[wallinbl]

When the Ti Gigabook w/SuperDrive came out, it was much loved. Everyone thought it was fantastic.

Now, the AlBooks are out, and people here act like the Ti is the plague. Are the AlBooks that much better?

I'm desperately hoping the 15" goes Aluminum in the next two weeks (because that's when I'm buying) simply because I like the ports on the side and the Airport Extreme. However, I'm buying in two weeks, update or no update.

[mrmister]

No, it isn't all that much different, unless you really need Bluetooth built-in or Airport Extreme.

[- - e r i k - -]

Well it was that issue with the scratching...

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Well it was that issue with the scratching...

and the bending, and the port cover on the back that's cheap, and the hinges for the screen

[wanderlust]

And the faulty CD/DVD drives.

[wanderlust]

And the keyboard scratching permanent marks in the screen.

[wanderlust]

And the paint falling off in flakes leaving ugly metalic bare spots all over your costly machine.

[y2kerr]

So I guess you guys are saying it is that bad?

I think I'll wait for the update 15" AlBook myself. What are the latest guesstimates for it's release?

[wanderlust]

Oh, did I mention the cracking? That's right, big grand canyon cracks in the plastic parts around the corners and the grill. This happened with mine and to three other TiBook owning friends. I think this had to do with the fact that the Titanium would bend but was so strong it put undue stress on the plastic rims. I really should post photos of my poor TiBook so you can see what I"m talking about. Perhaps I can get my friends to give me their photos as well. Yes, my friend, if you're going to put out the money for the 15er, wait for the redesign.

[icruise]

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say the Tibook was "bad" but if you can possibly wait for the new 15" you'd be a fool not to.

[William_F_House]

My wife and I both previously owned Ti-books (a 500mhz model and a 1Ghz Superdrive model). They served us well and we never had any of the known issues with either of them (paint flaking, etc.).

However, we both have new 'Books now (a 12" and a 17") and I have to say that they're vastly superior in build and quality. I can't imagine having to go back to a Ti now.

"Bad" is subjective, but the fact that these new models are much better is just that....a fact.

[GENERAL_SMILEY]

Has there been a noticeable decline in pricing for second hand Ti books since the new releases?

Presumably they will get even cheaper when the new Al 15s come out - opinions?

[BrunoBruin]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
Now, the AlBooks are out, and people here act like the Ti is the plague. Are the AlBooks that much better?

Pffft. If I were buying today I'd take the Ti over either of the newer models. The ONLY thing I prefer about the 12/17 is the hinge design. But if that means having ports on the sides, forget it. If the technical specs of the next 15s aren't compelling, I'm getting a SuperDrive Ti on closeout.

[threestain]

Well I have just got a TiBook, and I have to say that coming from the PC world, none of it is cheap in build quality, especially when compared to my housemates new pc laptops - it looks, feels, and just is better overall.

Bear in mind that whenever the new update is introduced it will have all the usual revision A issues. Therefore, you can get a revision D TiBook, or a rev A AlBook.

Up to you - and frankly whether or not you can wait - I personally could not so TiBook it is!

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
If the technical specs of the next 15s aren't compelling, I'm getting a SuperDrive Ti on closeout.

I have found the closeout prices for Macs to be lousy. Seems like you only get it for $100 less.

[urrl5201]

I think the Ti was visionary and we really, truly wowed it in it's time. But there were structural imperfections that came with the design technology. Open the trunk to my '93 Camaro and rain water DRAINS into the car; a design imperfection even when new. The hinge on the Ti is stiff compared to the Aluminum 17" and not as well designed. Many times I would open it quickly, smoothly with worry, to avoid undue stress on the hinges. Good for it's time, but times change. I would never think of going back to the Ti era. That would be like me buying another brand new '93 Camaro when it is 2003 and accepting all of its design imperfections which were improved upon in later models. I loved my 667 DVI, but times and needs change. I definitely needed DVD-R and a more all around solid laptop, among other things. No regrets with the 17"; it really fits the bill, and will be a keeper for at least 3 more years, more than I can say for my 500 and 667 Ti models.

