[djjava]

My girlfriend got a new Dell (inspirion 5100), and because of my computer savvyness I got the priviledge of setting it up, trasnfering files etc. And boy, I tell you, with eveyr keystroke of this thing I thank god I own my PB17. This Dell was dropping the wireless internet signal as fast as I could hit the connect button. and multitasking? forget it!


and to top it off, it ain't that pretty either....

so far, the wireless has been working for about 5 minutes without a drop, but this was only after I connected it directly to the airport extreme base station to finish the file transfers.... I gotta get back on my PB17 before I explode....

[djjava]

ahhh, much better....

[Lateralus]

I feel you, I have spent more than my fair share of time working on Dell machines.

A lot of people think that Apple users only insult and tear down Dell for the same reasons the Winlots tear down the Mac. To be honest, the only people that feel that way are the ones who have used nothing but Dell products and dont know that they are using crap. And just to drive the point home that Dell bashing isnt from our pro-Mac bias: Every knowledgeable PC person hates Dell too.

Yepp.

(Oh, and their commercials SUCK!)

[djjava]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
I feel you, I have spent more than my fair share of time working on Dell machines.

A lot of people think that Apple users only insult and tear down Dell for the same reasons the Winlots tear down the Mac. To be honest, the only people that feel that way are the ones who have used nothing but Dell products and dont know that they are using crap. And just to drive the point home that Dell bashing isnt from our pro-Mac bias: Every knowledgeable PC person hates Dell too.

Yepp.

(Oh, and their commercials SUCK!)

I can consider myself a fair judge of this, having been a ex-PC user for a few months now.. (still stuck using it at work). I just got so relieved when I opened the lid of my PB17, lovely Aqua graphics, my lovely dock, and the speed, oh the speed, it just runs so well... with the 1ghz G4, I can out perform her 2.4ghz P4...

death to dell!!! Love my Apple.

[acadian]

I feel you,

My...aren't we close? i dont feel anything....

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by acadian:
My...aren't we close? i dont feel anything....

My... arent we a smartass.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
And just to drive the point home that Dell bashing isnt from our pro-Mac bias: Every knowledgeable PC person hates Dell too.

If you want people to buy into your argument, avoid making absolute statements, especially statements that are not true.

I've worked for years as a network administrator (although I've moved on to sofware development). Dell makes excellent servers and PCs. You are probably buying Dimension computers and Inspiron laptops. Those are designed to be inexpensive, and you get what you pay for. Next time buy a Precision, an Optiplex, or a Lattitude. They perform very well, and rarely have problems. From a network administration standpoint, they are fantastic because the platforms are slow to change (unlike the consumer models), so you can buy machines over several years, but still have the same hardware, so no need to support multiple drivers.

Dell's support is untouched. Again, your experience is most likely with consumer support. Business support is fantastic. Email them that a desktop is down, and a tech is onsite the next day with replacement parts. Email them that a server is down (or call if it's your email server), and a tech is onsite with replacement parts within 4 hours.

Apple can't do that. Until Apple can do that, businesses will choose Dell or Compaq or IBM.

So, in summary, I am a knoweldgeable PC user, and I love Dell. I also love my PowerBook. You'll win more converts by spreading the truth than you will by making blanket statements that most people will recognize as not only a blanket statement, but also untrue.

[juanpacolopez]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
If you want people to buy into your argument, avoid making absolute statements, especially statements that are not true.

I second the notion that the corporate level service/product from Dell is excellent, at least compared to other PC manufacturers. The consumer machines are, for the most part, crap... a nice Optiplex or Latitude on the other hand IS a nice stable/sturdy machine.

Having said that, it still has all the shortcomings of a typical PC from a network admin standpoint... unfortunately that's not really Dell's fault, it's Microsoft's.

I administer plenty of Dell machines at work, and yes coming home to my powerbook IS refreshing... but I disagree with the original poster that us "knowledgable PC people" think all Dells suck... they don't (compared to what's out there... it's all relative and lightyears behind OSX anyways).

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
If you want people to buy into your argument, avoid making absolute statements, especially statements that are not true.

Wait a minute. You agree that Dells Inspirion and Dimension lines are crap, yet you are calling me a liar?

I dont really care about the quality level of Dells corporate level machines. I, nor most, do not purchase those machines.

But if it makes you feel better, I will agree that I am a partial-fan of Dells servers and high-end laptops.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Wait a minute. You agree that Dells Inspirion and Dimension lines are crap, yet you are calling me a liar?

I am saying that your statement about knowledgable PC users all hating Dell is untrue.

I dont really care about the quality level of Dells corporate level machines. I, nor most, do not purchase those machines.

Since we are in a PowerBook forum, we should compare to the competitors' comparable product. If we were in the iBook forum, I could understand. (Yes, I realize that the original poster referred to an Inspiron).

[DekuDekuplex]

Excuse me, but as a network administrator with years of support experience, specifically with Dell Optiplexes and Latitudes, I CAN'T recommend Dell.

In fact, I've probably had more nightmares with Dells than I've had with any other brand of PC I've worked with (and I've also worked with HP's, Gateways, and even generic nameless brands, including what was my own generic home-built Windows 2000 Professional-based PC at home before I became a Switcher).

Between 1999 and 2001, I was network administrator for an NT 4.0 Workstation-based LAN in a major language center with of dozens of users, and our center had constant problems with Dells.

Most of them were Optiplex-based desktops (a type that you recommended for purchases), but some were Latitude laptops (another type that you also recommended); however, they both had multiple problems.

Specifically, we had the following headaches, among others:

1) On numerous occasions, the hard drives on the Dells simply crashed without warning, in some cases after only about a year of use on an Optiplex. All data on board was lost, and because DriveSavers (a data recovery firm) would have charged a lot of money to recover the data, our company couldn't afford to have it recovered. Dell didn't offer to pay for having the data recovered. One of the salespeople who lost the data eventually had to quit after a few months because he had lost too many of his business contacts in Outlook 98.

2) On more than one occasion on Optiplexes running Windows 2000 Professional, a conflict with Terminal Server running on Windows 2000 Server corrupted the local printer driver, making it impossible to print locally from Terminal Server. Reinstalling the local printer driver didn't help, and the entire local OS had to be reinstalled and all applications and data reinstalled/restored, taking hours.

