[j_suh]

Hi, I'm new to this forum! Well, I just recently bought an old iMac G3 from Craigslist for $50. It is a slot-loading 350 MHz iMac. Just to clarify, this is my first mac, haha Well, it currently runs Mac OS 9, and I want to upgrade to Mac OS X. Does anybody know up to what version I can install before it does me no good (ex 10.3 or 10.4)? I also have a 60 GB HDD that I would like to install (and install the Mac OS X on there. Also, I would like to upgrade the RAM. Does anybody have recommendation for places to buy PC100 RAM? Lastly, is there any other upgrades or anything else that I should know? Thanks in advance!

[Lateralus]

Welcome to Macintosh.

10.3 will suit you well. It's probably the best combination of semi-modern software technologies and performance for a low-end G3.

Regarding memory, I wouldn't bother searching for an online retailer - at this point you'll wind up paying far more than PC100/133 RAM is worth. Head to eBay and grab two 512MB PC100/133 (non-ECC) DIMMs for a song.

Other than that... there's not much you can do so far as upgrades. It's a limited machine so just throw some RAM in and enjoy it for the good opportuntiy to learn the ins and outs of OS X that it is.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by j_suh 

Does anybody know up to what version I can install before it does me no good (ex 10.3 or 10.4)?

10.3.9 officially. Unofficially, using XpostFacto, you can go to 10.4.11

Originally Posted by j_suh 

I also have a 60 GB HDD that I would like to install (and install the Mac OS X on there.

Replacing the internal drive can be done, but it's reported to be a bear to get into the CRT iMacs, and reassemble them afterwards. A better plan is to get a FW400 enclosure for the drive, and run it externally. You can install OS X to an external FW drive and boot from there.

Note: this iMac has USB 1.1 ports - do NOT try a USB enclosure. Even if it works, it will be limited to 1.5 MB/s. FireWire will run up to 50 MB/s.

Originally Posted by j_suh 

Also, I would like to upgrade the RAM. Does anybody have recommendation for places to buy PC100 RAM?

Max RAM is 1 GB (2 x 512 MB). RAM is PC100, and must be the low-density variety. Preferably sticks recommended for Macs.

Try using the RamSeeker page for iMac G3 RAM. All memory linked from that page should work.

Originally Posted by j_suh 

Lastly, is there any other upgrades or anything else that I should know?

This is an obsolete model today. The motherboard battery may be dead - if it keeps losing the date/time when turned off, then the battery should be replaced.

The internal optical drive may be getting weak. It may have trouble with 2-layer DVDs (if it's a DVD drive) or with burned CD media.

Max internal drive size is 128 GB - see the PowerMac Storage FAQ for workarounds to accomodate larger drives. This limit does not affect external drives - those can go as high as the enclosure allows.

This iMac may accept an original AirPort card (802.11b) but the ethernet port is way faster. Graphics are a Rage 128 Pro with 8 MB dedicated vRAM. It can play the games of the time, but is badly underpowered for later games or other software.

[j_suh]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

10.3 will suit you well. It's probably the best combination of semi-modern software technologies and performance for a low-end G3.

Thanks for the advice. Do you know where I can get a copy of OS 10.3 nowadays?

[j_suh]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Replacing the internal drive can be done, but it's reported to be a bear to get into the CRT iMacs, and reassemble them afterwards. A better plan is to get a FW400 enclosure for the drive, and run it externally. You can install OS X to an external FW drive and boot from there.

Note: this iMac has USB 1.1 ports - do NOT try a USB enclosure. Even if it works, it will be limited to 1.5 MB/s. FireWire will run up to 50 MB/s.


Max RAM is 1 GB (2 x 512 MB). RAM is PC100, and must be the low-density variety. Preferably sticks recommended for Macs.

Well, I have opened the iMac already and it wasn't very hard getting to the HDD. I would use the external HDD route, but my iMac is the 350 MHz version, so it does not have firewire! Also, what do you mean by the "low-density variety"?

[reader50]

If you're already in there, go for the HD change. The internal bus will be a bit faster than FW400 anyway. Which you don't have, yeah - that appeared with the 400 MHz models. Sorry.

Apple's memory controllers at the time max out at 512 MB per stick. But they used a max row / column count different from what the rest of the industry went with. Most common 512 MB sticks will either be seen as 256 MB sticks, or will not recognize at all. Don't blame Apple - at the time the memory controller was designed, 512 sticks didn't exist yet.

The high-density / low-density refers to a rule of thumb at the time. Lower density chips tended to get mapped the way Apple had expected. And since they were lower density, a 512 stick needed 16 chips, 8 on each side. RAM sticks using higher density chips needed only 8 chips total, and invariably didn't work right in Macs of the time.

