[macgyvr64]

Any guesses on the pricing for the soon-to-be-announced 15.4'' PowerBooks (hopefully using the 970 as MacWhispers says)?

[AssassyN]

I doubt it will be soon, and I *highly* doubt it'll have anything above a G4 if it is soon.

But nonetheless, I say the prices will be what the TiBook's were before the new AlBooks were revealed...just common marketing sense.

[macgyvr64]

Why wouldn't it be soon? The 15 is the only one not updated....they really need a middle machine. 12 is kinda small, and 17 is monstrous. I'm really looking for something with a medium screen, but faster than the current 15's...

[schmoe]

Hmm interesting rumor. I'd guess it wasn't true, isn't production of the 970 still like a year away? How would they position it? If this was true I bet it would go for a higher price than the 17"...

However aren't PowerBooks Apple's highest margin? And with the new Centrino/Pentium-M I'd go as far as to say Apple has fallen behind the competition. It might take something as astonishing as this to keep them in the race. Perhaps a light low end 12", the ultimate performer 15", and a really fancy 17" that isn't as fast as the 15" but has a huge screen?

Time will tell... I'd cancel my ThinkPad T40p order if a 1.6ghz+ 970 15.4" PowerBook came out, but nothing else is likely to change my mind.

[seanyepez]

The PowerBooks will probably all be updated together in July.

[superfoo]

Originally posted by macgyvr64:
Why wouldn't it be soon? The 15 is the only one not updated....they really need a middle machine. 12 is kinda small, and 17 is monstrous. I'm really looking for something with a medium screen, but faster than the current 15's...

Even when they do come out with a 15" AlBook, I doubt it will have any features that the 17" AlBook does not have... i.e., a faster processor or next-gen CPU... As many others have said before, and with good reason, Apple does not want their lower dollar products to cannibalize sales of their higher dollar products. Creating a 15" AlBook superior to the 17" TiBook would do just that.

While I haven't seen all that much in the way of benchmarks, the 17" 1GHz is not any or much faster than the current 15" 1GHz, as the G4 in general can't take anywhere near full advantage of the faster bus speeds found in the 17" AlBook. Perhaps the 17" has some advantages in the GPU dept., but in so far as CPU goes, there's not any notable difference at all.

I personally wouldn't be surprised if we see the iBooks updated first, and the current AlBooks "bumped" before or, or more probably, when we see the 15" AlBook announced. Don't know if this will be the case or not, but depending upon how conservative Apple decides to be, it wouldn't surprise me.

[RGB]

Originally posted by macgyvr64:
Why wouldn't it be soon? The 15 is the only one not updated....they really need a middle machine. 12 is kinda small, and 17 is monstrous. I'm really looking for something with a medium screen, but faster than the current 15's...

I don't see them upgrading the 15" until all powerbooks are ready for an upgrade... they won't just speed bump one of them, and they won't upgrade the 15" w/o a speed bump I think. Very unfortunate for me, i want it now!!!

[im_noahselby]

Originally posted by macgyvr64:
Any guesses on the pricing for the soon-to-be-announced 15.4'' PowerBooks (hopefully using the 970 as MacWhispers says)?

$1799 1 Ghz
12" Combo Drive

$1999 1 Ghz
12" SuperDrive

$2299 1 Ghz
15.4" Combo Drive

$2799 1.2 Ghz
15.4" SuperDrive

$2999 1 Ghz
17" Combo Drive

$3299 1.2 Ghz
17" SuperDrive

I dont expect to see the 970 in the PowerBook line until after this final G4 revision

Noah

[wavegroom]

I must say this rumors about new 15" Powerbook make me crazy!!!!!

I love and hate this rumors!!!! Since 3 months I want to switch from my ibook to a 15" powerbook, but this f**king rumors...... about new powerbooks make me mad....grrrrr

And now there are new rumors about a this 970 powerbooks, I would be like in a dream when this beast comes to markt soon......
(but I don't think so...)

I think I will wait and wait until I'm a grandpa (student now) because I don't want a crap g4 powerbook.....

