[Danny]

I'm looking to put together a mobile studio. This is my planned setup:

Powerbook 12"/17"
MOTU 828MKII Firewire audio interface
Edirol PCR-50 Midi Keyboard
Reason
Cubase/Logic

I will basically use it for two things.
1. Recording up to 8 channels of analog audio.
For this I'm sure the 12" will be more than enough.

2. Reason rewired into Cubase/Logic, running a bunch of soft synths and effects.

But what about number 2. Would the 12" be enough for a decent setup? How much would the L3 cache of the 17" improve performance?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Danny

[mattnl]

But what about number 2. Would the 12" be enough for a decent setup? How much would the L3 cache of the 17" improve performance?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Danny

i think the 17" would be better for this use. i run cubase on my 17" and it's great, but with the 12" you'll run into limitations with effects and vsti's. the L3 cache and the faster ram will make a huge difference. the whole system bus of the 17" is faster. when you're going to be dealing with large amounts of audio i'd say go for the faster machine. you'll be happier over all.

matt.

[mosch]

Originally posted by Danny:
I'm looking to put together a mobile studio. This is my planned setup:

Powerbook 12"/17"
MOTU 828MKII Firewire audio interface
Edirol PCR-50 Midi Keyboard
Reason
Cubase/Logic

I will basically use it for two things.
1. Recording up to 8 channels of analog audio.
For this I'm sure the 12" will be more than enough.

2. Reason rewired into Cubase/Logic, running a bunch of soft synths and effects.

But what about number 2. Would the 12" be enough for a decent setup? How much would the L3 cache of the 17" improve performance?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Danny

For this purpose, I'd definitely recommend the 17". The L3, the extra CPU, and the extra couple hundred megs of faster RAM are likely to help a lot with your second requirement.

I just tried running Reason and Logic in roughly the same way you described (PB12, 640 RAM) and I was running right near the ragged edge, without doing anything to purposefully load the machine. (The same music puts my 1Ghz G4 to about 60%)

[+ spiral +]

-oops-

[+ spiral +]

Originally posted by mosch:
I just tried running Reason and Logic in roughly the same way you described (PB12, 640 RAM) and I was running right near the ragged edge

Mosch, not being familiar with this stuff, what is it in Reason that taxes the processor so much? Is it how Logic is optimized that is a problem as well? What were you running?

[wallinbl]

Why have you eliminated the 15" from your options? It is an excellent laptop that meets your processor needs for less than the 17".

[fldsfslmn]

danny,

don't be fooled by mac forums. the first thing to remember is whenever you ask a question, people will always suggest the MOST EXPENSIVE option. i don't believe the 17" is much better suited to what you're doing. half the people who say "buy the 17!!!!!" are actually typing to you from their lovely ibook 600mhz which they're always happy to go on record about "what a capable machine it is".

part of this, i think, is mac users are like heroin addicts -- they delight in welcoming new users into the fold and relish seeing someone with a more expensive and consuming habit than their own.

i am purchasing the 12" powerbook and plan to use it in a very similar fashion to you (motu 828 might have to wait a bit, though). if you can manage without the extra screen real estate it will be a very capable machine.

save yourself the money. the 17" won't make you a better musician, nor will it provide an added boost to the ego and social status (as most 17" powerbook owners seem to believe).

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by fldsfslmn:
i am purchasing the 12" powerbook and plan to use it in a very similar fashion to you (motu 828 might have to wait a bit, though). if you can manage without the extra screen real estate it will be a very capable machine.

save yourself the money. the 17" won't make you a better musician, nor will it provide the illusion of increased penile girth (as most 17" powerbook owners seem to believe).

The screen real estate is an issue that you should see for yourself. Head down to an Apple Store or a CompUSA and take a look at the screens. Open a few apps and see how much room there is on each screen. I love everything about the 12" except the screen res.

[fldsfslmn]

yeah, doing something like multitrack recording could be a bit of a pain in the ass.

my thought is that when i am "afield" i will primarily just be getting the tracks down into the HD ... "letting the tape roll" as it were, so i won't really need to examine many things side-by-side or top-to-bottom. when i will need a lot more screen res. is during the mixing process which i will likely do at home, with the powerbook plugged into my 19" monitor.

[IngridCold]

Deffinately go for the 17"!

I had the same doubts as you. I went down to the local Apple retailer and checked out the 12". I know I'll probably get flamed now, but I was quite dissapointed with it. First of all I simply think the screen is too small. On my laptop setup I work with Reason rewired to Cubase SX and the screen is simply to small for that. Of course that's just my opinion.
Second, i wasn't too impressed with it's performance. It only had 256MB ram though. That should certainly be increased to max! Why do they ship it with som little ram??? But overall performance was kind of sluggish.

They didn't have any 17" on display and at that time I hadn't seen one in person, but I decided to wait and check that out. I'm so happy I did that.

When they got one in I went down to play with it for an hour or so. I ordered one before i left. I have had it for about a month and I'm very pleased with it. I should say that in my studio setup I have 2 21" crt's hooked up to my G4 running Pro Tools and Cubase. Which is probably a contributing factor to why I was so turned off by the 12".

About performace, I have made a few tracks that pushed the system so much it couldn't play back decent. I got cracks, pops and timing problems. Luckily i was able to bounce the projects to AIFF file without the artifacts. But it really convinces me that it was the right choice not to consider the 12" for this. I have 1Gb ram...