[BrunoBruin]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
I have found the closeout prices for Macs to be lousy. Seems like you only get it for $100 less.

On the cheaper models, like the iBooks, yes. But the PowerBooks and towers usually drop $300 or so, IIRC. My 667 was $2,499 new and I think the closeout price was $2,199, and then dropped to $1,999 at the resellers that still had new ones in stock.

[Eug]

If I had to choose between the Ti and the 17" Al today, I'd get the Ti.

The Al is much more expensive for what you get (same burner, same drive, same CPU), and I actually prefer a smaller screen because it's much more portable.

No paint or real scratch issues yet, but then I've only had mine 5 months.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
and the bending, and the port cover on the back that's cheap, and the hinges for the screen

Oh the hinges.

I dropped my TiBook down from about a 30 cm. Would have been fine (I've dropped it out of my bag while running for the bus, and it skidded across the tarmac without getting other damage than a bit of scratching), but I was unlucky and it landed so that the hinge snapped. And then it all came apart. Some of the cables broke and I can barely see the screen anymore. Would have cost me a brand new iBook to replace it. So I didn't.

I can't wait for a more sturdy powerbook (one more week now...)

[k2director]

I have little to complain about re: the Ti. I had the Ti 800 for about a year, and then the Ti 1Ghz/SD since January.

The Ti is a **great** machine. I've personally never had the problems noted in this thread (except paint chips on the Ti800, which Applecare fixed with via a new case).

Personally, I think the Ti 1Ghz is a machine that has really hit its stride, but the Alu 17" hasn't yet. With the Alu, you give up appreciable battery life, low weight and convenient size, but the jump in screen res isn't THAT great. For instance, the extra pixels you get in Final Cut Pro are not enough to make an appreciable difference for me over my Ti. The Alu needs more vertical pixels to really give me bigger Viewer/Canvas windows, and more viewable tracks on the Timeline. Right now, the 17" has only 46 more vertical pixels than the Ti--just not enough to make a significant impact for the work I do. And gaining 160 pixels on the horizontal only gives me a longer timeline, and maybe an extra column in my Browser, but that's not a huge benefit.

Anyway, I think Apple will do more with the 17" in the next 2 product revs--ie, 2x or 4x SuperDrive, faster graphics chip, longer battery life, and hopefully a 1600x1024 screen res, or somewhere in that area. Until then, I think the Ti still has the best blend of power, battery life and weight....that is, until a 15" Alubook comes along!

[shrink]

I recently sold my 15" 1Ghz TiBook and am now using a 17" PB. In terms of the regular computing tasks I do, the performance is very similar. However, I still think the 15" is a very good machine, especially in terms of size and weight, which are IMHO ideal. The only issue I had were the noisy fans, which in my case were quite loud, but if you read these boards this is not a problem all TiBook owners have.

The main reason I upgraded was cost. I recently learned about the ADC discount through these boards and will be graduating this month, so I figured I might as well take advantage. That said, I do prefer using the 17". As others have mentioned the design just seems better (e.g., noise, finish, heat, airport reception, etc.) and the extra features (FW800, bluetooth, airport extreme) are nice to have, but in no way is the 15" a bad machine.

If you can wait, I bet if a 15" AlBook is released, it will be awesome. However, I've heard some universities were selling the current 15" TiBook with AppleCare between $2000 - $2500. At those prices, it would be a great value. On quick side note, my fiancee bought a 400 Mhz Pismo on clearance after the 1st gen TiBooks were released for only $1700. That computer is still in use and is serving her quite well. I think the clearance idea is quite a good one, but I suggest when you're ready to buy get the best you can afford. Good luck with your decision.

[Eug]

Anyway, I think Apple will do more with the 17" in the next 2 product revs--ie, 2x or 4x SuperDrive, faster graphics chip, longer battery life, and hopefully a 1600x1024 screen res, or somewhere in that area.

I doubt we'll get a 4X SuperDrive, even by the end of 2004. Longer battery life maybe, but I think one of the major problems is simply the weight. The 17" already weighs 6.8 lbs. A bigger battery might knock it into the 7+ lbs category.

