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digdog · May 18, 2006, 10:05 AM

(From Apple service manual...)

Step One:

Step Two:

Star-Fire · May 18, 2006, 10:18 AM

OMG, it's a CPU not a sandwich!

harrisjamieh · May 18, 2006, 10:24 AM

mmmm, core duo sandwich, yummy

Eug Wanker · May 18, 2006, 10:41 AM

That's what... about 10X too much?

Draco · May 18, 2006, 10:46 AM

buhaha. that's insane! And rather disconcerting considering I have a Macbook on the way

Horsepoo!!! · May 18, 2006, 10:49 AM

I'm not gonna order a MacBook sandwich until Apple figures out that it's putting too much mayo on it.

piracy · 12:21 PM

That's even more than "10x" too much.

Thermal grease/paste is designed to smooth out minute ridges between surfaces; nothing more. All that's needed is an extremely thin layer, or, before it's compressed, a ball about 2mm around on a surface like that - just enough that air gaps between the metal surfaces are filled - that's it.

At these levels of application, thermal grease becomes an insulator, and actually prevents heat from being dissipated from the designed areas of the chip: this is actually WORSE than having no paste at all. MUCH worse. Quite literally.

I can't believe that the engineering, design, and QA groups at Apple, Asustek, and Quanta let - and are letting - this one slip by.

stuffedmonkey · May 18, 2006, 12:20 PM

Holy ****! That is horrible! What are they doing to that poor machine? That's not a f-ing sundae!!

Eug Wanker · May 18, 2006, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by piracy

That's even more than "10x" too much.

Thermal grease/paste is designed to smooth out minute ridges between surfaces; nothing more. All that's needed is an extremely thin layer, or, before it's compressed, a ball about 2mm around on a surface like that - just enough that air gaps between the metal surfaces are filled - that's it.

At these levels of application, thermal grease becomes an insulator, and actually prevents heat from being dissipated from the designed areas of the chip: this is actually WORSE than having no paste at all. MUCH worse. Quite literally.

My 10X was considering practical amounts for assembly lines. If they used 1/10th of that it would still be too much, but would be more feasible for assembly lines, etc. I'm guessing, as long as they pressed hard enough to thin out the goop. But then again, I don't do this for a living.

I can't believe that the engineering, design, and QA groups at Apple, Asustek, and Quanta let - and are letting - this one slip by.

It's the same for the instructions for the MacBook Pro.

CaseCom · May 18, 2006, 01:09 PM

Hmmm. Maybe this explains the little heat problem seen in this review?

galarneau · May 18, 2006, 01:22 PM

Well, at least the MacBook looks like it's easy to take apart.

Not a big huge deal to go and put some Arctic Silver or something on there instead.

harrisjamieh · May 18, 2006, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by CaseCom

Hmmm. Maybe this explains the little heat problem seen in this review?

That reviewers MacBook is a joke! How on earth can it just give up after 30 mins of use because it is too hot!! I really do hope this is an isolated incident

Yakov · May 18, 2006, 01:59 PM

obviously.
machines aren't designed to crash every half hour.
they leave the store models on all day.
silly to review a defective product.

JAR · May 18, 2006, 02:17 PM

My macbook definitely has heat problems. This is the hottest laptop I have ever owned. I've built and tinkered with systems before, so I'm not too worried about simply opening it up and reapplying with a dab of arctic silver, but does anyone know if there are warranty tags and stickers I might break in the process? I definitely do not want to void my 3 year warranty, and if opening my macbook does void it I definitely want to hide the fact that I did

. Any thoughts?

Gee4orce · May 18, 2006, 02:38 PM

Hello, the voice of reason here:

Apple is one of the worlds biggest computer companies, and their machines are manufactured by some of the biggest fabricators in the world.

Do you not thing they know what they are doing ?

greenamp · 03:01 PM

Is the CPU soldered in? Kinda doesn't look like it from that pic. 'Course, I wouldn't really know either way.

JAR · May 18, 2006, 02:59 PM

No, I am the voice of reason:

Yes, do NOT think they know what they are doing.

It makes me laugh whenever I hear some Apple fanatic trying to defend Apple when they overdo the thermal paste. It will NEVER be ok to put that much thermal paste on a chip, because it TRAPS the heat in the CPU, which then spreads to the motherboard and other parts of the computer causing potentially permanent damage. You are only supposed to put half a grain of rice worth of thermal paste so it fills in the microscopic gaps and holes in the surfaces of the CPU and heatsink. there is supposed to be as much metal-on-metal contact for maximum heat transfer. Trust me, this has been discussed many times in other forums, once you redo the thermal paste correctly the temps will drop 20C because the heatsinks will dissipate the heat properly so the heat doesn't build up inside.

BTW just to clarify I am an Apple fan, but not a fanatic. Apple is great, but someone has to call them out when they mess up.

Simon · May 18, 2006, 03:11 PM

And you don't find it at least somewhat puzzling that Apple hasn't heard about the problem, hasn't checked with their engineers why they don't know something apparently every 12 year old that read the web knows, that their manufacturers in Asia that produce millions of notebooks a year for several major PC companies don't know, that they obviously don't care about it even though these additional 20C you quote are likely to reduce the lifetime of their hardware, increase return rate, increase warranty repair costs and ultimately reduce Apple's revenue? You don't find it puzzling that you know so much more than Apple even though they read the same web you do?

[Honestly, no offense intended, but although what you say might sound reasonable, it does strike me that Apple seems to not know this and I'm doubting they employ 20'000 idiots and not one is capable of making the same conclusion you do...]

piracy · May 18, 2006, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

Do you not think they know what they are doing ?

No. Absolutely, definitely, categorically: no.

This is not a matter of opinion, nor up for debate.

Let me see if I can be clear: that is FAR TOO MUCH THERMAL GREASE, by well over an order of magnitude.

With that level of application, it is ACTING AS AN INSULATOR. Yes, thermal grease still conducts heat, but in comparison to the metal surfaces it should simply be filling air gaps in, it is a MUCH WORSE conductor of heat.

By every measure, standard, and practice, that is far, far, far, far too much thermal grease. The heat dissipates in an uncontrolled and unintended fashion, instead of through the heat pipes, heat sinks, and associated fans as was intended.

There is a band-aid solution in the recent MacBook Pro SMC update, but that doesn't change the fact that this could actually be described as a SERIOUS MANUFACTURING DEFECT, and that does NOT overstate the magnitude of this problem.

StiZeven · May 18, 2006, 03:14 PM

The sad part is that Apple is deliberately caking on all that thermal paste assuming that this will make their notebooks niiiice and coooool. How ironic.

Considering that they take so much time and money in their designs and engineering, this is quite an embarrassment for them. Then again, they still don't think they are doing anything wrong!

Is anyone actually debating this? The proof is in the pictures - there is WAY too much thermal paste!

Simon · May 18, 2006, 03:18 PM

OK, assuming you guys are right: Why doesn't Apple know? Why don't they care? It's their revenue and their rep that will suffer, why do they seem to not give a damn? And why do their engineers (many of them with a master's degree or PhD in EE) know so much less than some people posting on forums?

Doesn't that make you a little suspicious that there might be more to the story?