[TheaterCub]

I ordered this PB for a graduation present to myself Though I must admit, and maybe it is the negativity of these forums, that I am both paranoid and hesitant to receive it. I so wanted this thing to be amazing and I have been thinking about getting it each day. However, some of these posts (sizzling, fan sounding like it is chopping up the mechanism, cracked screen, etc) are slowly killing my anticipation and have turned my gleaming lust into a little bit of fear. I guess what I'm asking is should I be thrilled about this machine or should I not have my hopes up and send the thing back?

This is my first mac as well--used PCs for years.

[slffl]

You should be thrilled. My 17" is also my first mac. The hardware is awesome (except for speed). There are those noises that other complain about, but they don't bother me. I have a few problems such as 1-2 small areas of dim pixels on the screen (less than a mm wide) and my DVI output is messed up and must be sent into Apple for repair. Also, be ready to be disappointed with OS X (Edit: and iLife). There are quite a few things that I have found better in XP than OSX.

Other than these things, I am for the most part pleased. I definately can not go back to anything smaller than this 17", and right now as I sit here on the couch in a dark room surfing the web wirelessly and typing on the lighted keyboard, I can't help but be happy.

[mcs37]

Originally posted by slffl:
Also, be ready to be disappointed with OS X. There are quite a few things that I have found better in XP than OSX.

There are definitely a few things about OS X that a regular XP user will have problems grasping. OS X has a great UNIX kernel under the hood and a beautiful look. Interface improvements are under way, and supposedly Panther will show off lots of improvements. One great thing about OS X is it places the XP-style "Quick Launch" icons at the bottom of the screen for _all_ major programs. My current Quick Launch has 9 items in it, and it starts to take up a significant amount of the toolbar. Kudos to Apple for glorifying Quick Launch, since I think it makes life easier.

Alt-tabbing in OS X is OK, too. iChat doesn't seem to create new program windows, so you can't alt-tab between chat windows as far as I know. That's annoying if you plan to be surfing, coding, and chatting with 3 people simultaneously: you need to whip out the mouse to switch between iChat windows. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mac veterans.

Again, I do like the UNIX kernel and the command shell. It's so great to be able to have a freshly installed computer and not have to worry about downloading an SSH client. And hardcore UNIX users know how powerful the command line can be: it's much faster than GUI operations for many things other than commands requiring incredibly long argument strings.

With all the money Apple throws towards the GUI, I am confident the interface will only improve.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by slffl:
Also, be ready to be disappointed with OS X. There are quite a few things that I have found better in XP than OSX.

Like what? Care to elaborate? I personally use both and can't think of a single feature to prefer in XP

[seanyepez]

Relax. Happy owners of 17-inch PowerBooks aren't browsing or posting to technical support forums.

[DaedalusDX]

Originally posted by mcs37:
iChat doesn't seem to create new program windows, so you can't alt-tab between chat windows as far as I know. That's annoying if you plan to be surfing, coding, and chatting with 3 people simultaneously: you need to whip out the mouse to switch between iChat windows. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mac veterans.
.

When you have the iChat application in front, you can switch between windows by using Command - ~ (tilde).

This is quickly becoming a convention in every single application in Mac OS X. Switch between applications using Command-Tab... switch between windows in the frontmost application with Command- ~.

Simple, and elegant.

[Karim]

I'm a happy 17" owner. And I do post.

[DaedalusDX]

Originally posted by slffl:
Also, be ready to be disappointed with OS X. There are quite a few things that I have found better in XP than OSX.

I respectfully disagree.

I feel that OS X is much more consistent that Windows XP... I tried using XP and just the way the Windows Explorer has up to 6 different views... not all of them useful... while Mac OS X Finder has 3 very well thought out ones... Column view comes to mind...

Its a matter of preference i suppose and what you are used to... but for me, Mac OS X dominates Windows XP in basically every area except for UI responsiveness at times... For what i do as a cs student, having a true UNIX underneath a useful user interface is incredible.