[urrl5201]

Battery life is no way a priority with me. I look at my 17" as a portable desktop and take it to work or where ever and plug it in. I hardly ever use it on my lap and I hardly ever used the battery OR worked with my old 15" 667 DVI on my lap. I guess this is why I know the 17" is so much better for my needs. If my job had me taking trains and planes perhaps my requirements would be different. For me the 17" is the best choice, hands down.

[mrmister]

The last generation TiBooks really don't suffer from all this endless "chipping, flaking, collapsing" malarkey...but if you can wait, do so.

[wanderlust]

Originally posted by urrl5201:
I think the Ti was visionary and we really, truly wowed it in it's time. But there were structural imperfections that came with the design technology. Open the trunk to my '93 Camaro and rain water DRAINS into the car; a design imperfection even when new. The hinge on the Ti is stiff compared to the Aluminum 17" and not as well designed. Many times I would open it quickly, smoothly with worry, to avoid undue stress on the hinges. Good for it's time, but times change. I would never think of going back to the Ti era. That would be like me buying another brand new '93 Camaro when it is 2003 and accepting all of its design imperfections which were improved upon in later models. I loved my 667 DVI, but times and needs change. I definitely needed DVD-R and a more all around solid laptop, among other things. No regrets with the 17"; it really fits the bill, and will be a keeper for at least 3 more years, more than I can say for my 500 and 667 Ti models.

Well said. I agree.

[icruise]

Originally posted by Eug:
If I had to choose between the Ti and the 17" Al today, I'd get the Ti.

The Al is much more expensive for what you get (same burner, same drive, same CPU), and I actually prefer a smaller screen because it's much more portable.

This isn't really the question at hand, though, is it? We're talking about the Ti vs (and admittedly still hypothetical) 15" Aluminum powerbook. And in that case I find it had to recommend the Ti over the Al.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Icruise:
This isn't really the question at hand, though, is it? We're talking about the Ti vs (and admittedly still hypothetical) 15" Aluminum powerbook. And in that case I find it had to recommend the Ti over the Al.

Well, to be honest, I would be very surprised if the 15" AluBook will be even announced in the next 2 weeks.

If the original poster needs something right now, then the 15" Al isn't an option. But if he can wait, that's fine too.

[solagratia1600]

Hi all

reading from what most of you wrote, there are good points. Though, I find that it is very easy to get dissatisfied with what we have. I have a Titanium 550mhz PBook. I have the minor scratch problem, and a little paint chip on the hinge. It has what some of the guys called Hoover fan sound. It has the keyboard prints after a while if I don't wipe it down (Now I just use a piece of soft cloth to cover the keyboard and this solves the problem). If there is an opportunity for upgrade, I will go for it. But I learn that its not that bad of a machine. Its on the slow side, it seems like a lot of you here have faster processors. I think when you really give thanks for what you have, it changes your view on what you own. I am not denying that there are some serious problems with the Ti production. But some problems are minor, other than the serious cracks and major paint flakes.

I guess if the machine serves you well in what you do, it is a good machine, until the day it gets traded in or sold off, or expires. :-)

I love my TiBook. Just my thoughts.

[RooneyX]

Just want to make an example of how people worship labels or whatever they sacrifice their time and money on. As I went through three TiBooks I always complained about the faults on each and each time I would get shouted down by Mac worshippers. When the Alubooks come out suddenly everyone agrees the Tis had big problems.

BTW, my PB17 has a little scratch and when it gets hot it warps a little! Otherwise it's the most perfect laptop I've ever used.

[wallinbl]

I have to say that this is the most trouble I've ever had deciding on a laptop. I'd really like a 15" Al. There are just drawbacks to all three for me right now, but come next week, I'll be buying something. I can't even get it narrowed down to 2 of the 3. How pathetic is that?

12" - don't like the screen resolution, but otherwise like the price.
15" - no AE, bluetooth only via dongle (don't like that at all). price so-so.
17" - like the screen res, don't like the price.