I hope apple shows the new 15" fast, if not I must go to madhouse

(so lets all pray tonight and apple will deliver the new 15" 970 with proc tomorrow )

[Crusoe]

$1799 1 Ghz
12" Combo Drive

$1999 1 Ghz
12" SuperDrive

$2499 1 Ghz
15.4" Combo Drive

$2999 1Ghz
15.4" SuperDrive

$3299 1 Ghz
17" SuperDrive

Doubt we'll see a speed bump, nor a combo 17" and the 15.4" SD will start at where the old 15.2 superdrive was. Besides they have to tack on bluetooth and fiber optics fees.

970 processors perhaps for SF Keynote 2004.

[threestain]

We won't see something faster than the 17" - what would be the point, as no-one would buy the big powerbook, apart from as a fashion accessory. And the 17" won't get a massive update for quite a while - they only just started to ship them for heavens sake!

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by threestain:
We won't see something faster than the 17" - what would be the point, as no-one would buy the big powerbook, apart from as a fashion accessory. And the 17" won't get a massive update for quite a while - they only just started to ship them for heavens sake!

Exactly, you can't make the "middle ground" machine faster than the "high-end" machine.

[Patcarla]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Exactly, you can't make the "middle ground" machine faster than the "high-end" machine.

Yes. That wouldn't make any sense.
Either they update the 15" to current config (al, AE, etc..) very soon, or Apple waits the next rev to speed bumb the whole line. In that case, my guess would be not before august. The question will be then PPC970 or G4 7457..

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by Patcarla:
Yes. That wouldn't make any sense.
Either they update the 15" to current config (al, AE, etc..) very soon, or Apple waits the next rev to speed bumb the whole line. In that case, my guess would be not before august. The question will be then PPC970 or G4 7457..

Yep, I say they'll speed bump the whole line, and August at the *ealiest*.

[mcs37]

Originally posted by schmoe:
Hmm interesting rumor. I'd guess it wasn't true, isn't production of the 970 still like a year away? How would they position it? If this was true I bet it would go for a higher price than the 17"...

Lots of reports indicate that the 970 is _way_ ahead of its production schedule, and could be ready for powerbooks as I write this. Reports within IBM (a few months old) indicate the 970 won't be ready for production until 2004, but I think that's just to throw off curious IBMers within the intranet.

[mcs37]

Originally posted by wavegroom:
I must say this rumors about new 15" Powerbook make me crazy!!!!!

I love and hate this rumors!!!! Since 3 months I want to switch from my ibook to a 15" powerbook, but this f**king rumors...... about new powerbooks make me mad....grrrrr

And now there are new rumors about a this 970 powerbooks, I would be like in a dream when this beast comes to markt soon......
(but I don't think so...)

Here's something to throw you off more: not only will Apple introduce the 970 PowerBook this year, they will also prepare a DUAL 970 powerbook by 2004.

Here is the looney suit for you.

Additionally here is a link with a CNET article saying the PPC will be in systems in 2003.

[PB2K]

you know..i have been looking at sub-1Ghz systemadvertisements for so long ; those 1.2 Ghz powerbooks make me dizzy !!! It's not natural, not Apple !!

[PoisonTooth]

Originally posted by schmoe:
Hmm interesting rumor. I'd guess it wasn't true, isn't production of the 970 still like a year away? How would they position it? If this was true I bet it would go for a higher price than the 17"...

However aren't PowerBooks Apple's highest margin? And with the new Centrino/Pentium-M I'd go as far as to say Apple has fallen behind the competition. It might take something as astonishing as this to keep them in the race. Perhaps a light low end 12", the ultimate performer 15", and a really fancy 17" that isn't as fast as the 15" but has a huge screen?

Time will tell... I'd cancel my ThinkPad T40p order if a 1.6ghz+ 970 15.4" PowerBook came out, but nothing else is likely to change my mind.

Me too. I have a T40 on order, and the only things that could change my mind are:

1. The T40, for some reason, really sucks.

2. Apple releases a CPU with some punch instead of the woefully weak and underpowered G4s they're forced to use now.

[PoisonTooth]

Originally posted by mcs37:
Lots of reports indicate that the 970 is _way_ ahead of its production schedule, and could be ready for powerbooks as I write this. Reports within IBM (a few months old) indicate the 970 won't be ready for production until 2004, but I think that's just to throw off curious IBMers within the intranet.

