can't remember exactly from memory) but the only difference between the two Macs was an increase from 12 to 16Mhz on the system bus and that was enough to throw the software. We had to get the MoBo on the original II repaired. Looking out for an exact dupe Mac for that machine too.

What was wrong with the mobo?
Best hope the software locks don't work off of hardware IDs.

In what way has the disk failed in the 7100? In case no data is recoverable (without shipping it to Seagate at a cost of £1500) do you have the installation discs for the software? Is the software company still in business, they may be helpful, or they may tell you to buy a new version.

Doc HM · Mar 7, 2010, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by seanc

What was wrong with the mobo?
Best hope the software locks don't work off of hardware IDs.

In what way has the disk failed in the 7100? In case no data is recoverable (without shipping it to Seagate at a cost of £1500) do you have the installation discs for the software? Is the software company still in business, they may be helpful, or they may tell you to buy a new version.

Not exactly sure what went wrong with the motherboard, some capacitors failing or something I think. Anyway, no, the software hasn't got any sophisticated drm etc it just needs to be run on ONE particular Mac and off ONE particular version of the OS. Any correct Mac/OS combo will work fine.

The drive just isn't showing up on the desktop. The CNC machine locked up mid process, I guess when the drive went down. It powers up, I can hear it spinning. No clicking or grinding sounds, just no drive. Going to try to get a block for block copy done of it on Monday and see where that gets me. I have the original install floppies for the Strippit software, just no copies of System 7.5.1. I have been sent a copy via another forum member but I can't translate it across since it's on my MBP and I can't copy it in a format the 7100 will recognise and work with. Retail install CD of 7.5 is on the way from the states (yah ebay).

P · Mar 7, 2010, 04:21 PM

It sounds like the problem is in the integrated electronics of the HD. I know some people have managed to resurrect drives by switching in the circuit board from an identical drive, but it has to be identical. Needless to say that won't be easy to find today.

I have 7.5.1P, ie the version that came with Performas (in this case a Performa 5300) on a disc if that is any help. It's the same OS, plus some extra apps and probably some more System Enablers.

I have been sent a copy via another forum member but I can't translate it across since it's on my MBP and I can't copy it in a format the 7100 will recognise and work with.

I don't understand what this means - if you have disk image, can't you just burn it to a CD?

seanc · Mar 7, 2010, 04:26 PM

I'm guessing it came in floppy images and there's no way to get it back onto floppys.

BLAZE_MkIV · Mar 7, 2010, 07:11 PM

Make a disc image copy the contents of all the floppies to it and burn it ti cd.

P · Mar 8, 2010, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV

Make a disc image copy the contents of all the floppies to it and burn it ti cd.

That won't work directly, I think. I don't remember the details, but I think that the installation tome is set to either look for folders or for floppies.

What should work, however, is this:

Find the utility disk image - it's one of the floppies in the package - and convert that disk image into something more the size of a CD. Make sure Disk Copy is on the utility disk. Copy all the other disk images onto that image. Burn the new utility disk image to a CD and boot from it. This should bring you to the Finder, where you can mount all the other disk images and initiate installation from the first one as usual.

BLAZE_MkIV · 05:27 PM

When I get home i'll look at my 7.6 CD made from floppies and report back.

---------

Make a folder with the name of each floppy disk with the contents of each in it.

Install Me First
Install 1
Install 2
...

olePigeon · 11:59 AM

If the software required to let the machine or application run is not easily available for commercial purchase from a store and if the company is no longer manufacturing the software, there is an exemption in the DMCA that allows you to legally run that software. You should be able to legally download and use Mac OS 8.1 or earlier on your machine.

If you go Macintosh Garden, then browse applications, browse by A, then go to the second page. There is a burnable, bootable, .iso you can download that is a compilation of all the legacy Apple software. It contains System 1 through Mac OS 8 plus legacy drivers and Apple support software. Should contain everything you need. Within the ISO it is also organized by Machine type, so you can install System 7 for the PowerMac 7100 so it includes any special enablers or hardware extensions for expansion cards.