3) On several occasions in the technology room for running multimedia applications for international students studying English, Windows 98-based Optiplexes refused to run English Discoveries (a proprietary multimedia-based English tutorial program) reliably. Specifically, they would often freeze suddenly while playing an audio or video file, and would not even reboot unless the power button were held down for several seconds (forcing a power off). Of course, all data during the English Discoveries session would then be lost, severely irritating the student, and resulting in a direct loss of reputation to the company, courtesy of Dell.

The administrator for the technology room specifically told me that, according to his experience, Dells were worse than both Sony and HP desktops for running multimedia-based applications. Unfortunately, he didn't have any experience in running Mac's, so he was unable to comment on their performace.

4) On one occasion, I tried to transfer data from a Handspring Visor Deluxe PDA to a Sony Clie SJ-30 PDA via a Dell Optiplex, and even though I had administrator privileges on the Windows 2000 Professional-based PC, it wouldn't transfer.

When I asked an employee at Nobody Beats the Wiz about this issue, he told me not to use Dells for this kind of transfer, because Dells used their own proprietary drivers instead of the Microsoft-supplied ones for many tasks. He said that the incompatibilities with the Dell-supplied drivers had resulted in many complaints from frustrated customers who had tried to transfer data from their digicams to their Dell PC's.

He advised me to use any other brand of PC except for a Dell.

Frustrated, I went back home to my generic home-built PC (this was before I became a Switcher), also running Windows 2000 Professional, and the data transferred flawlessly.

5) A few months ago, a coworker experienced problems with the trackpad and keyboard on his Dell Latitude laptop. Some of the keys didn't work, and the trackpad did not allow him to move his cursor accurately.

6) Also a few months ago, a different coworker experienced many different problems with his Dell Latitude laptop running Windows 2000 Professional.

At first, he couldn't get Terminal Server to print from the local HP inkjet printer, despite reinstalling the local printer driver.

I performed a reinstall of the OS and managed to solve this problem, but later he complained about his PC running too slowly, even with 128 MB of RAM installed.

When I visited the Microsoft Windows Update Web site to install the critical updates and update his WiFi driver, Windows displayed new inexplicable error messages upon rebooting that hadn't appeared before.

Worse, the updated WiFi driver refused to connect to the wireless network, and his laptop had to be sent all the way back to headquarters to be reconfigured. During this period, he had to work without a laptop, which was a severe inconvenience.

All I had done was to install Microsoft's recommended Windows updates on the Dell Latitude laptop running Windows 2000 Professional, and utter havoc resulted.

--

After experiencing years of headaches as a network administrator for a Dell Optiplex and Latitude Windows-based LAN, when it came time to buy my own laptop, I Switched and bought a 17-inch Macintosh PowerBook.

Incidentally, I haven't had any of these incompatibility-related problems with my new PowerBook. Playing multimedia applets in the browser on it is a breeze.

Even setting up Verizon Residential DSL on my new Airport Extreme Base Station was straightforward. Nothing went wrong during the installation.

Pardon the quote, but really, everything "just works." Seriously. By the way, I don't work for Apple (at least not yet, but I may in the future ).

DekuDekuplex

Originally posted by wallinbl:
If you want people to buy into your argument, avoid making absolute statements, especially statements that are not true.

I've worked for years as a network administrator (although I've moved on to sofware development). Dell makes excellent servers and PCs. You are probably buying Dimension computers and Inspiron laptops. Those are designed to be inexpensive, and you get what you pay for. Next time buy a Precision, an Optiplex, or a Lattitude. They perform very well, and rarely have problems. From a network administration standpoint, they are fantastic because the platforms are slow to change (unlike the consumer models), so you can buy machines over several years, but still have the same hardware, so no need to support multiple drivers.

Dell's support is untouched. Again, your experience is most likely with consumer support. Business support is fantastic. Email them that a desktop is down, and a tech is onsite the next day with replacement parts. Email them that a server is down (or call if it's your email server), and a tech is onsite with replacement parts within 4 hours.

Apple can't do that. Until Apple can do that, businesses will choose Dell or Compaq or IBM.

So, in summary, I am a knoweldgeable PC user, and I love Dell. I also love my PowerBook. You'll win more converts by spreading the truth than you will by making blanket statements that most people will recognize as not only a blanket statement, but also untrue.

[wallinbl]

1) On numerous occasions, the hard drives on the Dells simply crashed without warning, in some cases after only about a year of use on an Optiplex. All data on board was lost, and because DriveSavers (a data recovery firm) would have charged a lot of money to recover the data, our company couldn't afford to have it recovered. Dell didn't offer to pay for having the data recovered. One of the salespeople who lost the data eventually had to quit after a few months because he had lost too many of his business contacts in Outlook 98.

First, hard drives are hard drives. They crash in a Mac, they crash in a PC. Dell has no obligation to recover your data. Note that Apple will not pay for this either. With your Dell, you can have the machine up and running the next day. With Apple, you can't. Nothing should be stored on a local PC. Contacts should be stored on the mail server. Bad design, and you pay the consequences.

2) On more than one occasion on Optiplexes running Windows 2000 Professional, a conflict with Terminal Server running on Windows 2000 Server corrupted the local printer driver, making it impossible to print locally from Terminal Server. Reinstalling the local printer driver didn't help, and the entire local OS had to be reinstalled and all applications and data reinstalled/restored, taking hours.

This has nothing to do with Dell, it has to do with Windows. This is also poor network administration. Terminal Server does not make changes to the local printer. It can send print jobs to it, but it cannot make changes. You should always have the printer drivers preloaded on the Terminal Server (and disable the automatic detection and installation of drivers). I have used Terminal Services in environments with over 1000 client computer (Windows 2000, Windows 9x, Windows XP, Mac, Linux). I have not had any problems with local printers becoming unusable. I will state here that I had to write a custom script to configure printers at login in order to make local printing work consistently. This was on the server side and has nothing to do with the client. Again, this is a Windows issue, not Dell.

3) On several occasions in the technology room for running multimedia applications for international students studying English, Windows 98-based Optiplexes refused to run English Discoveries (a proprietary multimedia-based English tutorial program) reliably. Specifically, they would often freeze suddenly while playing an audio or video file, and would not even reboot unless the power button were held down for several seconds (forcing a power off). Of course, all data during the English Discoveries session would then be lost, severely irritating the student, and resulting in a direct loss of reputation to the company, courtesy of Dell.