Anyway, its been some time since i've "switched" (so long that i guess i'm not even in the category...) so it must be different to someone who's working on their very first mac.

[DaedalusDX]

Originally posted by Karim:
I'm a happy 17" owner. And I do post.

Happy 17" owners just like to boast...

[MarkyP]

Originally posted by TheaterCub:
I ordered this PB for a graduation present to myself Though I must admit, and maybe it is the negativity of these forums, that I am both paranoid and hesitant to receive it. I so wanted this thing to be amazing and I have been thinking about getting it each day. However, some of these posts (sizzling, fan sounding like it is chopping up the mechanism, cracked screen, etc) are slowly killing my anticipation and have turned my gleaming lust into a little bit of fear. I guess what I'm asking is should I be thrilled about this machine or should I not have my hopes up and send the thing back?

This is my first mac as well--used PCs for years.

I know what you're going through because I went through the same thing.
I can tell you this: RELAX!!!!
A little bit of fear and anxiety is a good thing as it just makes you appreciate your powerbook so much more when you get it . You will soon realise what an amazing machine it is . I have had mine 2 weeks now and every day I appreciate it more and more . I had to wait just over 3 months for mine and these forums were killing me by the end . So many people have said it was worth the wait and I can't stress this enough : it really is ! The so called issues such as the sizzling sound are really not issues at all - you can hardly hear it . The machine is so quiet overall it's spooky . Mind you I was coming from an old clam shell iBook which now sounds very noisy to me.
So don't stress - enjoy the wait - it's a rollercoaster ride that has a great ending!

[am1ne]

First Mac as well and I am extremely happy.
Mac OSX is so cool.
Even when speed is concern it isn't too bad.

[katorga]

My 9 mo. old titanium PB is my first mac since the Quadra line, and OS X is the only reason I even considered an Apple computer. If Apple had not gone the unix route then I probably would still not have considered Apple.

Right off the bat, OS X gives you access to ports of linux and other opensource software. That is key, because the "Next Big Thing" is going to come out of the OSS movement, not Microsoft. Almost every future genius in school today is working on linux not on Windows.

[schuey100]

It annoys me when people talk about lack of 'speed'. Let's get something straight, it's not OSX that is slow, in fact it's very fast compared to OS9. It's the finder that is slow. Opening apps is faster in XP, (generally) but what counts is the speed once you have them open.

It's a big mistake, and a common one, to think that OSX is slow. It really isn't.

[nobitacu]

You will be glad you bought it, that's for sure. Don't worry, I'm sure you will have lots of fun with it.


Ming

[djjava]

First Mac since my old, old, Performa 630CD. I have twice as much RAM now as that had hard drive space.

No complaints here. Sure, there may be little things that people post about regarding their specific problems and such, but you know, it happens with all notebook computers. The differnece is, you've never bought a $3300 notebook before. It just feels lieka bigger deal, but it's all in the mind. Believe me, I've had my PB17 for a month, and I still feel weary about doing things with it, like sleeping it at night (which I have done now forthe past two days), or even installing updates, bringing it to a friends house... the lsit goes on, but every day that anxiety fades a little more. It is all mental, this over-worrying, if the machinecost $1500, there'd be less anxiety.

also, WinXP... in my mind, a HUGE step backward for Microsoft. They had foudn a winner with Win2000, but even that is stilll buggy. OSX blows it all away.. I'll never go back.

my $0.02

[ghost_flash]

Worry about going back to a windows machine.

I am a very happy and proud owner of a 17" powerbook and often lurk in here though I have not posted much since receiving my computer.

I'm too busy having fun with it! and getting things done!

I have to run XP on top of it via VPC 6.0 and just try to download something and then browse the net at the same time. CORRUPT FILE!!!! Windows BLOWS. I just use it to log into my VPN at School, they don't support MAC yet.

I leave my computer on 24/7 and the only thing that goes wrong is, I cannot keep VPC running as it will crash! LOL..... MAC OSX is the shiznit. This machine is not only beautiful but it is amazingly functional.

