[rhansen_x]

Received approval today to replace my dying 667 with a new PowerBook. Besides the obviously bigger screen, the video card and FireWire 800 port - what compelling reasons are there to go for the 17" versus saving about $700 for a 15".

I'm going to have to live with this machine for a while, so I want to make the best decision. 2 weeks after I got the 667, the PowerBooks were updated - I hope to avoid this situation again.

[webb3201]

15" are bound to be updated in a short time.

Beyond that you need to determine if the larger size is a problem. I have played with a 17" and I really think IMHO it is too big for my travel needs. If the machine were something I used in the office and home, I would love the size.

As far as technology goes, many feel the optimized Radeon card of the 15" a faster vid offering than the Nvidia.

Additionally, the 15" TI is a design with the bugs worked out. That coupled with the lower prices make it a winner in my books.

K

[sworthy]

I'm usually a victim of LGS (latest and greatest syndrome),though I just bought my 15 in december, I did not feel much remorse as I saw the new 17's at MWSF. Don't get me wrong, the huge screen is nice, but I don't need it, the DDR ram doesn't help due to bottlenecks (only makes RAM more expensive for it), Airport extreme is nice, but I don't have any other computers on my network so it doesn't really matter. Firewire 800 isn't really a must have feature for most, but that depends on what you do. The nvidia graphics card is actually worse than the 15's radeon. Bluetooth is the only thing I would like as I hate having to plug in the usb dongle, but it isn't really a big deal (and that's if you have any bluetooth devices in the first place).

Also, the 15 is nicer for portability and to me the "just right" product in the line up. In order to avoid disappointment I would definitely wait, as in you NEED to wait as these machines will be updated shortly.

That said the purchase choice is a very individual one. I don't feel that the $700 gap is even nearly worth it. However, if you feel that some of the features (screen size, AE, etc) are very important to you then you should go w/ the 17.

Good luck

[geekwagon]

I upgraded from a 15" 867 (latest rev) to a PB 17" and have no regrets. That said, the battery life is much better in the 15" than in the 17". I usually got around 4 hours previously, my 17 gets 2.5-3 hours in normal usage.

As for the video card, I think it is a wash. I also used a 12" for a short while, and while I found the VGA out unacceptably fuzzy with it (typical of Nvidia,) the 440 in the 17" has absolutely wonderful picture quality. Not sure what's different but it was definitely noticeable on the same monitor setup. While the ATI card in the TI is theoretically a more capable card, I have never seen a benchmark that proves that out. I think that the general lack of quality of driver software kinda evens it out.

The size is just an issue you have to decide for yourself. The 17" isn't too big for me, but I can see how it would be for some people.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by rhansen_x:
Received approval today to replace my dying 667 with a new PowerBook. Besides the obviously bigger screen, the video card and FireWire 800 port - what compelling reasons are there to go for the 17" versus saving about $700 for a 15".

I'm going to have to live with this machine for a while, so I want to make the best decision. 2 weeks after I got the 667, the PowerBooks were updated - I hope to avoid this situation again.

This is my analysis ( see my lengthy Epinions.com review ):

15.2-inch Titanium PowerBook (SuperDrive version):

Pros:
* smaller size
* ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 graphics controller with programmable pixel and vertex shaders (excellent especially for graphics gaming)

Cons:
* regular AirPort built-in
* no FireWire 800
* BlueTooth optional
* relatively easily scratched exterior

17-inch Aluminum PowerBook:

Pros:
* built-in AirPort Extreme
* built-in BlueTooth
* built-in FireWire 800
* highly durable exterior, difficult to scratch
* backlit keyboard

Cons:
* nVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go graphics controller (without programmable pixel or vertex shaders; unable to run some high-intensity Macintosh graphics games, such as Shadowbane, which requires an ATI Rage 128 graphics controller with at least 32MB of VRAM>
* difficult-to-open latch, which requires silicone cushions between the lid and the base to ensure proper easy opening

Between the two, I eventually opted for the 17-inch PowerBook because of AirPort Extreme. I was very concerned that Apple may try to leverage AirPort Extreme technology very quickly, and thus make the 15.2-inch Titanium model outdated unexpectedly early.