I keep thinking that I should just get the 12" so that I can get more software (FCE, MM Studio MX, MS Office). The 15" will likely cause me to drop MM Studio. If I buy the 17", it will mean no extra software right now. I can buy more software in the future, but Office and MM Studio have significant discounts for buying with a new Mac.

Argh! This whole thing is killing me. Just give me the 15" Al (without raising the price) and let me be happy!

[wanderlust]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
I have to say that this is the most trouble I've ever had deciding on a laptop. I'd really like a 15" Al. There are just drawbacks to all three for me right now, but come next week, I'll be buying something. I can't even get it narrowed down to 2 of the 3. How pathetic is that?

12" - don't like the screen resolution, but otherwise like the price.
15" - no AE, bluetooth only via dongle (don't like that at all). price so-so.
17" - like the screen res, don't like the price.

I keep thinking that I should just get the 12" so that I can get more software (FCE, MM Studio MX, MS Office). The 15" will likely cause me to drop MM Studio. If I buy the 17", it will mean no extra software right now. I can buy more software in the future, but Office and MM Studio have significant discounts for buying with a new Mac.

Argh! This whole thing is killing me. Just give me the 15" Al (without raising the price) and let me be happy!

Heh, I feel for you. I've been there. However, my advice is get the most hardware you can afford now. Reason being is that software can easily be obtained at a later time while it's a little more difficult, and more costly, to obtain a screen upgrade or any hardware upgrades for that matter.

Frankly, because of the incentive bundle prices for MX, et al. when buying a new computer, I would purchase the most hardware I could afford, then borrow a little money for the software from friends or family, paying them off, with interest if need be, as soon as you can. If you are good at money matters, you can make it a cheaper proposition in the long run and you'll be maximizing all of your best options. Superior machine + best price for software.

I know of no one that has said, "Darn, I wish I would have gotten the dinkier machine" but I very often hear, "Dang, I should have bought the better machine when I had the chance."

Hope that helps clarify things a little.

[craigthomas]

Originally posted by Eug:
If I had to choose between the Ti and the 17" Al today, I'd get the Ti.

The Al is much more expensive for what you get (same burner, same drive, same CPU), and I actually prefer a smaller screen because it's much more portable.

No paint or real scratch issues yet, but then I've only had mine 5 months.

Feel the same. I bought a PowerBook to be portable. The 17 is GIANT. Can't imagine sitting on the couch as I am now with that horse on my lap. That's me, and I know there are a bunch of 17 owners that would differ. But to buy or not to buy a PowerBook Tibook now is a tough decision. I actually have no issues with my 15 1Ghz. Can's say enough about it. So,It would depend on how often you upgrade your machines. I tend to buy a new machine once a year or so. The next time I buy a PowerBook, I hope to have the PPC 970 (up to 1.8 GHz) in it. I think we're moths away from that announcement, and more till they actually ship. So, knowing what I know now with this super machine, I'd probaly buy now too. Then, if the AI 15 comes out in 3-4 months or more, and if the power is a substantial difference, I'd figure a way to upgrade the Tibook then.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by wanderlust:
Frankly, because of the incentive bundle prices for MX, et al. when buying a new computer, I would purchase the most hardware I could afford, then borrow a little money for the software from friends or family, paying them off, with interest if need be, as soon as you can. If you are good at money matters, you can make it a cheaper proposition in the long run and you'll be maximizing all of your best options. Superior machine + best price for software.

It's not about not having enough money. It's about not wanting to spend it on this.

You have to ask yourself if the 17" is really worth $1300 more than the 12". 1024x768 isn't great, but it might be enough when I'm on the road. I have a 19" monitor at home and at work that I will be using with the laptop. So, the screen resolution becomes less of a factor. Does the 17" have a longer useful life than the 12"? Probably not. When the 970/etc push up to 3GHz or more, 133MHz difference will be nominal.

Sure, the 17" has a wow factor, and it has more pixels. Outside of that, it doesn't offer that much more.