Speed? Shmeed!
Sure you can have a Windows machine that runs faster, and that is great while running ONE game at a time, but then just try to do "Multitasking" events, and see how yee will suffer the wrath of windows. ACK.

I've previously been a slave to MICROSOFT WINDOWS and the PC Platform for years, and have now seen the light.

The screen is BIG and Beautiful to view.

1" Thin!!!! wow.
I'm still amazed.
This is my only comptuer and I'd have it no other way.

I'm a fan of TECHTV and it makes me laugh! at how many PATCHES and Fixes they have to provide to the MS users. It's funny.

They just reviewed the 17" and couldn't say a bad thing about it, they raved! That coming from a show that makes it's money from Windows users.

I could go on and on about how my computer is rock solid and I trust it with all my work. I am no longer affraid, and save every 3 seconds just in case the OS panics and crashes all my programs because it just can't figure out who the memory stepping culprit is....

You cannot go wrong.
Unless all you do is play games....
But then isn't that what,

Playstation
X-BOX
etc... are for?

I hope this little ditty of a rant and rave helps you to make some decision.

This has been a personal oppinion and in no way reflects that of my employer!

Oh wait, I'm "in-between-jobs" at the moment.

Anyone need a decent Graphic Specialist?

[cambro]

Originally posted by slffl:
Also, be ready to be disappointed with OS X.

HA!!! That acutally made me laugh out loud. Are you sure it isn't "XP can and I don't know how on X?"

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course, but in a point-for-point show down between XP and X, I would imagine that it would be hard for an objective observer to side with XP.

Just think about this one question (which is admittedly far down on the list of benefits)...How is everything rendered on your screen in Mac OS X? If you don't know this, find it out. It's mmmmmmgooooooood. If windows did this, everything would grind to a halt.

[AssassyN]

You'll be absolutely thrilled. What you must realize is that these forums host only a tiny minority of all the 17" PB owners in the world, so for every 10 problems you hear about, there's THOUSANDS of happy, problem-free machines out there. I too switched to Mac w/ the 17" PB, and I'm hooked for life. It's the best computer I've ever used, and I'm positive you'll feel the same way. Trust me.

[slffl]

Well, for all the fanboys who can't take critizism of OS X, I'll tell you real quick a few reasons I was disappointed with OS X and also iLife which I forgot to mention (Yes I know iLife is not OS X, but from how everyone seemed to worship it, I assumed it would beat the best on the PC). I'm sure I'll forget some, but here are a few off the top of my head.

- Mapped Network drives: There are quite a few network drives at work I need to access. If I map them, and then disconnect the network connection before ejecting the drives, finder will hang until you do a soft and sometimes hard reboot.

- Finder: Has it's high points. However, still doesn't even compare to explorer. Things I miss from explorer. Thumbnails that don't need to be regenerated everytime I look in the folder. Also left hand column where I could see all the network drives, disks, etc. Makes it much faster getting around. I also couldn't find a 'detail' few in finder that lists all folders first, then files, but maybe this is an option I havn't come across yet.

- Iphoto: Takes up huge amounts of RAM. Copies pictures to it's own directory and re-organizes them into it's own folders. Prefer Adobe PhotoAlbum so far.

- Itunes: No CDDB lookup for files without the correct CDDB info. Prefer MusicMatch Jukebox in this respect.

- Imovie: Using photos is a joke. Imovie degrades the quality so bad. Even the simplest editor on PC like StudioDV could import photos fine.

- Unix: Yes I know the Unix backend is awesome. Doesn't help the Aqua frontend.

So far, because of the network drive issue and other random crashes/lockups, I've had to reboot my mac more in 2 weeks than I did my XP machine in 2 months.

And if you feel the need to respond, be sure you've USED XP!

[parsec_kadets]

Well I think some of your criticism of OS X isn't based on shortcomings of the OS, but rather your limited experience with it. You haven't had time to play around with it and find everything that mimics the features you say are lacking. There's nothing wrong with not knowing about them, but maybe you should actually try looking for a solution before you criticize. Also, iLife isn't OS X, so don't confuse the two. If you don't like iLife, then don't use it. On some other complaints you're right, and I'll point those out as well.