Once again, you are referring to a software problem. As well, if you want a reliable computer, you should not use Windows 98.

The administrator for the technology room specifically told me that, according to his experience, Dells were worse than both Sony and HP desktops for running multimedia-based applications. Unfortunately, he didn't have any experience in running Mac's, so he was unable to comment on their performace.

There's not much to say here - you're using Windows 98. That's a bad decision. After that decision, all bets are off.

4) On one occasion, I tried to transfer data from a Handspring Visor Deluxe PDA to a Sony Clie SJ-30 PDA via a Dell Optiplex, and even though I had administrator privileges on the Windows 2000 Professional-based PC, it wouldn't transfer.

This has nothing to do with Dell.

When I asked an employee at Nobody Beats the Wiz about this issue, he told me not to use Dells for this kind of transfer, because Dells used their own proprietary drivers instead of the Microsoft-supplied ones for many tasks. He said that the incompatibilities with the Dell-supplied drivers had resulted in many complaints from frustrated customers who had tried to transfer data from their digicams to their Dell PC's.

I once heard a guy say that the Supreme Court justices flipped coins to come to their decisions. That doesn't make it true. Dell provides drivers from the original hardware manufacturer. Microsoft doesn't supply drivers for many things. It is generally the manufacturer writing the driver and having it signed by Microsoft after passing WHQL. All Dell drivers I have installed have passed WHQL.

He advised me to use any other brand of PC except for a Dell.

He's a $10/hour PC tech. Who cares what he thinks?

Frustrated, I went back home to my generic home-built PC (this was before I became a Switcher), also running Windows 2000 Professional, and the data transferred flawlessly.

Coincidence at best. My guess is that there was something in the BIOS that disabled the serial port you were using or something along those lines.

5) A few months ago, a coworker experienced problems with the trackpad and keyboard on his Dell Latitude laptop. Some of the keys didn't work, and the trackpad did not allow him to move his cursor accurately.

Read the forums here, things happen with PowerBooks, too. What's your point? Why have a warranty or tech support if your products are flawless?

6) Also a few months ago, a different coworker experienced many different problems with his Dell Latitude laptop running Windows 2000 Professional.

Again, this is Windows, not Dell

At first, he couldn't get Terminal Server to print from the local HP inkjet printer, despite reinstalling the local printer driver.

Terminal Services printing is tricky to master. HP has a tendency to write print utilities instead of print drivers. These utilities are very problematic for network printing. These utilities come with consumer printers, you should not be using them on a network like this.

I currently have this problem with my HP Photosmart 7350 and my PowerBook. The printer was given to me, I never would have purchased it. I hooked it up to my AirPort Base Station, but the HP driver will not allow it to work over the network. I don't blame Apple for this, I blame HP. You should blame HP as well.

I performed a reinstall of the OS and managed to solve this problem, but later he complained about his PC running too slowly, even with 128 MB of RAM installed.

I've tried to be friendly up to this point, but now I have to say that I am glad you are not my network administrator. Why did you reinstall the OS? That's a sign that you have no idea what the problem was, likely because you don't know what you are doing. Windows is not that complicated. There are files critical to printing, and some registry settings critical to printing. Printing can always be fixed without an OS reinstall.

When I visited the Microsoft Windows Update Web site to install the critical updates and update his WiFi driver, Windows displayed new inexplicable error messages upon rebooting that hadn't appeared before.

This is not Dell's fault. Install drivers from the manufacturer, not from Microsoft. This is probably foreign to Mac users, but it is the best method. Microsoft generally distributes older drivers with less features than what the manufacturer is shipping.

Worse, the updated WiFi driver refused to connect to the wireless network, and his laptop had to be sent all the way back to headquarters to be reconfigured. During this period, he had to work without a laptop, which was a severe inconvenience.

As the network admin, you should be able to fix simple driver issues without shipping a PC off.

All I had done was to install Microsoft's recommended Windows updates on the Dell Latitude laptop running Windows 2000 Professional, and utter havoc resulted.

Again, nothing to do with Dell.

After experiencing years of headaches as a network administrator for a Dell Optiplex and Latitude Windows-based LAN, when it came time to buy my own laptop, I Switched and bought a 17-inch Macintosh PowerBook.

Again, most of what you have stated has little to do with Dell. It mostly applies to Windows.

Incidentally, I haven't had any of these incompatibility-related problems with my new PowerBook. Playing multimedia applets in the browser on it is a breeze.

OS X is a much better product than Windows. That's why I have a PowerBook. You've mostly compared Windows to OS X, not Dell to Apple.

Even setting up Verizon Residential DSL on my new Airport Extreme Base Station was straightforward. Nothing went wrong during the installation.

Go for cable. DSL is slower.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
Go for cable. DSL is slower.

I'll have to disagree with you there. It depends on where you live. Some places cable is slower, others DSL is slower. For me, my DSL is much faster than my cable was. In fact, it is testing as a gigabit connection according to the few sites I have tested it with. In additon, my peak downloads are consistantly 50+k per second faster. I also find that DSL is more reliable.

But, like I said, it depends on where you live and how many people are in your area.

[BkueKanoodle]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
First, hard drives are .... You've mostly compared Windows to OS X, not Dell to Apple.

Thank you Wallinbl, for saving me the trouble of replying to this "Network Administrator" Almost Every point he had was related to the OS, and not the hardware. Me thinks he doesn't have the first clue what he's talking about. Especially if he "the network Administrator" has to ask for tech help from the Ask the Whiz guy. You brought up my favorite word of advice for people shopping for computers;

"Don't ever take the advice of someone working in sales at (insert your favorite chain here) If they really knew what they were talking about, do you you think they'd be working as a Sales clerk for $6 (or 10) dollars an hour?"

I once had the opportunity to do some mystery shopping for one of the major computer makers at these chains. You would not believe some of the stuff they tried to tell me. I swear they were making it up as they went along.