Today, I wouldn't go by the chip count any more. Just buy sticks known to work in Macs, or sold to work in Macs of the time. The ramseeker page I linked contains safe RAM choices. If you go the ebay route, any PC100 - 512 sticks pulled from Macs should be safe. And smaller sticks (256 MB or smaller) were usually ok. The finicky-RAM problem only kicked in at the max size of 512 MB sticks.

[Lateralus]

My memory on the G3 iMacs is starting to fuzz, but which 350MHz are we talking about? Because, IIRC, the Indigos used the same logicboard as the 500/600/700MHz models and thus shouldn't have a problem with pretty much any 512MB 100/133 non-ECC DIMM.

[j_suh]

Yup, it is the Indigo version. And do you know where I can get a copy of OS 10.3?

[Lateralus]

Yeah, you should be fine then. That was essentially the last revision of any significance to the G3 iMac logicboard.

For 10.3, just bid on any of these

[Spheric Harlot]

I'd stick 10.4 on there, even if you need to trick it with Xpostfacto.

I upgraded my 400MHz iMac DV to 10.4, and it was noticeably more fluid - provided you stick enough RAM in there.

[Doc HM]

I think 10.4 is a better bet all round, You can use the current version of safari or FF3 then. Without that the interweb will be starting to break up around you.

Max the ram out. If you can get the drive out you can install 10.4 directly onto it using a FW caddy etc then pop it back in to avoid needing to use XpostFacto

[Thorzdad]

As someone who was, until recently, running 10.3.9 (on a G5) I have to say that 10.3.9 is a very solid version of the Mac OS, and should run well on your G3.

That said, I would also advise that, if there is any way possible to get 10.4.x running acceptably on your G3...do it. Before I moved to a more modern hardware and OS, I started running into all sorts of incompatibility issues with the PPC/10.3.9 combo. I couldn't upgrade a lot of my software to new versions, for instance. Additionally, I started running into websites that didn't behave correctly...mostly due to Flash and the fact that the sites required a version of Flash Player that was not compatible with 10.3.9. A move to 10.4.x (and an Intel-based Mac) would have solved a lot of my problem.

[Spheric Harlot]

Most Flash content is going to be excruciating on a 350 MHz G3, regardless of installed Flash version.

(I also tried playing a DivX…once.)

The rest of your post, I agree with.

[j_suh]

Well, this is not my main computer. I'm probably going to use it just for light web browsing and email. And also just to kind of learn the ins and outs of Mac OS X and stuff (like I said before, this is my first Mac). I looked on ebay and 10.4 is a lot more expensive than 10.3. Is 10.4 really worth the extra money, or is OS 10.3 okay?

[Lateralus]

I wouldn't pay a dollar more for 10.4 over 10.3. You'll need to hack it on to get past its FireWire mandate and all you'll get in return is bloat and a bit more support from modern applications.

By my point of view, a 350MHz G3 screams for a clean, slimmed down installation (no worthless printer drives, language packs...) of 10.3.

I'm slightly biased though. 10.3 is still my favorite iteration of OS X to date and I'd happily run it on my current hardware were it possible/feasible.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

I wouldn't pay a dollar more for 10.4 over 10.3. You'll need to hack it on to get past its FireWire mandate and all you'll get in return is bloat and a bit more support from modern applications.

It ran noticeably more fluidly on my old iMac, and a lot of the "bloat" was polish.

"A bit more support from modern applications" is not something I'd as lightly dismiss as you do, btw.

[Lateralus]

On a more powerful machine, I wouldn't dismiss it as readily either. But we're talking about a 10 year old 350MHz G3 - the caliber of software that's going to be run on it isn't exactly going to be heavy hitting anyways. iTunes, web browsing, messenger, basic productivity applications... Not that difficult to accomplish on 10.3.x. Or any Mach-family OS dating back to NeXTSTEP, for that matter.

I think the questions here are; How much more money 10.4 is worth and whether or not dealing with an XPostFacto installation is something that we want to be pushing a platform newcomer toward. More over - Insofar as familiarizing one's self with the Finder and OS X in general, there's very little perceivable difference between 10.3 and 10.4. Especially when either OS will install, by default, all of the software necessary for the tasks that j_suh has outlined.

Personal preference, I guess. And in this case I prefer the cheaper OS with the straightforward installation.

[macaddict0001]

The only real advantage of 10.4 is dashboard, and imo you can't put enough ram in that machine to run 10.4 well anyway. Though I do recall my dad used to run tiger on an imac dv+ with 386 MB of ram so.

[Spheric Harlot]

There's a bunch of other stuff - Finder slideshows (which worked surprisingly well on my DV w/ 768 MB RAM), image resizing when sending mail, and a ton of other little things like that which make life just nicer.

[j_suh]

Ok, well I searched around other forums and stuff, and I found out that I have to update the firmware for the iMac. Does anybody know how to check the current firmware?

[reader50]

Run Software Update. Boot OS 9 and see if the firmware update is available there.

If it's the 4.19 update, you can get it manually here. note: this update must be done from OS 9.