Originally posted by slffl:
- Mapped Network drives: There are quite a few network drives at work I need to access. If I map them, and then disconnect the network connection before ejecting the drives, finder will hang until you do a soft and sometimes hard reboot.

You're right, this shouldn't happen. I'd be the first in line to suggest some improvements to the Finder. However, those drives will eventually time out if you let it sit long enough. However, I don't feel that's an acceptable solution, and I doubt you do either.

- Finder: Has it's high points. However, still doesn't even compare to explorer. Things I miss from explorer. Thumbnails that don't need to be regenerated everytime I look in the folder. Also left hand column where I could see all the network drives, disks, etc. Makes it much faster getting around. I also couldn't find a 'detail' few in finder that lists all folders first, then files, but maybe this is an option I havn't come across yet.

You're right on the thumbnails. As for a listing of the drives, just open any Finder window then choose View > Customize Toolbar. You'll get a listing of some default folders and such, but you can also drag any folder to the top bar to have it listed there. This is actually more flexible than what's available in XP since you can't add and subtract to that one. You have no say in what is displayed in XP's left column. As for listing folders first, open any Finder window and choose View > Show View Options (or just press command+j). Mark "Keep Arranged By:" then choose Kind. If you make sure you apply that to all windows then folders will always be listed before files.

- Iphoto: Takes up huge amounts of RAM. Copies pictures to it's own directory and re-organizes them into it's own folders. Prefer Adobe PhotoAlbum so far.

I agree that iPhoto needs improvement. However, I think its file organization is a nice feature. It means I don't have to worry about where to download my photos. Just plug in the camera and let the computer take care of it. If you don't like it though, you can always make a suggestion to Apple by choosing iPhoto > Provide iPhoto Feedback. Apple does actually listen to these.

- Itunes: No CDDB lookup for files without the correct CDDB info. Prefer MusicMatch Jukebox in this respect.

I've never run into this personally. MusicMatch Jukebox is available for OS X I believe, you might want to check into that if you haven't already. You could also make a suggestion by following the same process as iPhoto.

- Imovie: Using photos is a joke. Imovie degrades the quality so bad. Even the simplest editor on PC like StudioDV could import photos fine.

I personally never use iMovie since I don't have a digital camcorder. Have you actually finished creating the movie though? iMovie reduces the quality of the playback while you're editing in the interest of time. Several people have complained about graininess and jerkiness as well, but that usually goes away in the final product.

So far, because of the network drive issue and other random crashes/lockups, I've had to reboot my mac more in 2 weeks than I did my XP machine in 2 months.

If you're really having to restart that often because of the network drive issue, perhaps you should find a better way of reminding yourself to eject those disks. I have a feeling you're having random crashes due to not shutting down properly because of that. As for fixing the random crashes, insert the software restore DVD into your drive, then restart the computer. During startup hold down the C key. This will force the machine to boot from the DVD and run the OS X installer. Once the installer is loaded, click the installer menu. You should see an option to launch Disk Utility. Do that and go to the First Aid tab. Then repair your disk and restart the machine like you normally would. I think you'll find this will solve most of your random crash issues. I think it's unfortunate that a restart is required to perform what Windows users would call a scan disk, but that comes from Unix.

[slffl]

Nice reply parsec, thanks.

The network drives will timeout, but from what I remember, right when I go back and try to eject the drive again, I get the pinwheel before I can do it, and it just keeps repeating like this. And I do eject the drives now, but it took a week to figure out this was the cause. Also, there are around 8 network drives I need to connect to. Is there a way to do this automatically with one click or something (yes or no is fine)? Or do I need to map each one every morning?

Which I just remembered, I will have to reinstall/repair the os because the installer.app seems to be corrumpted or something. It was working fine at first, now any app that starts to install crashes right after I put in my admin password.