Apple will NOT put the PPC970 into its laptop line before it does something about its pro towers, which get their ass kicked from here to next Tuesday by Intel systems costing far less.

[tgrundke]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Exactly, you can't make the "middle ground" machine faster than the "high-end" machine.

Wrong. The major selling point of the 17" PowerBook is the 17" screen. Apple learned a hard lesson last year when they had the monstrously price $3000+ PowerBook that absolutely nobody bought.

This time around, they've thrown in a bigger screen and better goodies to make it worth the while. However, as is typical of Apple product cycles (particularly with the very high end products), the demand for the 17" will slump after the initial orders are fulfilled and Apple will be forced to lower the price.

[chazmox]

The only way the 15 inch will go up in price is if the 970 is intro'ed. With a G4, AL, bluetooth, FW800, AirEx, the new 15 inch would either be introduced at the same price or lower.

Apple could just not have a press release where it says

"Apple Raises Prices on Mi-Range Laptop"

unless the 970 was included.

Also, it won't be a 1.6 GHz 970 ( if at all ), it will be 1-1.2 GHz due to wattage... you might as well order that T40 ( if that's what you really want )...

All these rumors are driving me crazy too!

[bluejam]

Originally posted by PoisonTooth:
Me too. I have a T40 on order, and the only things that could change my mind are:

1. The T40, for some reason, really sucks.

2. Apple releases a CPU with some punch instead of the woefully weak and underpowered G4s they're forced to use now.

1. Here's a reason. The T40 runs Windows so it will definitely SUCK.

2. The 1 gig G4 is plenty fast for MOST applications.

If YOUR applications/programs don't run fast enough on your PB, then go get your IBM and please stop your incessent whining about Apple performance. Sorry in advance but it's getting old.

A good site someone posted here a while back is www.apple-history.com. Will give speed bumps and prices. Prices ALWAYS drop. The 15"Ti even dropped $300 in only 3 months. Watch the 17 do the same. I could see them coming out with the new 1Gz 15.4 Al without upgrading the 17 just to make it even with the 12 and 17. Then upgrade all three for the holidays.

[PoisonTooth]

Originally posted by bluejam:
1. Here's a reason. The T40 runs Windows so it will definitely SUCK.

Ah yes, I see. Another Mac zealot who hates another platform because the Mac idiom says so. Gotcha.

Nothing like a zealot to help further along rational discussion.

2. The 1 gig G4 is plenty fast for MOST applications.

I agree -- for the most part -- although it certainly doesn't give you much room to grow. I had to do some heavy PPT editing on my 1 GHz TiBook, and it was surprisingly sluggish, even when it came to entering text notes. Moving slide-to-slide was just a *touch* laggardly, too. Nothing show-stopping, but certainly not as quick as my WinXP desktop.

If YOUR applications/programs don't run fast enough on your PB, then go get your IBM and please stop your incessent whining about Apple performance. Sorry in advance but it's getting old.

Incessant whining? You have 10 posts, so really, how long have you been around to witness anything? Calm down, kid.

Wait, wait: you've been a long time lurker, right? Of course you have.

Anyway, I've mentioned Apple's performance issues about two or three times, and it's hardly whining -- it's a reality of owning the Mac platform at this juncture. If you don't think there is a performance issue, I suggest you get your head out of the sand and look around. It doesn't mean Macs suck, and it ain't gonna kill you.

[threestain]

I don't think that the ONLY selling point for the 17" is the screen - yes it is lovely and big and everything, but bearing in mind that their 20" studio screen is now only £600ish - if people want size but still portability this could be a very viable option, in conjunction with the 15" - although obviously if they need the larger screen even whilst travelling then the 17" is the key

[BrunoBruin]

Originally posted by bluejam:
Prices ALWAYS drop.

When the PowerBooks went from the 550/667 VGA to the 667/800 DVI models, the prices jumped from $2,199 and $2,999 to $2,499 and $3,199. Prices might drop after a model has been out a while, if that's what you meant, but they aren't always lower or even the same with a revision.

