Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

x user · Jun 20, 2003, 10:08 PM

Hmm, if a 15.4" PB is announced at the same time as the G5 Powermacs, (assume we believe there is a G5) they almost certainly will contain a G5 as well. If the 15.4" has a G5 the 17" Will have to have one, and chances are the 12" would get it too.

If the 12" gets one, say with the following specs

1.2ghz G5
600mhz Bus
DDR SDRAM
FW400, 800?
USB, 2?
ATi or Nvidia with 128mb SDRAM

$1799, who would buy one?

I know I would be seriously tempted...

parsec_kadets · Jun 20, 2003, 10:23 PM

I think it's a huge leap to say that because Apple updates the 15" it will have a G5. Just because a next gen. chip exists doesn't mean that you can use it in a laptop yet.

redJag · Jun 20, 2003, 11:49 PM

They undoubtedly could use the new chip in the 15.4" PBs, but WHY would they do that? Then they'd have to have the new chips in all the PBs, and there's still stock of G4 12"/17" PBs. I don't think Apple would mind that their powerful desktops be more powerful than their laptops for awhile as they let G4 PB stock diminish. There is always that "Year of the PowerBook" thing though..

icruise · Jun 21, 2003, 12:18 AM

I haven't really been following the discussion about this, but the common wisdom has always been that Apple would introduce the G5 in the desktops first (partially because they need a sales boost, and partially because heat and size issues might make it harder to fit the new processor into a laptop). I believe that this was the case with the G3 and G4. And I must admit that I don't want my 12" powerbook to be suddenly obsolete...

haunebu · Jun 21, 2003, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by Icruise:
I believe that this was the case with the G3 and G4. And I must admit that I don't want my 12" powerbook to be suddenly obsolete...

The G3 did get released in both the Power Mac and PowerBook simultaneously (Novermber '97). And your 12" isn't any more obsolete now than last week...

icruise · Jun 21, 2003, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by haunebu:
The G3 did get released in both the Power Mac and PowerBook simultaneously (Novermber '97). And your 12" isn't any more obsolete now than last week...

Yes, I guess you're right about the G3, but the G4 took quite a while to make it to the portables. My guess would be that a G5 would be similar, but of course I'm just guessing.

As for it not making machines obsolete, it's true that my machine wouldn't be any slower or less capable after a theoretical introduction of a powerbook g5, but the resale value and perceived value will go way down. So if not obsolete, it will certainly make my computer seem less desirable/capable (much moreso than the normal speed-bumps we all expect after a while).

x user · Jun 21, 2003, 11:58 AM

Well from what I see, everything points to Apple dumping the G4 as fast as they can. The G5 AKA 970 has a low power usage and low temperatures. And if Apple intros 1.6ghz G5's they'll have alot of trouble selling 1ghz G4's. I can't see the professional line not getting a G5 across the board. I think the Alumnium was designed from the beginning for the G5, but the chip wasn't ready in time for the show.

I believe the PB's will get a G5 monday, if the powermac does, but where the iBook/iMac stands is questionable. It's possible that IBM could come up with a update G3 with AltiVec (Isn't one in development?) for those units...

In the end I believe Apple+Mot is dead. and Apple knows it.

icruise · Jun 21, 2003, 12:11 PM

Well we shall see....

nonhuman · Jun 21, 2003, 08:53 PM

If I'm not mistaken, the reason there was a delay in getting G4s into portables was because, as any user of any generation of G4 PowerBooks (but particularly first-gen ones) can tell you, G4s run extremely hot. My pismo gets hot, but not uncomfortably so. If, as we've heard, the G5 really does have lower power consumption and running temperature than the G4 (which I don't find particularly hard to believe), then I have no doubt that G5 PowerBooks will come out either simultaneously with, or soon after, G5 towers.

ae86_16v · Jun 21, 2003, 11:50 PM

I'll have my $3000 ready.

x user · Jun 22, 2003, 01:19 AM

Same priceing, I'd be really tempted to go for a 12" model. I currantly have an iBook 800, and if the gains were significant...

The Placid Casual · Jun 22, 2003, 06:12 AM

Another speculation thread...

I really feel that anyone expecting a 970 in a Powerbook this soon, will be sorely dissappointed. Look towards 1.4ghz G4s.

haunebu · Jun 22, 2003, 12:00 PM

At MacWorld SF last January, Jobs said that this would be the "Year of the laptop" and that they were shooting for >35% of total sales being laptops. If the Power Macs get G5s they'll sell like hotcakes. If the PowerBooks stick with G4s, laptop sales will stall.

We'll definitely see a 970 PowerBook this year, and sooner rather than later. I'm on the fence about whether ot not it will appear Monday, but considering the 15" is long overdue for an update, it's certainly possible.

