[Beer Penguin]

Hey. I was wondering 1)if the Japanese version of the powerbook had both hiragana and roman characters, and 2)if anyone perhaps wanted to trade their japanese keyboard for mine or just sell me theirs.

Thanks.

[straymute]

The Japanese version does indeed have hiragana as well. You can see part of the keyboard at:

http://www.kodawarisan.com/ug/PowerBook/index.html

I have also been hoping to get one. Does anyone know if these can be ordered directly from Apple? I believe that the keyboard is considered a user-installable part, so it shouldn't be a big deal..

[Beer Penguin]

Cool. I'm gonna try calling Apple tomorrow. I'll let you know what I find out.

[icruise]

I don't think you'll have much luck getting one from Apple US. But you really don't need one -- many Japanese actually prefer the US keyboard because it has a simpler layout and a much bigger space bar. Very few people actually use the hiragana/katakana on the keys, instead using romaji to enter Japanese. I use Japanese every day on the English keyboard with no problems.

[straymute]

There are really two things that interest me with the native layout. First, is that it has many more keys than a US keyboard; these would be quite useful for remapping in the US mode. Second, Japanese input would require less keystrokes in hiragana than in romaji.

(Another option is to remap the US keyboard so that it is romaji-friendly; twice the keystrokes, but much less than half the distance traveled. Come to think of it, this might be better--especially on a Fingerworks keyboard. They are also planning a replacement keyboard for PowerBooks, see http://www.fingerworks.com)

Sorry about the tangent--as one afflicted with tendinitis, I give these things a bit more thought.

[icruise]

I suppose so, but you have to learn a completely new keyboard layout (not only the hiragana/katakana, but also the different locations of the punctuation keys) which would make entering text pretty slow going for most people.

[superblue]

After switching to a Japanese keyboard on my iBook (via Icruise!) it didn't take me too long to get used to the new layout. Some of the keys are handier (a more convenient @ for one, plus of course keys for switiching from romaji to hiragana/katakana).

The biggest downer however is the lack of a command key to the right of the space bar which prevents me from single handedly command + right cursor-ing back in web pages. That and the control and caps lock key are swapped.

Still, I've kept the keyboard in and have no intention of switching back. I don't know if the PB layout is exactly the same, might be worth checking out. Is there anyway you can try one out for a week or so first, bit of a testdrive?

[icruise]

Originally posted by superblue:
After switching to a Japanese keyboard on my iBook (via Icruise!) it didn't take me too long to get used to the new layout. Some of the keys are handier (a more convenient @ for one, plus of course keys for switiching from romaji to hiragana/katakana).

Heh, yes I've actually sold a fair number of Japanese ibook keyboards to people in the US and a few to people in Japan, so I'm not saying that they are terrible or anything. But I've also found that some people who asked me about them didn't really understand what they were for -- they seemed to be under the impression that you couldn't use Japanese without them. If you want to get a Japanese keyboard, you should realize what you are getting into and have a decent reason for doing it. Otherwise, it may not be worth the other tradeoffs involved.

[Beer Penguin]

I just really want to be able to enter the hiragana/katakana, instead of relying on romaji. I suppose I could just get an external USB keyboard, but I'm worried about compatibility and functionality on my PB.

[superblue]

Originally posted by Beer Penguin:
I just really want to be able to enter the hiragana/katakana, instead of relying on romaji. I suppose I could just get an external USB keyboard, but I'm worried about compatibility and functionality on my PB.

Why not simply use an external Apple Pro keyboard? There won't be any incompatibilities there. I've been using one on my UK G4 for months - it's perfect (and you get command keys either side of the space bar, unlike the iBook keyboard! )

[Beer Penguin]

Originally posted by Icruise:
Heh, yes I've actually sold a fair number of Japanese ibook keyboards to people in the US and a few to people in Japan, so I'm not saying that they are terrible or anything. But I've also found that some people who asked me about them didn't really understand what they were for -- they seemed to be under the impression that you couldn't use Japanese without them. If you want to get a Japanese keyboard, you should realize what you are getting into and have a decent reason for doing it. Otherwise, it may not be worth the other tradeoffs involved.

Whoa, somehow I totally missed the fact that you're selling the keyboards. Apple said no, so is there any way you can quote me a price on both the powerbook keyboard and the external USB Pro Keyboard?

[icruise]

I didn't mention it because I don't really have access to PBG4 keyboards -- only iBook keyboards. I could get a Japanese USB keyboard, although shipping would be a tad expensive.

[pbjudge]

I would caution people to pay attention to Icruise's warnings about switing to the Japanese keyboard. He is right - they are not for everyone.

I use Japanese keyboards at work and a std US keyboard at home, and I much prefer the std keyboard - specially the command key and the larger space bar. I type in Japanese and still prefer the US keyboard.

So unless you have a special need for the hiragana/katagana on the keys, I recommend staying with the US keyboard.

Something to think about anyway...

- P

[Beer Penguin]

Whoa, I just found this koeteri thing, I'd been using the character palette. So, nevermind. Thanks though.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by pbjudge:
I would caution people to pay attention to Icruise's warnings about switing to the Japanese keyboard. He is right - they are not for everyone.

I use Japanese keyboards at work and a std US keyboard at home, and I much prefer the std keyboard - specially the command key and the larger space bar. I type in Japanese and still prefer the US keyboard.

So unless you have a special need for the hiragana/katagana on the keys, I recommend staying with the US keyboard.

Something to think about anyway...

- P

True.

After considerable deliberation, I calculated that it would actually save typing and relearning time to choose a standard US keyboard layout. The only possible exception is if most of your typing will be in Japanese and you will not be using a standard US keyboard layout again.

The JIS keyboard layout is reputedly considerably less efficient especially for entering computer programs, because of awkward placement of keys for several often-used symbols (according to The Infamous JIS Keyboard, "parentheses, quotation marks, &, +, =, *, etc.").

Otherwise, between the combined lost time for awkward typing of these symbols, as well as relearning time for continually adjusting between two different keyboard formats, you may actually lose time, even after mastering the new layout.

Some Japanese users in Japan intensely dislike the JIS format and actually go through great pains just to obtain the standard US keyboard layout, which is nonstandard in Japan (and therefore hard to get there).

If you don't believe me, just ask somebody who can read Japanese to visit the Apple Japan Support Discussions Web site (you will need to log on using the same user id and password as for your Apple USA Support Discussions Web site):

Check out the following links:

* The Infamous JIS Keyboard

* Tech Info Library (for iBook (Dual USB) JIS keyboard)

* Technical Note TN1152: JIS Keyboard Support in MacOS

DekuDekuplex