In this case, what will restrain the price of the top 15-inch PowerBook is the $3,299 they're charging for the 17. There will need to be SOME distance there, so I'm betting the 15 will stay at $2,999.

[todrain]

Originally posted by wavegroom:
I must say this rumors about new 15" Powerbook make me crazy!!!!!

I love and hate this rumors!!!! Since 3 months I want to switch from my ibook to a 15" powerbook, but this f**king rumors...... about new powerbooks make me mad....grrrrr

And now there are new rumors about a this 970 powerbooks, I would be like in a dream when this beast comes to markt soon......
(but I don't think so...)

I think I will wait and wait until I'm a grandpa (student now) because I don't want a crap g4 powerbook.....

I hope apple shows the new 15" fast, if not I must go to madhouse

(so lets all pray tonight and apple will deliver the new 15" 970 with proc tomorrow )

I just got a 15" 1Ghz, since it looks like the new 15's won't be out for a while (plus I like the door on the back to prevent crap from getting into my ports)

I figure that any upgrade to 15s now will be mostly design, maybe some speed, but who know when we'll see them. Coming from a 500mhz iBook, the Ti is more than fast enough.

I also doubt that the 970s will be in a Powerbook for a while... Apple's PowerMacs always have the newest Processors, and if you look back at Apple's History, they have NEVER put newer technology in a portable until it's made it's way into a desktop.

[mcs37]

Originally posted by PoisonTooth:
Apple will NOT put the PPC970 into its laptop line before it does something about its pro towers, which get their ass kicked from here to next Tuesday by Intel systems costing far less.

But isn't 2003 supposed to be the year of the laptop? The idea of shifting desktops into laptops is pretty sweet in my mind. I know I hate having to hook up my tower everytime I move. The idea of having as much horsepower in a laptop as you can get in a tower is fantastic. Let's not forget that most of Apple's revenue is coming from its laptop lines, not the tower lines. Most switchers are going for laptops because Apple kicks the crap out of competition when it comes to laptops. They still have a ways to go for the tower units, since PC units will continue to kick Apple's ass until something huge (i.e. dual 970) comes along that makes PC users seriously consider an Apple for desktop replacement.

Prediction: the 970 will be introduced simultaneously with the PowerBook line and the Power Mac line.

[threestain]

But that's not what has ever happened. And crucially, its a lot EASIER to put a new design of processor into a tower than into a laptop - why would Apple waste another 6 months/year in which they will fall further behind the Intel/AMD chips? They might not be making most of their money in the desktop market, but they NEED that market - that is their core market, the professionals. If that market gets ignored in respects to speed and power, then this core will start to flake away. They will, I reckon, pump out the 970 as soon as physically possible, to safeguard this market, and then in due course, update the powerbooks - but not until their market has plateaud out. Otherwise they would be hindering their own business.

And besides, every year has been the year of the laptop, and the year of bluetooth!

[PoisonTooth]

Originally posted by mcs37:
But isn't 2003 supposed to be the year of the laptop? The idea of shifting desktops into laptops is pretty sweet in my mind. I know I hate having to hook up my tower everytime I move. The idea of having as much horsepower in a laptop as you can get in a tower is fantastic. Let's not forget that most of Apple's revenue is coming from its laptop lines, not the tower lines. Most switchers are going for laptops because Apple kicks the crap out of competition when it comes to laptops. They still have a ways to go for the tower units, since PC units will continue to kick Apple's ass until something huge (i.e. dual 970) comes along that makes PC users seriously consider an Apple for desktop replacement.

Prediction: the 970 will be introduced simultaneously with the PowerBook line and the Power Mac line.

Yes, I know this is supposed to be "the year of the laptop," but that means nothing when PPC970 comes around to change the game. Apple towers always have the top-end CPUs, and PPC970, IMO, will be no exception. Why would Apple fuss with a low heat/low power variant of the PPC970 when it could release a "standard" version in the desktop line presumably sooner?

Apple's desktop/tower lines have ABYSMAL sales, and they need to fix that ASAP. Not all professional users want a laptop -- many want a desktop system to which drives & components can be added and accessed and upgraded. Laptops are one thing, but Apple needs to reaffirm its direction vis a vis its towers before anything. The PowerBook line has decent lifeblood in it right now anyway, so it's not begging for an upgrade like the towers are.