Oh, and I'd take Dell's support and service over Apple's any day of the week. (notice I did not say I would take a dell over apple)

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
[stuff deleted]
I've tried to be friendly up to this point, but now I have to say that I am glad you are not my network administrator. Why did you reinstall the OS? That's a sign that you have no idea what the problem was, likely because you don't know what you are doing. Windows is not that complicated. There are files critical to printing, and some registry settings critical to printing. Printing can always be fixed without an OS reinstall.
[additional stuff deleted]

I disagree. Terminal Server had the latest versions of all the relevant HP printer drivers installed directly from the HP Web site, and I had the same versions of the drivers installed locally as well. My senior Terminal Server network administrator had told me that as long as the correct versions of the printer drivers were installed both at the server and the client ends, printing from Terminal Server should work fine.

Well, it didn't. I was printing locally routinely from LCMS (Language Center Management System, a proprietary database written in PowerBuilder) on Terminal Server, and suddenly the printer stopped printing between print jobs.

I logged off LCMS, logged off Terminal Server on Windows 2000 Server, then did a cold reboot of Windows 2000 Professional locally, then logged back on to LCMS on Terminal Server, but LCMS still didn't print.

LCMS on Terminal Server could still print successfully on other clients using the same printer and printer driver, but just not on my client, so I decided that the problem must be on my client's end, not the server end.

So, I uninstalled the local printer driver, then reinstalled the same version of the printer driver as on Terminal Server directly from the HP Web site, then cold-rebooted the PC, then logged back into LCMS, but LCMS still didn't print.

The printer printed without any problems when print jobs were sent from locally, both directly with a test page and from within other applications, but it would not print from within any application on Terminal Server.

I figured that the problem probably had something to do with the interface between the client and server printer drivers.

Just to be on the safe side, I called my senior Terminal Server network administrator to confirm that the printer driver versions were the same on both the client and server ends. They were.

Then, I uninstalled LCMS locally, then reinstalled it, but I still couldn't get it to print.

I then called my senior Terminal Server network administrator for any ideas, but he couldn't figure out a solution, either.

Finally, I backed up all my data, reformatted my local hard drive, reinstalled all my applications, and restored all my data, and then, lo and behold, I could print again from LCMS on Terminal Server!

Incidentally, Terminal Server didn't have this kind of compatibility issue with any of our Windows 98 clients. However, it had this problem on at least two Windows 2000 Professional clients.

DekuDekuplex

[mosch]

Dell screws small resellers, such as myself. If you get a quote from me for some Dell machines, and then fax it to dell, they will undercut my price, despite knowing that I'm a reseller.

Beyond that, they'll sell to the end-user cheaper than they'll sell to a reseller, so I don't even have an option to do zero-margin on the dell hardware in order to match their price.

If you like small businesses, stay away from Dell. IBM and Compaq's business line of machines are very respectable, and both are small business friendly, as well.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
[stuff deleted]
Go for cable. DSL is slower.
[additional stuff deleted]

Gee, I've tried to be nice up to now, but I can't believe that you can make such an oversimplification!

It depends on the bandwidth!

If you have an environment in which only a few people are using cable, and you are comparing the bandwidth with a relatively low-bandwidth DSL service, that could be true.

But if you have one in which many users sharing a single cable line, and you are comparing the bandwidth to a relatively high-speed DSL service (there are many grades of DSL), that won't necessarily be true.

DekuDekuplex

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by BkueKanoodle:
Thank you Wallinbl, for saving me the trouble of replying to this "Network Administrator"
[stuff deleted]

All right, since you insist on questioning my occupation, just what is yours?

FYI, my title was "ITD (Information Technology Department) Coordinator," and my responsibility was to function as the local network-related liaison between HQ and the local language center.

In general, why can't we keep this discussion dry and to-the-point?

DekuDekuplex

[DekuDekuplex]

Thank you, mosch, for taking the time to reply to this "Veteran Member" who doesn't know how to reply without making personal remarks.

'Nuff said.

DekuDekuplex

Originally posted by mosch:
Dell screws small resellers, such as myself. If you get a quote from me for some Dell machines, and then fax it to dell, they will undercut my price, despite knowing that I'm a reseller.

Beyond that, they'll sell to the end-user cheaper than they'll sell to a reseller, so I don't even have an option to do zero-margin on the dell hardware in order to match their price.

If you like small businesses, stay away from Dell. IBM and Compaq's business line of machines are very respectable, and both are small business friendly, as well.

[BkueKanoodle]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
All right, since you insist on questioning my occupation, just what is yours?

FYI, my title was "ITD (Information Technology Department) Coordinator," and my responsibility was to function as the local network-related liaison between HQ and the local language center.

In general, why can't we keep this discussion dry and to-the-point?

DekuDekuplex

If you want to compare Resume's. lets throw down:

Current Job Duties

Network Engineering, Security Design, and IT Management Consulting for a consulting company providing All phases of IT Management for one of the largest Chain of Casino's on the West Coast. Hiring and Firing Chumps like you for breakfast.

Past job titles include:

Senior Network Engineer for fortune 500 company

IT Director

Network Administrator

Taught Networking at the University level

Help Desk Manager (400+ Staff)

BS in IT. MBA

Certifications include

RHCE, CCNA, CCNP, MCSE(NT 4 +Internet & Windows 2000) , MCSA, MCDBA, CISSP, CNA, Net+, A+

Currently working on CCIE


And the discussion was on point, your argument was full of flaws and was backed by anectdotal evidence that pointed to a problem with software, not specifically related to Dell hardware.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[BkueKanoodle]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:


FYI, my title was "ITD (Information Technology Department) Coordinator," and my responsibility was to function as the local network-related liaison between HQ and the local language center.


DekuDekuplex

Wait, that description sure sounds like a Help Desk tech position, not a Network Administrator.

Figures.

How come your profile lists your occupation as a English/Japanese Teacher? Which is it teacher, or network Administrator? Sounds to me like your a tech savvy teacher, which is fine, but its a hell of a big difference from a Network Administrator.

Not that it matters, except that you are using your "position" to try and establish credibility on a subject matter, in which case your credentials DO matter

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by wallinbl:
First, hard drives are hard drives. They crash in a Mac, they crash in a PC. Dell has no obligation to recover your data. Note that Apple will not pay for this either. With your Dell, you can have the machine up and running the next day. With Apple, you can't. Nothing should be stored on a local PC. Contacts should be stored on the mail server. Bad design, and you pay the consequences.