[MacNStein]

I was in the same boat and decided on the 12. I use an 18" FP at home and it's beautiful. Also, I took some of the $ I saved and maxed out my RAM and bought 2 80GB 2.5" IBM HDs (one for the PB and one for a FW enclosure). That gives me 160GB of storage on the road in a truly ultra-portable setup. I couldn't be happier with my choice.

I get between 3.5-4 hours on battery, which to me is quite acceptable.

[wanderlust]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
It's not about not having enough money. It's about not wanting to spend it on this.

You have to ask yourself if the 17" is really worth $1300 more than the 12". 1024x768 isn't great, but it might be enough when I'm on the road. I have a 19" monitor at home and at work that I will be using with the laptop. So, the screen resolution becomes less of a factor. Does the 17" have a longer useful life than the 12"? Probably not. When the 970/etc push up to 3GHz or more, 133MHz difference will be nominal.

Sure, the 17" has a wow factor, and it has more pixels. Outside of that, it doesn't offer that much more.

Well it sounds like you're coming closer to making your choice by ruling out the 17"! Best of luck and have fun with your new computer!

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by wanderlust:
Well it sounds like you're coming closer to making your choice by ruling out the 17"! Best of luck and have fun with your new computer!

Nah. Just yesterday I was leaning the other way. Depends on my mood.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
It's not about not having enough money. It's about not wanting to spend it on this.

You have to ask yourself if the 17" is really worth $1300 more than the 12". 1024x768 isn't great, but it might be enough when I'm on the road. I have a 19" monitor at home and at work that I will be using with the laptop. So, the screen resolution becomes less of a factor. Does the 17" have a longer useful life than the 12"? Probably not. When the 970/etc push up to 3GHz or more, 133MHz difference will be nominal.

Sure, the 17" has a wow factor, and it has more pixels. Outside of that, it doesn't offer that much more.

DVI out and the ability to drive a Cinema display is HUGE to me. The 12" is VGA only and... no thanks I'll never be using a CRT again, for anything.

[Raidiant]

Ridiculous, non of the 12" or 17" owners have been using it for more then half an year, what will be broken or noticed remains unknown. The tibook was much worshipped during the first few months before the problems started appearing.

I've got a friend with a 17 inch PB, and alreadi it has a few scratches on it, everything will scratch nobody should expect a perfect product, even a ibook will deteorate in appearance over time.

Afterall we are putting versus on a machine of today agasint a machine that was produced almost 2 years ago, whatever product you compare PC, PDA, displays will have changed into something better.

The Tibook was fantastic for its time, and still is quite good for today, the Alubook is meant to be its succesor thats why its better then the Tibook, if it wasn't then what would be the point of new technology.

From my standpoint a 15 inch update is requires, 12 is too small , 17 is too big and 15 doesn't offer the extended vireless range and the new stuff.

I suppose this is marketing strategy, since they have changed ibook's casing to completely white, to further differenciate from the 12" PB, to boost sales, the 15" was not updated to produce sales in the 17" department, otherwise if both was 1GHZ and had AE and BT whats the point of the 17" apart of the screen.

If nobody buy the 17" then Apple will lose market appearance and their market value will go down, because people thinks Appl has failed again, but due to the extensive marketing strategy Apple has succeded in producing 12" and 17" PB, because people had no other choice.

[Karim]

I loved my Ti's... Especially the 800DVI. I've owned several TI's and I think they were great computers. They gave me the confidence to completely jettison all non-server desktops.

I have a 17" AL now and I think it is awesome too. But, it was not as much a trendsetter as the Ti was.

When the Ti was introduced the Lombard G3/500 was the current model. It was quite an improvement in alot of areas. G4 processor, thin metallic form factor, 15" screen, thin, thin thin... And on a scale of 1-10, this goes to eleven.

When the Al was introduced I got a bigger screen, a slightly fudged form factor, and integrated bluetooth and faster 802.11x wireless.

I welcome the improvements, but my previous 1GHZ Ti with SD had 75% of what this baby has.