My advice, once again, is to go with the 17" if you are going to do more than just record a few tracks of audio.


fldsfslmn: What the hell are you talking about? Do you work in recording/producing/song writing on a professionel level? I doubt it....
You're right that a computer (whatever brand or model) won't make you a better musician. But people have different needs. Who are you to say why people do or don't buy particular powerbooks???????????? Maybe the 12" is perfectly good for your needs, but that may not be the case for all of us. I really hate comments like that. What the problem? Couldn't afford the 17"?

Wise up kid!

[dettociao]

Originally posted by IngridCold:
What the problem? Couldn't afford the 17"?

Wise up kid!

I could afford the 17" and decided to go with the 12". Why? Portability. Not everyone wants to lug around some huge notebook-- specially one that won't fit in a nice small backpack.

Get over yourself "kid" and realize that having a big expensive notebook doesn't make you any better than anyone else.

[fldsfslmn]

thank you. that was exactly my point.

[fisherKing]

i'm doing such work now on my *snif* pismo.
sure, sometimes i overload the pb, but...sometimes.

reason is pretty easy on the pb; start using a lot of the "malstrom" tho and you may have processor problems.

logic is a bit more demanding, altho 6.0 offers some improvements on processor load (i'm running 5.5)

the 12" should do just fine; the 17" will do somewhat better.

either way, you win.

[dialo]

15". Why get anything else for audio? It's faster than both and is the perfect size.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by dialo:
15". Why get anything else for audio? It's faster than both and is the perfect size.

That's what I don't get. To read this thread, you would think it didn't exist anymore.

[fisherKing]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
That's what I don't get. To read this thread, you would think it didn't exist anymore.

i agree that the 15" is a good median between the two...
but this guy is looking at the alubooks, and wants some advice base on that.

btw the 15" is not faster than the 17"...just lighter!

if a truly portable studio is the goal, the 12" is a pretty nice machine. if there's a road crew to carry it ( ) the 17" can't be beat...

[GENERAL_SMILEY]

Just last night my friend was showing me Cubase and Reason (wired together - terminology?), anyway I normally work with stills and video, so had no real idea about these apps, but the first thing which struck me was amount of screen estate these things need.

Maybe it's not neccesary, but it looks like to me, based on just screen size, you should go with the 17 inch, even if you plan on using it with a second monitor, and screen spanning apps like Final Cut Pro is epic (timeline on one screen, output on another etc...), it isn't until you realise that having such a large screen on your laptop means you don't have to be in your studio - a whole new work experience - that it really come into it's own.

I now spend a lot less time in my (basement) studio, I can work out side on a nice day (in the shade), christ techincally I could work by the pool - not tried it yet, a little nervous about potential water damage.

Also since I bought the 17 inch laptop my work has got better and my social status has grown considerably*.

* May not be strictly true.

[mosch]

Originally posted by + spiral +:
Mosch, not being familiar with this stuff, what is it in Reason that taxes the processor so much? Is it how Logic is optimized that is a problem as well? What were you running?

Logic doesn't really seem to be a problem, if you're doing relatively simple things like basic multi-track recording.

Reason on the other hand eats up CPU because it actually simulates all the instruments (it's not just playing samples), so if you have a moderately complex rack setup, you can eat a hell of a lot of CPU.

[Danny]

Thank you for all your replies so far. To help me further I would need some numbers.

Does anyone have any numbers showing the differance in performance in Reason and Logic/Cubase on the 12" and 17" powerbooks?

I want to find out if the 12" will be enough for my needs, because I like the smaller price tag and better portability.
The good things about the 17" would be screensize and performance.

Thank You

Danny

[jckalen]

Danny,

HAVE you considered the 15"? It might make for a good compromise and if you have the $$$ for a 17", you could get a 15" and either beef it up or have money left over for more apps.

Regarding the flames directed towards those of us who got 17":

Saying that all macnners will recommend the most expensive thing is just silly. It's not like we're on commission. I can only speak for myself but I did not buy a 17" to make anyone envious or to enhance my genetalia. I got it mostly because I always tend to get the beefiest computer I can afford. Remember, new applications tend to need more and more memory. You will eventually outgrow ANY computer. You may have to spend a little more now, but if it lasts you a couple of years longer than a less expensive model, the cost is often justified.

[Danny]

Yes I have considered the 15". It's on my list. Since the performance of the 15" and the 17" is pretty much the same I dont see any reason to differentiate the two.

Any one using the 12" with Reason? Can you give me an example of how much stuff you can run without getting any problems with the audio?
What about Reason 2.5? I hear the new effects are heavy on the cpu?
Share your experience.

Danny

[YeahIgotone]

I was in the same boat that you are currently in about a month ago. I had been a PC user for my entire life...until i went to college. The only thing i used at college was dual processor G4's. I knew that i needed to make the switch. I had been studying the powerbook since the 667's were released and had my mind and money set on getting the 1 gig 15 with a superdrive. In january i saw that they were going to release the 17". I struggled for a long time not only the money difference but also over the size difference. Well i got the 17" and am currently running a motu 896 and digital performer. I know this was the best decision i could have made and the computer is amazing. I noticed a big rendering difference between the 15" 1 gig and 17" 1 gig. that made the difference for me. Hope this helped you out.