Before helping to manage the Dell-based network, I used to help manage a Mac-based one. Not a single hard drive ever crashed when I was working on the Mac-based one. I wonder why.

If this issue is not about Dell vs. Apple, I don't know what is.

This has nothing to do with Dell, it has to do with Windows. This is also poor network administration. Terminal Server does not make changes to the local printer. It can send print jobs to it, but it cannot make changes. You should always have the printer drivers preloaded on the Terminal Server (and disable the automatic detection and installation of drivers). I have used Terminal Services in environments with over 1000 client computer (Windows 2000, Windows 9x, Windows XP, Mac, Linux). I have not had any problems with local printers becoming unusable. I will state here that I had to write a custom script to configure printers at login in order to make local printing work consistently. This was on the server side and has nothing to do with the client. Again, this is a Windows issue, not Dell.

FYI, I didn't set up that network; my superiors did. I simply managed the client end at my site. If that was "poor network administration," then that was their fault, not mine.

If, by your own admission, you had to write a custom script just to configure printers at login in order to make local printing work consistently, then, in my opinion, that counts as a problem (granted, with HP and Windows, in this instance). You simply side-stepped the problem by writing the script. With plug-and-play technology, you should not have had to write such a script in the first place. By your own admission, there really was a problem, because if you hadn't written that custom script, you probably would have had problems with local printers becoming unusable. You shouldn't have to write custom scripts just to avoid this problem. This is just bad design (again, by HP and Microsoft, in this instance).

Of course Terminal Server does not make changes to the local printer! I happen to know that, too! That's why I tested LCMS on another client using the same version of the same printer driver to try to determine the cause of the problem. When it printed on another client, but not on mine, I concluded that the problem probably had something to do with my client, not the server.

FYI, the printer drivers were, in fact, preloaded on the Terminal Server (and the automatic detection and installation of drivers was disabled).

Once again, you are referring to a software problem. As well, if you want a reliable computer, you should not use Windows 98.

There's not much to say here - you're using Windows 98. That's a bad decision. After that decision, all bets are off.

This has nothing to do with Dell.

I once heard a guy say that the Supreme Court justices flipped coins to come to their decisions. That doesn't make it true. Dell provides drivers from the original hardware manufacturer. Microsoft doesn't supply drivers for many things. It is generally the manufacturer writing the driver and having it signed by Microsoft after passing WHQL. All Dell drivers I have installed have passed WHQL.

Some of the multimedia-related problems were in fact related to drivers either supplied by Dell, or supplied by manufacturers chosen by Dell.

For example, the sound cards for the Optiplexes were run by drivers that were either supplied by Dell, or by manufacturers who created the sound cards chosen by Dell. These sound cards did not reliably run sound files in English Discoveries with high fidelity. The decision to choose low-quality sound cards to sell cheap components rests squarely with Dell.

This is in fact a Dell vs. Apple issue.

The same issue exists with the video card drivers.

[stuff deleted]
Read the forums here, things happen with PowerBooks, too. What's your point? Why have a warranty or tech support if your products are flawless?

Again, this is Windows, not Dell

Based on the experience of the tech room administrator, Dell Optiplexes and Latitudes seem to have more sound- and video-card problems when running English Discoveries than some HP's or Sonys (not to mention Macs).

This particular issue is a Dell vs. Apple issue.

Terminal Services printing is tricky to master. HP has a tendency to write print utilities instead of print drivers. These utilities are very problematic for network printing. These utilities come with consumer printers, you should not be using them on a network like this.

What makes you think that I was using the utilities? Whenever possible, I downloaded the drivers, not the utilities.

[stuff deleted]
I've tried to be friendly up to this point, but now I have to say that I am glad you are not my network administrator. Why did you reinstall the OS? That's a sign that you have no idea what the problem was, likely because you don't know what you are doing. Windows is not that complicated. There are files critical to printing, and some registry settings critical to printing. Printing can always be fixed without an OS reinstall.

That seems to be an oversimplification. See my other posting.

This is not Dell's fault. Install drivers from the manufacturer, not from Microsoft. This is probably foreign to Mac users, but it is the best method. Microsoft generally distributes older drivers with less features than what the manufacturer is shipping.

Yes, I happen to know that, too. I did in fact install drivers from HP, not from Microsoft. Most network administrators already know that Microsoft generally distributes older drivers with less features than what the manufacturer is shipping. So do I.

As the network admin, you should be able to fix simple driver issues without shipping a PC off.

I usually do. With the WiFi driver issue, I couldn't because it involved programming the driver with confidential passwords that I wasn't allowed to know.

My supervisor chose to have the Latitude shipped back to HQ rather than have me fix the problem locally by supplying me with the passwords. This was not my decision; it was my supervisor's. I probably could have fixed the problem had my supervisor supplied me with those passwords.

DekuDekuplex

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by BkueKanoodle:
Wait, that description sure sounds like a Help Desk tech position, not a Network Administrator.

Figures.

Part of my work was Help Desk-related, but part of it also involved troubleshooting local printer and router-related problems as well.

It was a combined Help Desk Tech and Network Administrator position.

How come your profile lists your occupation as a English/Japanese Teacher? Which is it teacher, or network Administrator? Sounds to me like your a tech savvy teacher, which is fine, but its a hell of a big difference from a Network Administrator.

Currently, I am an English/Japanese Teacher. My language center lost 75% of its income when the World Trade Center collapsed (in case you forgot about that incident).

As a result, many positions had to be cut. One of them happened to be mine. And just to show that my job change wasn't my fault, nobody replaced me, either, and the director of sales lost her position, too. The position itself evaporated, and the language center was forced to hire me part-time every time it had a local network problem.

I wanted to be loyal to my language center, so I deliberately didn't look for other IT work after that, but tried to find a different position within the same company.

So now I'm a combined English/Japanese Teacher in the same language center.

Not that it matters, except that you are using your "position" to try and establish credibility on a subject matter, in which case your credentials DO matter

If fact I did have the position until the collapse of the WTC.

FYI, I also have a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science from Yale University to boot.

Which school did you go to?

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by BkueKanoodle:
BS in IT. MBA

BS from which school? IT, eh, not Computer Science. Hmm....

