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MacKnewbie · Jul 13, 2003, 12:44 AM

This is an issue that I've seen raised a few times on previous threads. However, it's never quite answered the question compared to what I need. So I am going to ask again with some specifics.

I'm about to buy an Apple laptop in two weeks. This is going to be my first mac ever. I'm a student studying the recording industry and I am making the switch since everything in my field will be mac based. I am also getting it to start working with ProTools outside of class. Since I'm still a student, I won't be using ProTools like a professional would, just something to get me famailiar with the product for when I go out into the real world. Also, I will be using my mac for gaming as well as online stuff and your basic word processing. My roommate and I have also set up a wireless router in our apartment and part of our campus are set up for WiFi so I will be getting an airport card with my computer. So those are my needs.

I am purchasing my computer online through macmall.com. They have some deals on Airport cards and RAM. My two choices are a 12" Powerbook 867 mHz with 512 DDR and the Aiport Extreme card and the price comes out to 1,665 and a 14" iBook 900 mHz with 640 SDRAM and an Airport card and it costs 1,604. So you see how close the price comes out.

I've been reading all the threads and it's just confused me even more. The bigger monitor is something I would really like. And I was told that the graphics card in the iBook is slightly better than the one for the Powerbook. From what I've read, the two laptops perform almost the same. But than there is the supercool slot loading cd drive. And I've heard talk of Altivec or something. Not sure what that does. I've also heard about heat issues with the Powerbook. I know the Airport Extreme is faster but how much faster? Would I noticed a difference? I know the Powerbooks are a step up from the iBooks but someone said that you don't really get the good stuff unless you buy a 15" or 17" Powerbook. I need some advice.

Thanks so much!

arnette · Jul 13, 2003, 02:01 AM

I bought a 12" powerbook when they first came out and I was disappointed. I thought for the price it was a little slow. and yes, this is with 640 MB RAM installed.

Just recently I bought a 900 12" iBook and I freaking love this thing. I was pro 14" but I'm glad I went with the 12 inch. The screen size is fine, a little on the small side but not all that bad. And the portability more than makes up for it. I actually find the 900Mhz ibook to be snappier than the Powerbook. I have 640 MB of RAM in the iBook which makes a big difference.

my suggestion... get the 12" ibook. it's cheaper, more fun than the 'serious' powerbook, and great to take around and use wherever. I have a WiFi set up in my house with the slower AirPort (as opposed to AirPort Extreme) and it keeps up with my cable modem. I don't see the need for APEx... not for what I do (internet surfing, email, downloads, etc.)

Anyway, ibook all the way.

The Placid Casual · Jul 13, 2003, 02:15 AM

We all have our own opinions, as can be seen from the plethora of threads about this already. Really do do a thorough search of the forum, as there is some excellent advice out there...

For example, I do graphics work, and had a 12" PB for a few months and was very, very impressed. I would recommend one any day of the week... Others will obviously disagree.

The only way you can be sure as to what you want, is to try the machines out.

Go to an Applestore or reseller and have a play with a few machines, and see what feels 'right'.

However, to me, anyone buying a G3 (current spec) these days may as well burn their money, as when it comes to Altivec apps and resale value, you have no hope. I mean, even the G5 is here now, the G3 is coming up on 5+ years old!

With an iBook, you also get no Airport Extreme, no Bluetooth, and miss out on the best keyboard I have ever used (on the Alu series)! I would say that they the worst deals out there!

Also, if you are using Pro Tools and 'Audio' apps, it is a no brainer to get G4 machine of some kind.

If you are expecting to 'game' on the machine, think very carefully, as you will not get stunning performance on a Laptop (especiay an iBook) by any means... it will be 'passable' at best, if not worse depending on which machine you go for...

If I were you, I would wait for a week or two, at least until after 'Create/MWNY', and wait for the Alu 15" to hit the market, and also updates of the 12"... These will have better graphics, better chip etc.

Although they cost more, Powerbooks are worth it if you intend to use the machine in a serious way...

Oh, and welcome to the forum!!

Peace,

Marc

Mastrap · Jul 13, 2003, 07:41 AM

Some things to keep in mind:

The larger screen of the 14" does not translate into more screen space. The resolution is identical to the 12" screen, its just that your pixels are bigger.

The G4 takes advantage of OSX to a much greater degree than the G3, making the PB more responsive.

The 12" keyboard is vastly superior to the iBook keyboard. There really is no comparison.

Screen spanning. Just plug another monitor into the PB and you have doubled your screen real estate. Yes, the same can be achieved by applying a hack to the G3 but in the G4 it is native. And supported.

Build quality. My iBook is scratched to buggery, my PB looks like new. The aluminium body is amazingly sturdy.

Resale value. With the G5 coming out the G3 is beginning to look long in the tooth. The PB will hold it's value for longer, IMO.

Speed. Opinions on this vary wildly but for me the PB outperforms the iBook. Others will probably disagree.

RAM. You can get 1GB chips for the PB but not for the iBook.

All in all, in my personal opinion, the PB is the much better choice for the money. It is without doubt the best Mac I've ever owned. The iBook is a fine machine for home use, the PB means business.

arnette · Jul 13, 2003, 09:52 AM

haha... jeez Placid, tell me what you REALLY think.