Next on the list is the 17" Powerbook with the 970 perhaps/probably AKA G5.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by wanderlust:
Well it sounds like you're coming closer to making your choice by ruling out the 17"! Best of luck and have fun with your new computer!

I got the smack in the head that I needed today. My daughter's Social Security card came in the mail. I had been waiting for this because I can't set up her 529 account (college savings) without it. I realized that I'd rather just get the 12" and put more into her college savings.

So, I ordered the 12" (SD/640/60/AE) this morning. Screen is a little small, but I don't think that is going to bother that much. I think part of my problem was a desire to have the biggest & best, even though I don't really need it.

[wilsonX]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
I got the smack in the head that I needed today. My daughter's Social Security card came in the mail. I had been waiting for this because I can't set up her 529 account (college savings) without it. I realized that I'd rather just get the 12" and put more into her college savings.

So, I ordered the 12" (SD/640/60/AE) this morning. Screen is a little small, but I don't think that is going to bother that much. I think part of my problem was a desire to have the biggest & best, even though I don't really need it.

You rock! Your daughter has a very smart father.

[seanyepez]

If a 15-inch, aluminum-cased PowerBook is in the works, it will be announced at the very end of June or the beginning of July. The Apple employee promotion ends on June 27th.

[SSharon]

wallinbl: great move getting the 12" PB. Another good way to save money is do what my dad did for me, he said I'll give you X amount of dollars, you find a Mac and pay any difference. I gladly took the money and then spent a few hundred more for a dual 1ghz MDD, which I have with me at school. Now for you when your daughter goes to school just give her your old 12" PB and buy yourself a new one, good investment as I see it. On another note, thinking about 12, 15, and 17" powerbooks reminds me of when the early G3 ones came out and there were 12, 13 and 14" models. soon afterwards only the 12 and 14" remained in the revision 2 and then only the 14" with the Lombard and Pismo. Does anyone else here think we have too many screen sizes and that the 970's should be 13" and 16" only? just a thought.

[MusicalTone]

congrats on the new purchase. Hope you are enjoying it. I must say I was taken aback by somre of the more negative comments about the 15" SD, as having bought one 5 or 6 months ago my experience has been nothing short of first rate. I saw the 12" at an Apple store recently and my first reaction was tha the screen, apart from being small, didnt have very good resoolution/contrast. The Aluminium casing looked pretty cool and more durable than my Ti, but hey this is a compuuter we are taling about here, not an off-road 4x4. Rugeddness aside, I still really like the *look* of the Ti. Lets face it, Apple has made some really excellent products and how many of us wouldnt mind owning all of them if money were no object! Alas, in the real world my planned upgrade cycle is 20" screen next, then a 970 desktop tower next year, hopefully followed by a 15" Albook, when it is time for me to upgrade my Ti, which I am hoping wont be for another couple of years yet.

Enjoy.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by SSharon:
Now for you when your daughter goes to school just give her your old 12" PB and buy yourself a new one, good investment as I see it.

Um, he just got his daughter's SSN. Probably means she is very young. By the time she gets ready to go to college, the 12" PB will be ANCIENT technology

[Holy Zoo]

Originally posted by mrmister:
The last generation TiBooks really don't suffer from all this endless "chipping, flaking, collapsing" malarkey...but if you can wait, do so.

Oh yes it does! My 1ghz TiBook's paint has just started to peel around the cd drive, and the door of the card slot is tarnishing green (copper paint underneath oxidizing?).

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by Person Man:
Um, he just got his daughter's SSN. Probably means she is very young. By the time she gets ready to go to college, the 12" PB will be ANCIENT technology

True. She's 5 weeks old. It may be a while before she has use for a laptop.

[SSharon]

they do have that screen saver for babies, if she doesn't start with mac now, you may lose her to those other evil forces and their PC empire. that and macs last a long time, but I guess you're all right, maybe it is a bit early.

[chrisutley]

I've owned probably 15-20 Macs, and the 667 DVI is the best Mac I have ever owned laptop or otherwise.

Apple isn't getting another nickel from me until they ship something with a real processor in it.