[GlobalNomad]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:

Cons:
nVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go graphics controller (without programmable pixel or vertex shaders; unable to run some high-intensity Macintosh graphics games, such as Shadowbane, which requires an ATI Rage 128 graphics controller with at least 32MB of VRAM>

Are you sure you are unable to play the game. The Geforce 4 440 64 MB should easily be able to out perfore a ATI Rage 128 with only 32 MB of ram.

The Geforce 4 440 card is based on the desktop version of the Geforce 4mx. Which is itself not a bad card. Sure there are faster modles out there, but by no means is it a crappy graffics card. Are there some Unreal Tournament 2003 scores between the 15" 17"?

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
Pros:
* ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 graphics controller with programmable pixel and vertex shaders (excellent especially for graphics gaming)

Waht?

I've got a Radeon 9000 Pro 128Mb here in my Athlon box, and I am pretty confident that only the 9500/9600/9700/9800 were the only ATI based cards that could do the programmable pixel shading...so, logically, the 9000 Mobility chipset shouldn't be able to do so either...

[GlobalNomad]

Originally posted by Misanthrope:
Waht?

I've got a Radeon 9000 Pro 128Mb here in my Athlon box, and I am pretty confident that only the 9500/9600/9700/9800 were the only ATI based cards that could do the programmable pixel shading...so, logically, the 9000 Mobility chipset shouldn't be able to do so either...

No I am almost 90% sure that it can.
/me thinks back to the news about ATI releasing some silly video showing the power of vector shading (whaterver).

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by GlobalNomad:
No I am almost 90% sure that it can.
/me thinks back to the news about ATI releasing some silly video showing the power of vector shading (whaterver).

http://mirror.ati.com/products/radeo...pro/index.html

It can do some, but not a lot. No where near the 9500+ class of GPUs.

So it's a middle road deal. Better than the GeForce4, but it will get its ass handed to it by a 9600 Mobility.

[urrl5201]

I moved from the 667 DVI to the 17". What may not have been mentioned is that although the 667 DVI was arguably the quietest and coolest running of the Ti series, the 17" is even quieter and less sound intrusive than my 667 DVI was. And it is certainly cooler to the touch. The 17" hinge feels like it is hydraulically powered compared to my 667 DVI. When it was new I felt I had to open the 667 very quickly to avoid undue stress, I felt like I was trying to pry open a giant clam sometimes and held my breath each time I opened it for fear I would snap a hinge. Both hands were needed to hold and open it. The 17" opens with one finger and I do not need to hold it down with the opposite hand. Screen marks with the Ti series were a nuisance to me and to this day I am puzzled at the design. There have been reports the 17" LCD frame will contact the hand rest but as mentioned it is easily remedied with some clear silicone cushions; this to me beats inserting and removing a screen saver plastic sheet any day. Basically though I feel many problems were ironed out with the 17" and even when it came out there were no abundant reports of problems like with other new versions. Hopefully the new 15" will fare as well. Of this I can be sure; I will not be drooling even when the new versions appear.
On my vacation, using some exterior Labtec speakers, I was so into the James Bond movie "Die Another Day", that when the ending credits began rolling up the screen I truly felt as if I had just come back to my Motel room from my experiences with agent 007. It was like awakening from a dream and I do not exagerate. That huge 17" screen is hypnotic and puts you in the action. The interesting part is the movie was not on a DVD, I watched it from my new exterior
120 gig firewire 800 HD that stores and plays DVD rental movies (using DVDBackup software) and edits and plays full screen video without a glitch or dropped frame. Understandably now I only have eyes for 17 inches of Apple Bliss. So buy what you want. I did and made the best purchase I ever made with a laptop, and I have had 3 PC laptops and 3 Ti Powerbooks.