Edit: ISO does not include OS 9 or QuickTime newer than version 6, those are not considered abandonware because Apple still sells them in one incarnation or the other.

Doc HM · Mar 9, 2010, 03:11 PM

Have also been investigating the drive. Hooked onto diagnostics on a scsi equipped PC and the drive showed up as a scsi device. It had an error in block 0 however. Still we can copy the data to a good drive and put that in the 7100, obviating the need for the sys 7 install.

Good info on Mac GArden though. V. useful.

SSharon · Mar 18, 2010, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

I have a spare 7100/80 for parts hanging around if you need anything.

Too bad I didn't see this earlier. I just got rid of my old 7100/66 with maxed out ram a few weeks ago.

philg · Mar 28, 2010, 08:06 PM

I have a similar problem with a Strippit with a Quadra 650. My customer would like to have a spare drive or mac in case the old one fails.
I found a 7100/80 with system 7.5 as above and tried to load the Macpac 5.2.3 software - it installs ok, but freezes on launch - no errors. I doubt if this is because the card is not in the drive, but could be? Has anyone experience with this?
So I drag copied the whole drive to an external scsi Drive - this drive can now now boots the Quadra 650, but when I launch the MacPac software it has message " Couldnt open MacPac Prefs for writing" and then "Error reading Tvr Text" Both the Mac Pac prefs are in the right place and not locked.
Can anybody advise if they have had any success with a backup drive for a Strippit or in reinstalling software?

jaimeeduardo705 · Nov 11, 2010, 04:34 PM

i have the same problem with strippit 1000 xp, we reinstalled the software PAC v 5.7.1 and the mac os 7.5.3, the os is not the original that we use, but i read on a different thead that we need to use 7.5.0 to work the pac, does anyone has the 7.5.0 os or know a way to use the pac on this os?

Any help is useful, we already try praying and cursing, but doent help.

Doc HM · Nov 26, 2010, 06:19 AM

Interesting to see a couple of other people here with Strippit machines running this old stuff. We had a real nighmare getting ours up and running again. Even after I had cloned the drive the MacPac software would freeze on launch. In the end I copied it all into a separate folder and reinstalled the software from the original floppies.
Then we had to go into the parameters file and change nearly all the perameters to different values (supplied by Strippit), then finally the machine fired back into life.

I don't know why the software reacted so badly to having been cloned, it's not like S7 id a sophisticated environment or anything but at least a reinstall got us going.

Currently have the original MacPac floppies copied in several places plus a spare HDD that we know drives the mac and the machine, plus a spare 7100 incase anything goes down on the Mac. Still looking for a IIcx to ddo all this on the older machine too.

jaimeeduardo705 · Mar 17, 2011, 03:02 PM

ok, i decided to do this reply to show how we fix the problem with our strippit and hopefully help with yours.

We are running the pac CNC v 5.7.3 on a macintosh powerpc 7200/120, on Mac os 7.5.3, as many figure, when we install it first time, the result was a crushing the program at the very beggining.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

After installing many other os, different versions of the turret, etc, we finally find the simple (and may i add stupid) problem: Reduce the colors on monitor setings to 256.....and thats IT.....

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

yes...
thats all..

i was also trying to find older mac´s to install older versions of system7, reducing memory (physically and by software) removing drives, etc and this was all i needed.

After this, i change memory setting and it always work, i reinstall hard drives and got the same result, i did almost everything i wanted and it always work, just adjusting the colors did the trick.

On this version, system 7you are requiered to remove the control strip, only cause it gets on the way

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

NOTE: IF YOU CONNECT A DIFERRENT MONITOR, SYSTEM 7 IS GOING TO CHANGE THE COLORS DEPTH AGAIN, WITHOUT TELLING YOU ANYTHING, YOU HAVE TO CHANGE IT BACK AGAIN, CONSIDER YOURSELF WARN.