Prediction: you won't see the 970 SHIPPING (as we saw with the 17", announcement dates don't mean squat) until late this year/early 2004 for desktops. Laptop variants will be 4-6 months later.

Let's keep one thing in mind, too: the PPC970 is not even confirmed yet. For all we know, Cupertino has other designs.

[mcs37]

Originally posted by PoisonTooth:
Apple's desktop/tower lines have ABYSMAL sales, and they need to fix that ASAP. Not all professional users want a laptop -- many want a desktop system to which drives & components can be added and accessed and upgraded. Laptops are one thing, but Apple needs to reaffirm its direction vis a vis its towers before anything. The PowerBook line has decent lifeblood in it right now anyway, so it's not begging for an upgrade like the towers are.

It seems to me that Apple has the vision that the laptop is going to replace the desktop entirely one day. Evidence: 17" PowerBook. Who in the hell wants a "laptop" with a 17" display? Well, someone who wants lots of power but a nice big display. A desktop replacement. Apple understands the trend we've seen over the years towards miniaturization (cell phones, PDAs, tablet PC's, laptops). The days when towers always had to beat laptops are coming to an end. If you had a 17" powerbook with TWO 970 processors (perhaps one could shut off when running on battery), you have yourself a contender for damn-powerful machine. The width of the 17" alubook provides more than enough space to fit the second processor and additional components to complement it.

Apple's desktop lines aren't nearly as strong as the laptop line, but it seems to me that Apple WANTS to have enormous laptop lines. If the entire future of the dot-com industry right now is riding on WiFi, as CNET predicts every day, Apple will want to keep a close hold on the laptop market since it wants to increase its popularity for wireless users.

There's a reason why all the switchers I know buy (i|Power)Books: they want cool, powerful mobile machines. I can't think of any switchers that I know (personally) who want a tower machine since they know they can get more powerful gaming/etc. boxes with a PC for much cheaper. Apple is not the leader of that front; Apple is, however, a very strong contender for the laptop line. The strongest, I think.

Prediction: you won't see the 970 SHIPPING (as we saw with the 17", announcement dates don't mean squat) until late this year/early 2004 for desktops. Laptop variants will be 4-6 months later.

I doubt it. All sources indicate that Panther will support the 64-bit processor, which will be released at the WWDC, a perfect time to announce a new power mac lineup.

Let's keep one thing in mind, too: the PPC970 is not even confirmed yet. For all we know, Cupertino has other designs.

When numerous sources within IBM confirm that Apple is a customer for the 970, I trust that over any Mac rumor site.

[macgyvr64]

I'm just looking for a moderate screen size and graphics as good as the GF4 420 Go. The 12'' machines are very nice, but the screen is just a little too small. I'm stuck with a 12'' G3/233 PowerBook running 10.2.4 right now, and I'd like a slightly bigger screen. Why didn't they update the middle PowerBook to begin with?

(Figures...the one time I have some real money to burn on an Apple product, and what I want isn't available..yet..)

[javabeans]

Man...I'm going to order a 17" PowerBook (BTW this is my first Mac) and after reading this thread, I'm leaning toward the wait until the price drop...

[jtwiskowski]

I think everyone needs to realize that there are plenty of Titaniums out there ... and that there is no way the 15-inch model will be any better than the 17" ... so we should be expecting no more than an exact replica of the 17-inch PowerBook except with a 15.4-inch screen (or maybe not).

When the 17-inch is speed-bumped then we will see faster 15-inch 'Books ... but do not expect a processor above 1GHz for right now as long as the 17-inch is at 1GHz (any many are still waiting for their 17-inch 'Books keep in mind).

What I really want is either another 12-inch model or a different approach to the 12-inch. I love my 12-inch, and the beign the cheapest PowerBook makes it even sweeter ... but I am willing to pay more to have a better one. Let's see Apple make a 12-inch that has all the goodies of the 17-inch ... almost no reason it can't! That would be a real JEWEL! The fastest and smallest all in one. Although for the money (ADC discount so real cheap) my 12-inch is amazing already! All I really want is a is 64MB of video RAM and a L3 cache.

