[paulpolios]

hi, im starting law school next month and am getting a powerbook. i was curious if there were any other law students on this board that that use macs and what they thought of them in respect to school.
thanks,

-paul

[sworthy]

not a law student (still an undergrad) but I'm working in a law office this summer. Most of the software is PC only, but none are too demanding and run on VPC just fine. What apps are you going to use for school?

[elysian]

I'm planning on going to law school next year. I have a 15" PowerBook and I was planning on getting a new AIBook but after some research, it seems that many law schools offer exams on computer and the software they use is SofTest made by ExamSoft (www.examsoft.com). Unfortunately, their software only runs on Windows. I think some bar exams also use SofTest.

It kind of sucks because now because I might start considering law schools based on whether or not they are "Mac Friendly". That's how much I love my Mac...or maybe it's how much I dislike Windows.

Maybe if we get enough law students with Macs to email ExamSoft, they'll make an OS X version.

[paulpolios]

honestly im not sure what apps im gonna need besides office and excel which are both availible on a mac. what programs were you running that were pc based? is 512 mb of ram good enough on a 1ghz g4 to run vpc properly?

-paul

[elysian]

I'm working as a legal intern in the corporate legal department of a software security company and they only use Windows computers. However, I bring my PowerBook to work everyday and use it to log into their Windows network. There're a lot of documents that get transferred around and it's all in MS Office format, which is not too big a deal since there's Office v.X, and Acrobat format.

As for law school, read my post above.

[paulpolios]

do you think virtual pc could run that software for taking tests?

[sworthy]

we specialize in bankruptcy, so we use best case bankruptcy - which is pretty much industry standard. Also we use ACT as a database system, unfortunately both are windows only. Best Case works well on VPC, but I haven't even tried ACT because it's pretty huge. But I don't think you'd have to worry about it for school, it's a workplace app. For billing time we use TABS III, also windows only, and again I haven't tried it on VPC. I mainly use my tibook, but I do have to use the pc for a few cruical apps. I probably could get them to work if I really wanted to, but we're just a small firm and don't have any technical support and I don't want to mess anything up.

Everything else is pretty much just office which is fairly seamless (though mail.app is having a problem with sending resource.frk files instead of word docs lately, but maybe that's for another thread).

[Synchilla]

I am starting my first year of law school in the fall and shared your concerns so I called the tech service guys at the school I will be attending and they said that there are people who use macs with no problems.

[israces]

Bought my first Mac just before starting law school. Never looked back.
I haven't run across a Mac only law firm/legal department anywhere, which is really kind of surprising. Nevertheless, I've still been using a Powerbook for my practice, both on my own and with different firms that have all been "Windows only," and I haven't had any problems. You'll be fine.

[darkwing]

I graduate from IU in December and use an ibook. I switched from a pc to a Mac halfway through law school, and the main problem I had was with examsoft. However, a few professors allowed the few of us with Macs to use our laptops to take the exams if we signed a letter that stated we did not use any outside material. If the professor gave an open book exam usually they would not require examsoft.
Another issue you might have using a Mac for exams is that the professor usually wants the exam saved on a floppy disk, so you might have to buy a USB floppy drive.
As for software you will probably deal mostly with Word, WordPerfect, and PDF files. You will also have to learn Westlaw and Lexis legal research services, but these are both web based. Both work most of the time with Safari however it has problems with their pages sometimes. However, IE and Mozilla work with them.

[paulpolios]

thanks for all the input everyone, i really appreciate it. as for examsoft, i came across a website which said it isnt compatible at all on macs even with virtual pc. so my question is even if the professor allowed it, how did you manage to get it to work?

-paul

[Link]

The statement about it not being compatible *AT ALL* with macs is probably BS.

[Sosa]

Greetings,

I'm a 2L and have bought an iBook specifically to use in law school. While I have encountered a few difficulties, nothing serious enough to make me regret my choice of computing platform. The only sad thing is that I'm the only student, out of a class of nearly 100, that brings a Mac to class. A couple of others have Macs but choose to take hand notes instead.

Back to your point, your Mac will be great for 99% of the things you will be doing in law school. IMHO, better than most of your peer's laptops, most of which will be heavy, have a short battery life, and not run OS X! Additionally in terms of looks your closest competitor will be the Sony Vaio and you still win hands down. The first time I opened my iBook in class I had a bunch of girls around me impressed. Of course some guys said I had a rather feminine computer, which had never crossed my mind!

Regarding examsoft, the bastards told me last year they were working on a Mac version. I have little hope from a company that still relies on floppies to get things done! (I would encourage you to email them anyway though) My solution is to borrow a laptop from our IT department, they usually have a few available. If you can't borrow one then you have to write, which I admit sucks but I have yet to do it.

You may be using Lexis Nexis and Westlaw in your first year, if not you will certanly use it later. Although I have not used Lexis Nexis much, Westlaw seems 99% compatible with Safari. So far the only issue I've had was downloading cases in text format, for which I had to use IE. But I have not tried this in a while, so it may have been corrected.

On a side note, I've just been hired as the Westlaw rep on campus and will be undergoing training soon. I'll use my iBook of course during training and when helping other students. I'm giddy at the opportunity to show off! Anyways, I should find out soon whether there are any incompatabilities.

The only other problem I've had is from professors who rely on Powerpoint. Appleworks can convert Excel and Word documents mostly accurately, but not PP. My solution has been to download the file at the law labs and print it out. While this also rather sucks, I've only run accross it twice.