Why didn't you go for Computer Science in graduate school, instead of Business? I plan to go for Computer Science, not Business, in graduate school (as soon as the economic aftermath of the WTC Disaster in Manhattan improves and allows me to save up enough money to pay off my credit card from having purchased my 17-inch PowerBook to afford it, that is...).

Certifications aren't everything. FYI, I'm also studying for the Oracle 9i DBA certification, having passed the first exam. I'm also A+-certified, and have passed the MCSE Networking Essentials exam, in addition to having a Computer Science degree from Yale.

I studied Turing machines, automata theory, formal semantics, and the design and analysis of advanced algorithms, among many other topics, at Yale.

I have also taught MS Office to 100 clients at The Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

Before working as ITD Coordinator at my language center, I also previously worked as System Engineer in charge of an AppleTalk-based LAN at a Japanese prep school.

(Admittedly off-topic, incidentally, I also almost double-majored in Japanese Language and Literature [I was only missing the senior essay because I chose to write a Japanese-English, English-Japanese language translator without realizing that I didn't have enough linguistics background back then]. Incidentally also, I happen to write poetry in my spare time.)

What did you study, and where?

More on this later ... I have to go to bed now.

In the meantime, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

DekuDekuplex

[forcelite]

The only Dell I have liked was a thier super slim laptop a freind had. I had a Lattitude when the first dual cd rom ones came out and it was crap. Th ething was a snap together computer. No kiding you could snap the pieces on and of, bad quality overall. Their tech suport is good but I still dont like thier products. For a highend home user (sorry I am not IT bigshots like everyone else in this thread) I recomend Alienware, they always have the best parts and they use quality cases.
Force

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
Gee, I've tried to be nice up to now, but I can't believe that you can make such an oversimplification!

It depends on the bandwidth!

If you have an environment in which only a few people are using cable, and you are comparing the bandwidth with a relatively low-bandwidth DSL service, that could be true.

But if you have one in which many users sharing a single cable line, and you are comparing the bandwidth to a relatively high-speed DSL service (there are many grades of DSL), that won't necessarily be true.

DekuDekuplex

It is a rare situation in which DSL is faster. The technology is poor, and is bandwidth limited (not to mention the pathetic distant limitations). You are sharing bandwidth with both cable and DSL. It just depends on at what point the "sharing" is distributed.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
I disagree.

<snip>

Finally, I backed up all my data, reformatted my local hard drive, reinstalled all my applications, and restored all my data, and then, lo and behold, I could print again from LCMS on Terminal Server!

Incidentally, Terminal Server didn't have this kind of compatibility issue with any of our Windows 98 clients. However, it had this problem on at least two Windows 2000 Professional clients.

DekuDekuplex

I left enough of your post for someone to recognize which one I was replying to. As I stated above, there is never a need to reinstall Windows in order to fix a printing problem. There are a handful of files that pertain to printing, and a handful of registry settings. Take some time to familiarize yourself with them, and you will save a lot of time in the future.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
Before helping to manage the Dell-based network, I used to help manage a Mac-based one. Not a single hard drive ever crashed when I was working on the Mac-based one. I wonder why.

If this issue is not about Dell vs. Apple, I don't know what is.

I see maybe one hard drive a year crash from Dell (over 1000 workstations in use).

FYI, I didn't set up that network; my superiors did. I simply managed the client end at my site. If that was "poor network administration," then that was their fault, not mine.

If, by your own admission, you had to write a custom script just to configure printers at login in order to make local printing work consistently, then, in my opinion, that counts as a problem (granted, with HP and Windows, in this instance). You simply side-stepped the problem by writing the script. With plug-and-play technology, you should not have had to write such a script in the first place. By your own admission, there really was a problem, because if you hadn't written that custom script, you probably would have had problems with local printers becoming unusable. You shouldn't have to write custom scripts just to avoid this problem. This is just bad design (again, by HP and Microsoft, in this instance).

Of course Terminal Server does not make changes to the local printer! I happen to know that, too! That's why I tested LCMS on another client using the same version of the same printer driver to try to determine the cause of the problem. When it printed on another client, but not on mine, I concluded that the problem probably had something to do with my client, not the server.

FYI, the printer drivers were, in fact, preloaded on the Terminal Server (and the automatic detection and installation of drivers was disabled).

I agree that Terminal Server printing sucks, and can be difficult to master. That has nothing to do with Dell. I've not used any similar product from Apple, so I don't have any comparison.

Some of the multimedia-related problems were in fact related to drivers either supplied by Dell, or supplied by manufacturers chosen by Dell.

For example, the sound cards for the Optiplexes were run by drivers that were either supplied by Dell, or by manufacturers who created the sound cards chosen by Dell. These sound cards did not reliably run sound files in English Discoveries with high fidelity. The decision to choose low-quality sound cards to sell cheap components rests squarely with Dell.

This is in fact a Dell vs. Apple issue.

The same issue exists with the video card drivers.

See above - you are using Windows 98. You run that at your own risk. It's meant for your grandmother to browse the Internet, not for your business to have reliable computers.

Based on the experience of the tech room administrator, Dell Optiplexes and Latitudes seem to have more sound- and video-card problems when running English Discoveries than some HP's or Sonys (not to mention Macs).

This particular issue is a Dell vs. Apple issue.

What makes you think that I was using the utilities? Whenever possible, I downloaded the drivers, not the utilities.

HP's recent 'drivers' are almost hybrid. Many of the newer deskjet drivers are overly complicated and do not allow for remote printing. You are using printers that are not specifically supported in this configuration. This doesn't have anything to do with Dell.

As I stated above, I have this same problem with an HP printer and my PowerBook.

That seems to be an oversimplification. See my other posting.

It's not. Learn more about the printing process on Windows and you will see that there is never a need to reinstall the operating system.

Yes, I happen to know that, too. I did in fact install drivers from HP, not from Microsoft. Most network administrators already know that Microsoft generally distributes older drivers with less features than what the manufacturer is shipping. So do I.

Again, these are HP DeskJets. Don't use them in a networked environment. If you do, don't expect full compatibility with printer sharing, network printing, or printing from Terminal Server. They have "special" crap in the drivers and none of those things work consistently.

I usually do. With the WiFi driver issue, I couldn't because it involved programming the driver with confidential passwords that I wasn't allowed to know.