Sorry for getting off the subject!

[todrain]

It would be nice for Apple to come out with a small, Powerful laptop.

I loved the size of my iBook, but the 12" Powerbook is the most underpowered of all. Wouldn't a lot of us pay $2299 or so for a 1ghz 12" Powerbook (for me I'd need DVI out as well)

For some reason Apple seems to think that the size of the unit should dictate it's power. (The Duos seemed to be the only units that were ever faster than larger models.)

[macgyvr64]

I wanna run some new games, too... 64 MB of vram should be standard across the board

[PoisonTooth]

Originally posted by mcs37:
It seems to me that Apple has the vision that the laptop is going to replace the desktop entirely one day. Evidence: 17" PowerBook.

I don't agree. You ignored what I said before: many pro users want a desktop tower system to which they can add whatever they'd like, upgrade at will, and swap components as they see fit. They want machines with RAID arrays. They want machines with more power than a laptop can provide.

While the laptop market is indeed growing -- witness Intel's Centrino launch -- I don't think they will truly replace the modern desktop system for a long, LONG time.

A desktop replacement.

The desktop replacement moniker is fine for average consumers, but when your desktop is a dual-display, dual-proc, 4 GB RAM machine with the best GPU money can buy and two RAID arrays attached to it, the label doesn't quite work. In theory it might, but in practice, no, not for a very long time -- at least not for high-end pros.

The days when towers always had to beat laptops are coming to an end.

I disagree 100%, not only for the reasons I list above, but also because the desktop form factors get the fastest fire-breathing technology because power consumption and heat output are not the engineering concerns they are when being designed for portable use. Result? Faster time-to-market and competitive advantage.

If you had a 17" powerbook with TWO 970 processors (perhaps one could shut off when running on battery), you have yourself a contender for damn-powerful machine. The width of the 17" alubook provides more than enough space to fit the second processor and additional components to complement it.

Come now, man. You're dreaming. The stupid rumor sites provide interesing mental gymnastics, but they're hardly a harbinger of reality: you're not gonna see a dual PPC970 17" PowerBook anytime soon, if ever -- and CERTAINLY not before Apple does something with it's pro desktop lineup.

Your first word above -- "if" -- tells the whole story here. IF IBM launced a dual 2.5 GHz Centrino machine then blah blah blah.

We're writing fiction here.

Apple's desktop lines aren't nearly as strong as the laptop line, but it seems to me that Apple WANTS to have enormous laptop lines.

They DO want an enormous laptop line, basically because their towers suck and laptops have to carry them until the towers can be updated to be competitive with the Wintel world. If you think Apple is content going all-laptop, towers be damned, you need to think this through again. Not everyone wants a laptop.

If the entire future of the dot-com industry right now is riding on WiFi, as CNET predicts every day, Apple will want to keep a close hold on the laptop market since it wants to increase its popularity for wireless users.

Apple doesn't have a "hold" on the laptop market; Windows notebooks dominate the laptop marketshare relative to Apple. Apple needs to stay current and competitive with new technologies and emerging standards to ensure they don't "innovate" themselves into a cubbyhole.

There's a reason why all the switchers I know buy (i|Power)Books: they want cool, powerful mobile machines.

Agreed. I have a PowerBook, and aside from the relatively sluggish performance, I absolutely love it. It's a great machine, but IN NO WAY even close to a desktop replacement. Not a chance. At least not for me.

Apple is not the leader of that front; Apple is, however, a very strong contender for the laptop line. The strongest, I think.

Disagree again. Tell me: how is Apple the leader on the laptop front, especially now that Centrino is out? Speed? Not even close. Portability? Tie. Battery life? Centrino wins. Latest hardware? Centrino again.

Apple still makes very nice laptops -- like I said, I have a 15" TiBook -- but I don't think they rule the roost like they used to. Centrino helped Wintel notebooks come of age.

[Patcarla]

From Macbidouille today:
there won't be any powerbook 970 before Q2 2004...Date of the release of the 0.09µ version of the 970. It seems that the 0.13µ is still too hot for the PB...
Link here for the ones that read french:
http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcon...003-04-10#5222

If you don't understand, ask me and I'll translate it for you..