Oh I had one more difficulty with digital movies made of our first oral arguments on Windows Media Player. Although there is a Mac version of this player, it seems that the latest version in Windows is not compatible with the latest version for Macs. Thus I am unable to watch the movies on my Mac so far.

Now there have been some benefits of having a Mac. During the first semester all the law students had to bring extension cords and those multiple power socket things to class because their batteries would not last. Everyone was impressed at my utter disregard for power. My little iBook could last through an entire day of classes.*
(* reduced processor speed, low screen brightness... )

Also almost everyone here carries at least two bags: one for books and one for their large/heavy laptops. Watching them roll in is similar to sitting at an airport terminal! I love getting to class with my hands in my pocket, my Brenthaven holding my textbook and laptop on my back.

When called in class I can hold my iBook in one hand easily, moving about in the air without difficult as I discuss a case. No one else can do that with their Dells, Compaqs, and worse.

Obviously I can go on, and on about this. My advice is to screw the Windows empire and get yourself a 12" Mac. You won't regret it!

[brachiator]

I managed to stumble through three years at Berkeley with my Lombard 333, as well as sufficiently prep for the CA bar. So did a significant number of my classmates (not all Lombards, though!) I think the Powerbook will suit you fine.

I never had much use for the laptop exam software, since although I took class and meeting notes with my laptop, I handwrote all exams (including the bar exam).

I still have that same Powerbook and use it for a decent amount of work in my firm, at home. My firm is exclusively Windoze and entrenched with almost 1000 lawyers. But, with Office:Mac and LEXIS or Westlaw on the Web, there's not too much writing or research that I can't do at home, even if I have to do the final pleading formatting at the office. I also log in to the office network a great deal using Citirix, which gives me a window containing my Windoze desktop at work, and runs windows within that window.

In brief (though is a lawyer ever brief ? ), get the Powerbook you want.

[paulpolios]

I cant thank you all enough. I feel so relieved after hearing your stories. I must also note that after looking on the website macattorney.com , I wrote the webmaster and he told me that there was a Mac version of Examsoft comming out called Digital Bluebook in the near future. Thats also great news for us law students. Anyways thanks again.

-Paul

[tisoncam]

I recently purchased a 12" PB for law school. It took a couple e-mails to convince the tech support people that my Mac was going to be reliable enough to use. They want everyone to have a Dell because they have a special service contract with Dell and can "get a broken Dell fixed in a couple days." Basically I had to tell them that I had an extra computer I could use if my PB were to break.

As far as WMP files--have you tried to use VLC (www.videolan.org). I find that it can play some video formats that won't work in QT or WMP.

[The Placid Casual]

I used a Mac all the way through my law degree here in the UK, which I finished about 4 years back... No problems at all, although I had to use Office throughout...

Having worked for a few years as a lawyer for a large Insurance firm (and hating it!) I am going back to Bar School in September to qualify as a Barrister, and plan on using my iBook, and my new Dual 2.Ghz G5 to do all my work... The BVC department claims to be Windows only, but as long as I have 'Office' installed I will be fine...

Actually I plan to use 'Open Office' in X11... wonder if they will notice!

Good luck with the studies!

[kikosxl]

I will apply to law schools for enrollment in '04 but I've been working at a firm for over a year. The firm, unsurprisingly, uses PCs but I have no problem accessing the network and sharing files with my powerbook. I don't usually bring my powerbook to work.

We customarily use Acrobat, Outlook, WordPerfect (yuck), Powerpoint, Real Legal Binder, and Paradox. I'm pretty sure Real Legal, WP and Paradox would work on Virtual PC, but I've not tried it.

I've brought my mac along with me during trials and it's been quite useful. I've designed powerpoint presentations for jurors. With bluetooth i can sync with my mobile phone and also use the phone as a modem to check email from anywhere (car, hotel, court). The mac succeeded in converting powerpoint slides to pdf (hardcopy handouts for counsel) while the PC failed miserably for some reason.

In short, I think the mac will work for you as long as you have office and virtual pc installed.

[Powaqqatsi]

In Carcassonne in France (where I partially live) there are a lot of lawfirms in the neighbourhood were I live (close to the Palais De Justice. And if you look through their windows, the only thing you see is PowerMacs and Studiodisplays

[elysian]

I wrote ExamSoft about a mac version and here's my email and their reply:

We do not have a Mac compatible version of SofTest and there are no current
plans to develop a Mac compatible product.

Sincerely,

ExamSoft Support
866.429.8889
M-F 8:30am - 5:30pm ET

----- Original Message -----
From: "elysian" <elysian[at]excite[dot]com>
To: <support@examsoft.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 6:00 PM
Subject: Mac Software


> Hi, my friends and I are planning on going to law school next year we
> all have Apple laptops. Does your software run on Apple computers? If
> not, will you be offering a version before the next fall semester
> begins?
>
> Thanks

[elysian]

Originally posted by brachiator:
I managed to stumble through three years at Berkeley with my Lombard 333, as well as sufficiently prep for the CA bar. So did a significant number of my classmates (not all Lombards, though!) I think the Powerbook will suit you fine.

I never had much use for the laptop exam software, since although I took class and meeting notes with my laptop, I handwrote all exams (including the bar exam).

You must be able to write VERY fast!

[Sosa]

We do not have a Mac compatible version of SofTest and there are no current
plans to develop a Mac compatible product.

Sincerely,

ExamSoft Support

Those darn bastards! I just took a final today. I distinctly hate using the cheap PC laptops the IT department lends me. They are so disgusting! I think it has a detrimental effect on my ability to perform on the exams!

[tisoncam]

I am very lucky: my law school does not require any special exam software when taking tests on laptops!!