And after figuring out the network issue, the crashes appear to be random more than anything. Sometimes I'll get a pinwheel in safari, sometimes Ichat, sometimes messenger, sometimes konfabulator,etc. Seems to happen after it has been asleep at least once.

Anyway, all I'm saying is I think OS X is a little overhyped. I was expecting something that was almost crashproof and efficient, but this isn't what I believe I got. Just saying to the switchers, don't get your hopes up too high (unless all you're doing is mail,web, etc).

I still LOVE the hardware though.

[spaced]

Originally posted by slffl:
Anyway, all I'm saying is I think OS X is a little overhyped. I was expecting something that was almost crashproof and efficient, but this isn't what I believe I got. Just saying to the switchers, don't get your hopes up too high (unless all you're doing is mail,web, etc).

Manual transmission cars aren't crashproof or efficient if you don't know how to drive them...

Just put forth a bit of effort and accept the fact that there is a learning curve. It's a totally different world.

[swsteckly]

Would people get off the fricken cracked screen already? The guy obviously either screwed something up really bad, or it was a totally freak incident.

What about fans? You mean that one guy that said his was noisy?

There's nothing to worry about. How many thousands of 17" powerbook have been sold? How many people have reported problems? FIVE?

Give me a break.

If there were HUNDREDS of reports of problems, that doesn't mean there is any trouble anywhere. People who report on forums are rarely reporting GOOD, PROBLEM-FREE experiences, but rather requesting help for trouble.

BTW, nothing is better than OS X.

[spaced]

Originally posted by swsteckly:
Would people get off the fricken cracked screen already? The guy obviously either screwed something up really bad, or it was a totally freak incident.

My take on this incident... it was his own fault that he cracked the screen and Apple said they weren't going to replace it under warranty. So he gets pissed, writes up a webpage with his sob story, and posts the link all over the web in the hopes that he will generate enough buzz that Apple will replace his screen just to shut him up. I have seen links to his story EVERYWHERE.

[swsteckly]

Isn't that the truth!

His story about it not being his fault seems very suspicious to me. You can twist the screen on a TiBook (accidently) severly, and nothing happens other than a distortion. I'm not saying his story couldn't be true, but it probably isn't.

Any why is he so interested in broadly publicizing his story?

I see links to it everywhere. It seems like everyone is trying to say:

'Look! Look! It's a faulty product!'

When the reality is that it's at worst a blatant lie, and at best a freak, one-of-a-kind accident.

I'd like to hear from someone well-versed in LCD manufacturing, to see if something like this is even possible. He claims that the hinge 'stuck'. That sucker would have to be locked, and ripped from the computer before the amount of force necessary to cause that kind of damage would be applied.

[swsteckly]

Upon further thought, I think I know what it's from. I remember looking at one of those 'PowerBook run over by car' threads, and the screen on those looked EXACTLY like the one in his picture. I'm not saying it was run over, but some kind of large force was applied.

[wuf810]

back to the main topic.

I too have been anticipating my powerbook's arrival with a mix of fear and excitement.

Just arrived and apart from the initial thought (god its hugh - which strangely wears off pretty quickly) it really is fantastic. Can't wait to get it fully set up and start using it in ernest.

So my opinion would be for you to look forward to it and then enjoy it.

Michael.

[OSXFreak]

I'd have to agree with slffl on the stability whilst using Windows network shares (I presume that's what you were doing?) - My OSX gets pretty unstable whenever I connect to an SMB network share. Spinning pinwheel etc. This really is something that Apple needs to address in 10.3.

However, that aside, I find OS X is great - at first it was like trying to work with boxing gloves on, but now - I really hate going back to XP - it's not that XP is bad - it's not - it's just that I personally find OS X more inviting and fun to use.

And I have to say that I find Safari equally as fast as my PC running ie 6 (XP2100+,512Mb) over my 1Mb 'net connection. However, Photoshop on a Mac is probably 50% slower on most filters than an Athlon XP+ running at 1500Mhz. I'd have to question the validity of Apple's claims in this area.