I have no bad feelings on buying my iBook. I'm not in a race with my neighbor to have the baddest-ass computer notebook and OS X runs fine on my G3. And cooler, too. My laptop is actually on my LAP right now which was always uncomfortable when I had my PB 12" because of the heat.
Anyway, it's true that the iBook's keyboard is terrible when compared to the new PowerBooks'. And I suppose you can get a 1GB stick of RAM but you'll pay through the nose. Gaming on a mac is a bad idea to begin with but if that was an issue then G4 is the way to go. My Desert Seige game is a bit choppy with the detail levels on high so I wouldn't recommend gaming.
All in all the ibook is perfect for what I do:MS Word, Excel, email, web surfing, wireless internet, iphoto and itunes, organizational stuff, DVDs. If you are looking for something that lets you run Mathematica and do CAD work then get a powerbook. But in my opinion that's what desktops are for.

The Placid Casual · Jul 13, 2003, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by arnette:
haha... jeez Placid, tell me what you REALLY think.

I have no bad feelings on buying my iBook. I'm not in a race with my neighbor to have the baddest-ass computer notebook and OS X runs fine on my G3. And cooler, too. My laptop is actually on my LAP right now which was always uncomfortable when I had my PB 12" because of the heat.
Anyway, it's true that the iBook's keyboard is terrible when compared to the new PowerBooks'. And I suppose you can get a 1GB stick of RAM but you'll pay through the nose. Gaming on a mac is a bad idea to begin with but if that was an issue then G4 is the way to go. My Desert Seige game is a bit choppy with the detail levels on high so I wouldn't recommend gaming.
All in all the ibook is perfect for what I do:MS Word, Excel, email, web surfing, wireless internet, iphoto and itunes, organizational stuff, DVDs. If you are looking for something that lets you run Mathematica and do CAD work then get a powerbook. But in my opinion that's what desktops are for.

Sorry! Got a bit carried away there! I didn't mean to cause offence..

I also have to agree with all that you said in your 2nd post!

I guess it all comes down to what you use a machine for, and I didn't mean to state that the iBook was bad 'per se'... In fact, there are a lot of areas which I really prefer the iBook... Battery life (hugely better!), heat, general 'look' and ruggedness are just the start...

I'm writing this on a G3 466SE Clamshell iBook, that serves me really well, and is my only machine at the moment. Like you, I am running the usual Word, Excel, email, web, and iTunes type stuff, which it handles flawlessly. I have had the machine for years and have no intention of parting with it...

However, the Powerbook I bought (and sold when I ordered my G5) was much better in certain aspects. For audio apps, I really think that a G4 is a must... I also find that things like Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign really suffer on the iBook, where they flew on the powerbook. I get by with Graphic Converter, but it is not the same... If someone has the choice, and is looking to use particular altivec enhanced apps, I 'had' to say go for the PB...

As for me, I'll be sticking with my iBook, for a few years yet as it does everything I need it to, but as you suggest, I'm using a desktop machine for the more intensive work...

Sorry once again,

Peace,

Marc

iCeRaven · 11:41 AM

When you say update of the 12", do you mean PowerBook or iBook? If its the iBook, would there be a price jump?

arnette · Jul 13, 2003, 04:56 PM

Placid: Agreed. I'll be using my iBook for years to come, but certainly I'm excited for the future of Apple with the new G5 processor. If you happen to be in the market for a laptop when Apple finally puts a G5 in their Powerbook series then I will be very jealous of you.

iCeRaven: I"m sure he was referring to updates to the 12" Powerbook. I don't know when the 15" is going to the aluminum casing but the thought is that the entire PB line will see speed increases. Any increase in speed is obviously good, but 900mhz is not too bad for me. I'm a happy customer.

ccsccs7 · Jul 13, 2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by iCeRaven:
When you say update of the 12", do you mean PowerBook or iBook? If its the iBook, would there be a price jump?

The iBooks were more recently updated. It's the 12" and 17" Powerbooks which are next due for an update. (I'm not saying when though.)

Edit: How did I miss the post before mine? Left out the 15", it's a bit older than the other two Powerbooks.

iCeRaven · Jul 13, 2003, 09:07 PM

Thanks for the confirmation

MacKnewbie · Jul 14, 2003, 10:17 AM

I think one thing that I didn't stress was enough was the screen size. I have gone into apple stores and played on both the 14" and the 12" and I love the larger screen. I looked into a 15" PB but those are $500 more than the 14" iBook. When Placcid mentioned MWNY, I started looking up some stuff on it and a lot of people seem to think that an annoucement is going to be made on Wednesday about upgrades to the 15" PB. My thoughts are to look into buying the 15" PB model that is out now since the price would surely drop after the upgrades. Any thoughts? What are the advantages and disadvantages of the current 15" PB?

arnette · Jul 14, 2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by MacKnewbie:
What are the advantages and disadvantages of the current 15" PB?

Price. Maybe the wear and tear factor of the Ti and the paint. I'd get one if I had 2600 dollars, but I don't.

Scooterboy · Jul 14, 2003, 02:55 PM

As you will be using Pro Tools you've made the right decision to go with the PowerBook.
The 15" PowerBook G4 Titanium's 1 GHz G4 with 1 MB level 3 cache (which the 12" PowerBook lacks) will make a big difference in performance over the 12". You will need all the RAM you can get (1 GB) and you will probably need a large and very fast (7,200 RPM) FireWire Hard Drive or RAID depending on how much recording you'll be doing. As you've said, the prices will probably drop when the 15" PowerBooks are updated. As mentioned earlier, a Desktop PowerMac would be better for recording if you don't need the portability as they are expandable and have PCI slots to mount hardware on. A friend of mine ownes a recording studio and uses a PowerMac G3, SCSI RAID hard drives, and all his available PCI slots are filled with hardware gadgets for his studio.
Disadvantages of the current 15" PowerBook Titanium really are few aside from the complaints about paint chipping and the fact that it has been long without a major update.

Why not check the Berklee School of Music's
student laptop computer requirements as they should certainly fulfill your requirements?