My supervisor chose to have the Latitude shipped back to HQ rather than have me fix the problem locally by supplying me with the passwords. This was not my decision; it was my supervisor's. I probably could have fixed the problem had my supervisor supplied me with those passwords.

DekuDekuplex

So, that has nothing to do with Dell, it has to do with your supervisor.


Look, what I am trying to get at with all of this is that Mac people generally do not see the real issues between Mac and PC. Mac has many benefits, but don't try to invent them, and don't misplace the blame on the PC side.

[spaced]

Well this thread is going way too fast the wrong way down a one way street...

::steers this baby back on track::

Anyhow, I'd like to say that my limited experience with Dell hasn't been that bad. I purchased a Dimension desktop to play games on because come on, the best games eventually come to Mac but that doesn't help those of us who enjoy MMORPGs which have limited customer bases. I still love my PB17 first and foremost and will always be an Apple devotee.

The first thing I did when I took the Dimension out of the box was to format and reinstall Windows XP to get rid of all the preloaded crap that comes these type of computers. I like to have a nice, clean system to work with so if something goes wrong I know exactly what is installed and where. I didn't even have to type in a serial number for Windows or go through product activation. I noticed there was a very small hidden partition on the hard drive that probably contains the information necessary to bypass these things, but still, A+ for simplifying what was probably the most protested new "feature" of Windows XP.

In the 8 months that I've owned the Dell, I have not had a single hardware-related problem with it. And I must be honest, Windows XP Professional is the most solid Windows I've ever used. In that time I have added an additional optical drive, RAM, and a new Radeon graphics card. I attached "rails" (included inside the case) to the optical drive which allowed me to slide it right into the bay. RAM installation was a snap. And putting my new graphics card in was simple because this computer has a big plastic clip that holds all the PCI cards in place instead of screws.

Also, this computer is DEAD SILENT. I was worried at first because I thought the fans might not be working, but when I put my hand behind the computer it was blowing air. The only time I ever hear the Dell is when the room is totally silent and I pick up a faint hard drive access noise. That's it. I really can't get over how quiet this thing is, and for my sensitive ears it's a godsend. I can hardly say that about my PB17 (sizzle, whine, screech).

I had originally ordered a 30GB hard drive but the computer showed up with a 120GB hard drive installed. When I called my sales rep to let them know, I was told to "just keep it."

Tech support is just as good as Apple's which really isn't saying much, except I noticed the hold time seemed to be longer. However, I've only called once and for Windows problem I ended up fixing myself while I was on the phone with support.

I don't know, perhaps I am one of the .01% of Mac users who actually has a PC and really doesn't mind using it. I don't want to start another flame war but your opinion isn't really valid if you've never used a PC or the last one you used was 6 years ago. Both Macs and PCs have evolved a lot over the years. You simply cannot compare that 6 year old Compaq to your brand new PowerBook. Granted, I probably wouldn't necessarily trust it with my livelihood and everyday computing, but give me a break... Dell isn't Satan. They aren't out there selling everyone broken computers and stealing your children in the night. If their computers were as bad as some of you make them out to be, they would not be the world's #1 personal computing manufacturer. That just means they are mass-marketed mediocrity.

Want me to blow your mind? I work for IBM. That's right... I'm a Mac user who works for IBM (on a ThinkPad, mind you) who purchased a Dell for personal entertainment use at home, forgoing the employee discount on a similarly equipped CrapVista. Man my boss would kill me knowing that...

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by spaced:


Want me to blow your mind? I work for IBM.

I can guarentee you that not a single Mac user has a problem with you working for IBM since last weeks WWDC Keynote.

[BkueKanoodle]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
BS from which school? IT, eh, not Computer Science. Hmm....

Why didn't you go for Computer Science in graduate school, instead of Business? I plan to go for Computer Science, not Business, in graduate school (as soon as the economic aftermath of the WTC Disaster in Manhattan improves and allows me to save up enough money to pay off my credit card from having purchased my 17-inch PowerBook to afford it, that is...).

I majored in IT because I didn't want to focus on coding, I personally find it boring. I got my MBA because there's a lot more need for people who understand business just as much as IT. Graduate level Geeks are a dime a dozen. There is a world of difference between coders, and Network Engineers. These are 2 totally separte fields.

I've seen Developers who couldn't figure out how to plug in a network cable.


Certifications aren't everything. FYI, I'm also studying for the Oracle 9i DBA certification, having passed the first exam. I'm also A+-certified, and have passed the MCSE Networking Essentials exam, in addition to having a Computer Science degree from Yale.

I never said certifications are everything, but backed with experience, they do qualify one as an expert in the field. Hence when I call B*llsh*t on one of your posts, it strengthens the validity.

I studied Turing machines, automata theory, formal semantics, and the design and analysis of advanced algorithms, among many other topics, at Yale.

What does studying mathematics have to do with properly administering a Network? Granted it's all based on math, but nothing that would come in handy out in the field. (except maybe for doing some custom subnetting )

I have also taught MS Office to 100 clients at The Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

Whoop dee doo. MS Office. There's some real technical prowess there

Before working as ITD Coordinator at my language center, I also previously worked as System Engineer in charge of an AppleTalk-based LAN at a Japanese prep school.

System engineer for a Japanese Prep School Using apple talk? Not really much work there. Appletalk does not require much configuartion and when it does its pretty easy stuff.

(Admittedly off-topic, incidentally, I also almost double-majored in Japanese Language and Literature [I was only missing the senior essay because I chose to write a Japanese-English, English-Japanese language translator without realizing that I didn't have enough linguistics background back then]. Incidentally also, I happen to write poetry in my spare time.)

What did you study, and where?

Marquette Unversity BS
University of Portland MBA

Not quite the "name stature of Yale" but then, I'm making enough that even in todays economy, I'm not worried about paying off my credit cards either.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
Why didn't you go for Computer Science in graduate school, instead of Business? I plan to go for Computer Science, not Business, in graduate school

Here's a tip - people that understand both networks and business make big money. You're worthless in a business environment if you are really technical, but can't communicate with business users. The big bucks are in business, not in scientific development.

(as soon as the economic aftermath of the WTC Disaster in Manhattan improves and allows me to save up enough money to pay off my credit card from having purchased my 17-inch PowerBook to afford it, that is...).