There's no way the 15" will be updated with a G4 - that'd make the next PowerBook revision come toward the end of the year, possibly even next January. And if it's truly gonna be "Year of the laptop" then there's no way in hell Apple can afford to wait that long.

If there's any update to the 15" PB tomorrow, it'll be with a 970 - and I expect the rest of the line to get a G5 either at the same time, or shortly after.

But we'll see, only 24 hours to go!

macxtal · Jun 22, 2003, 09:20 PM

Everything I have read indicates that there is no issue with putting the PPC970 into a notebook form factor immediately. The heat and power consumption figures are on par, if not less than, the Motorola G4. If the desktops are getting a 970, then I would be very suprised if the PB15" wasn't updated as well.

In the short term, I can't see this murdering sales of the 12 and 17. It would suprise me if the 17 wasn't updated, but really, if you're in the market for a machine like the PB17, then the PB15's screen would likely be a disapointment. The PB12's selling point is it's form factor again, not it's processor speed. All three could be updated, but from what I can tell, there are only sales shortages of the PB15. The PB15 was Apple's original flagship notebook, and the PB17 is well out on the fringe of acceptable IMHO. It's not a notebook so much as it is a slim desktop replacement that's mobile.

The reaction of the PB12/PB17 owners will be interesting, though, if the PB15 appears in Al format running a 970. The 970 is what OSX has been waiting for.

Sosa · Jun 22, 2003, 09:54 PM

Slightly off topic question here but, will the online Apple Store be updated after midnight? Or if now when will it be updated to reflect the new software / hardware? After Jobs finishes his keynote or sometime later?

acadian · Jun 23, 2003, 12:21 AM

They do it after the keynote...

PowerMatt · Jun 23, 2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by macxtal:
The 970 is what OSX has been waiting for.

But is it snappy? I guess we will find out in about 45 minutes.

icruise · Jun 23, 2003, 03:04 PM

Looks like the G5 portables will have to wait a while, eh?

spaced · Jun 23, 2003, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
Looks like the G5 portables will have to wait a while, eh?

If that thing needs 9 fans it looks like we'll be waiting a LOOOOONG time.

x user · Jun 23, 2003, 05:54 PM

I'm pretty durn sure it doesn't need all those fans.

They are provisions for future 3ghz+ chips

.

The Placid Casual · Jun 23, 2003, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by x user:
I'm pretty durn sure it doesn't need all those fans.

They are provisions for future 3ghz+ chips .

If it didn't need the fans, why were they included? I can't see Apple wasting stacks of money on designing and implementing parts it doesn't need...

Thermal zomes, 9 fans, temperature controls, a total mesh front and back cover to the machine... I really would guess that the 970 is not going into a book anytime soon!

I really think we are looking at a very long haul before the 970 makes an appearance in a PowerBook... It may even take a 980 to do it...

vsurfer · Jun 23, 2003, 09:51 PM

In the short term, I can't see this murdering sales of the 12 and 17. . . The PB12's selling point is it's form factor again, not it's processor speed. . . . The PB15 was Apple's original flagship notebook, and the PB17 is well out on the fringe of acceptable IMHO. It's not a notebook so much as it is a slim desktop replacement that's mobile.

Sounds reasonable. These are 3 critters that serve different purposes and niches.

I find the 15" a weight to lug around. I had hoped I'd use it commmuting more, but find I don't drag it in unless I need to.

I wouldn't even contemplate schlepping around the 17"

From that standpoint it makes sense the 12" is more a form factor choice -- better portability.

But getting back to the point, I think the 15 is the flagship because it is still relatively 'portable', and powerful enough to be a pro desktop replacement. No coincidence if it ends up being the first to get the 970 -- whenever that happens, but my guess on teh timing of this (assuming a working model is in development) is on an approximate convergence of several things

* when inventory of 15" PB's = scarcity
* when inventory of 12 and 17" PBs starting to thin
* when Powermac G5's have had a good run and peak sales have passed, and are approaching their next speed bumps - a bump that will keep them sufficiently ahead of any PB G5
* holiday shopping time

arkhem · Jun 23, 2003, 10:32 PM

Hah YES! no 15.4" with 970 at WWDC. My 17" is not obsolete within months!!

G5 will probably take a while to come to portable because of two problems, power and heat. Power is no biggie, but look at the heat solution within the Powermac G5 and think of that inside a notebook! Dont even complain about your TiBook being too hot!!!

UNTeMac · Jun 24, 2003, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by arkhem:
Power is no biggie, but look at the heat solution within the Powermac G5 and think of that inside a notebook! Dont even complain about your TiBook being too hot!!!

Maybe Apple will tout the new G5 powerbook as "The World's Fastest Personal Skillet"