I studied Turing machines, automata theory, formal semantics, and the design and analysis of advanced algorithms, among many other topics, at Yale.

So, you studied mathematics at Yale, and you find yourself in credit card debt? You didn't learn much.

[spaced]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
I can guarentee you that not a single Mac user has a problem with you working for IBM since last weeks WWDC Keynote.

I only wish I had something to do with that!

[killer_735]

Dude, this is one of the most well-executed flame wars I've ever read.
F*&#ing brilliant.Great argumentation.

On a side note, nobody has any way of knowing if anyone's claims are real or not..remember this is the internet, home of the biggest sh1t-talkers in the world.

[technocrat]

Didn't Compal make both the Powerbooks and Inspirons at one time?

I have had Thinkpads, Compaq's, HP's, Apples and various other laptops. I currently manage a large fleet of Latitudes and yes there are problems. Primarily mildly retarded users and some hardware issues. So?

I think making a broad generalization on the subject of hardware vs. hardware is blah blah blah is quite an uneducated statement and we'll leave it at that.

Sounds like some people in here don't understand hardware and software and are frustrated. Not that something is inferior.

My $.02

[technocrat]

If OSX is so wonderful why the hell does when I do the updates, it always asks to update hardware that I don't even have on the machine?

In my experience windows doesn't.


I'm not saying one is better than the other but why would an OS of any platform provide an autoupdate and then ask you to download drivers or software that is useless?


Example: AirPort Extreme Software and Ipod drivers for 1st and 2nd Gen

Another rant I have is why can't I get Airport Extreme on my 15.2"? You would think that they would use a common interface like MiniPCI or something so you could upgrade or even get a PCMCIA card that's G compatible.

No offense but my first Powerbook was a 1400C and the only upgrades I could ever get was aftermarket. At least with the PC Laptops out there, you can add things as in MiniPCI or PCMCIA. Not a lot of "G" PCMCIA cards out there huh?


I have a 15.2 Powerbook with Airport and a 30GB 3rd Gen Ipod.

Weird huh?

[mrmister]

Technocrat, what would you prefer--that Apple keep tabs on your machine, your OS, what apps you have installed, maybe your docs and porn too? You can't have total privacy and total conveinence.

[mrmister]

Boy, you guys are BITCHY today!

My favorite posting is from wallinbl, right at the top of the thread. In his own words:

"Dell makes excellent servers and PCs. You are probably buying Dimension computers and Inspiron laptops. Those are designed to be inexpensive, and you get what you pay for. Next time buy a Precision, an Optiplex, or a Lattitude."

Funny. I pay for an iBook, which was inexpensive, yet it doesn't SUCK ASS. My experiences with Dell re: Inspirons has been much the same as what you tell me to expect.

So--is there a fault in my logic chain somewhere, or does Dell make crappy low-end computers?

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by mrmister:
So--is there a fault in my logic chain somewhere, or does Dell make crappy low-end computers?

Their low end computers are the same as all other low end PCs - crap. They are designed to be inexpensive, and you get what you pay for.

The iBook, while Apple's low end product, is really at the high end of computers. Apple makes a premium product line.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by technocrat:
Example: AirPort Extreme Software and Ipod drivers for 1st and 2nd Gen

Another rant I have is why can't I get Airport Extreme on my 15.2"? You would think that they would use a common interface like MiniPCI or something so you could upgrade or even get a PCMCIA card that's G compatible.

The 15" PB uses an internal PCMCIA card for Airport, while the 12/17" PBs use a MiniPCI card for Airport. Consider it an advance in technology. I guess your complaint can really be phrased as "Why didn't Apple upgrade to MiniPCI before I bought my computer?"

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by mrmister:
Technocrat, what would you prefer--that Apple keep tabs on your machine, your OS, what apps you have installed, maybe your docs and porn too? You can't have total privacy and total conveinence.

You don't have to keep tabs. The server sends down the list of available updates, along with a list of hardware requirements for each update. Then, Software Update, on your local machine, checks to see if you have the hardware needed by the update. In this method, you don't see updates for hardware you don't have, and nothing is sent to Apple.

[aktive]

dell

<homer>DOH</homer>

[technocrat]

The 15" PB uses an internal PCMCIA card for Airport, while the 12/17" PBs use a MiniPCI card for Airport. Consider it an advance in technology. I guess your complaint can really be phrased as "Why didn't Apple upgrade to MiniPCI before I bought my computer?"



Weird because my old IBM Thinkpad that was a PIII700 had minipci. Maybe I'm just preaching to the choir.

[mrmister]

"The iBook, while Apple's low end product, is really at the high end of computers. Apple makes a premium product line."

So how much does an Inspiron cost? Is it really that much less than $999?

[technocrat]

You guys also need to understand that Apple products are tightly regulared as in hardware and software. Duh. Yeah you'll have a few more problems with a PC vs. an Apple but you also have more choices on hardware and software. More varieties equals more variances between products.

Wasn't that why Apple bought all the clones and is so strict with their policies?

No offense but Apple's are a niche market.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by mrmister:
"The iBook, while Apple's low end product, is really at the high end of computers. Apple makes a premium product line."

So how much does an Inspiron cost? Is it really that much less than $999?

$699. That's 30% less (or 43% more), so it can be considered substantial.

[BkueKanoodle]

And for those of you who don't think ibook's have problems, I might point you here:

http://forums.macnn.com/forumdisplay...amp;forumid=66


Granted the boards is not the best place for an accurate sampling of statisitical data, but Apple's hardware and software problems are right about the same for the rest of the industry.

And no I'm not bashing the ibook, I'm typing this on one right now, but I would put its reliability at about the same place all of my other Windows machines. (that is to say, it works most the time

[JLFanboy]

Dude, this is one of the most well-executed flame wars I've ever read.
F*&#ing brilliant.Great argumentation.

Shut up, Killer.

Oh, and your mother dresses you funny.

[djjava]

Originally posted by JLFanboy:
Shut up, Killer.

Oh, and your mother dresses you funny.

I can't believe what i started....

[JLFanboy]

I can't believe what i started....

Yeah, geez, way to go.











Seriously, though, the sarcasm's goin' on high.

edit: Oh, and Dell sucks.