[newportnews]

I went to my university tech store today and I was looking on their order list and they had listed some new specs for iBooks and Powerbooks.

They wouldn;t let me take the paper with me but I copied it down and here is what it said:

iBook
900 Mhz G4
(100 Mhz Bus)
256K L2
128 MB
30 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (32 MB)
CD-ROM

$999

iBook
900 Mhz G4
(100 Mhz Bus)
256K L2
256 MB RAM
40 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (32 MB RAM)
Combo

$1399


Powerbook G4 12"
1 Ghz G4
256K L2
1 MB L3
256 MB RAM
40 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (64 MB)
Combo
USB 2

$1799

(w/ Superdrive $1999)


Powerbook G4 15"
1.25 Ghz G4
256 K L2
1 MB L3
512 MB
60 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (64 MB)
Superdrive
USB 2
FW 800
Backlit Keyboard

$2799


Powerbook G4 17"

1.25 Ghz G4
256 K L2
1 MB L3
512 MB
80 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (128 MB)
Superdrive
USB 2
FW 800
Airport Extreme
Backlit Keyboard

$3299

[ae86_16v]

This better be real!!!

Did they say when you could order?

By the way, aren't those kind of expensive for Educational Discount?

[newportnews]

I think its real... the guy at the counter seemed to be real worried when I noticed the new specs.

1 Correction though:

The Powerbook 12" has a Radeon 9000 Mobility with 64 MB.

Did a lot of cutting and pasting to save time and that slipped through.

Sorry

EDIT: Those are retail price... my institution gets 15% of all Apple hardware so I just added 15% to all the prices.

[Eug Wanker]

iBook G4? That would seriously surprise me.

[todrain]

No way that this is real... Apple wouldn't slip up in print... web maybe

[TheIceMan]

newportnews:

Yeah, this is what I care about here:
Powerbook G4 15"
1.25 Ghz G4
256 K L2
1 MB L3
512 MB
60 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (64 MB)
Superdrive
USB 2
FW 800
Backlit Keyboard

$2799

When did they say you can order? Although apple has slipped before on their website, it does seem strange that they would let this type of information slip out again.

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
iBook G4? That would seriously surprise me.

This is what makes me doubt all of it as well. There was just recently an article about pushing the G3 to 1.1Ghz.

[Wiskedjak]

Doubtful. I work at a university computer store. We haven't received any pre-specs. And, why would Apple send pre-specs to a university store, anyways? University students, the ones who usually work at these stores, are renowned for their inability to keep a secret. The chances for Steve to get upstaged once again would be far too high. Nevermind wondering what sort of advantage could possibly be gained by pre-releasing specs to a university store.

Nevermind that I'm increasingly becoming convinced that the next PBs will have G5s. Sure, we've all been told that G5s won't be in a PB for at least a year, which would only make it all the more impressive for Steve's ego to release a G5 PB one year ahead of schedule. Apple is gonna have to pull something pretty amazing out of it's hat to justify such a long delay in updating the PB line ... a G5 PB is the only thing I can think of.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
This is what makes me doubt all of it as well. There was just recently an article about pushing the G3 to 1.1Ghz.

That and the 256 KB L2 cache on the 1.25 GHz G4.

One would expect them to use the 7457, which has 512 KB L2 cache.

And no I don't expect a G5 in the new PowerBooks. It's delayed because of the 7457.

[Naz]

if that is all we can expect I wont feel so bad about getting the current PB

[skyman]

Originally posted by newportnews:
I went to my university tech store today and I was looking on their order list and they had listed some new specs for iBooks and Powerbooks.

They wouldn;t let me take the paper with me but I copied it down and here is what it said:

iBook
900 Mhz G4
(100 Mhz Bus)
256K L2
128 MB
30 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (32 MB)
CD-ROM

$999

These iBook specs are total BS!

[pdovinh]

I used to work at The Conputer Store in Seattle in '86 and '87 and it is now called "The Mac Store" and have been buying and learning just a little bit of their selling "routine" over the many years:

I was there today to pick up the iSight and BOY! they are blowing out iMacs, eMacs, iBooks, PBs, and PMs like CRAZY. They are only this pushy when a bunch of new arrivals are just around the corner. I definitely believe that a bunch of something Apple are coming and those guys know. I am holding cash in hands and standing by for the next few weeks...

[ae86_16v]

Yeah, but that's what people have been saying for weeks. So and So has no inventory. . . so and so said they are expecting something new soon.

We'll see when Paris comes around . . .

[cSurfr]

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
Yeah, but that's what people have been saying for weeks. So and So has no inventory. . . so and so said they are expecting something new soon.

We'll see when Paris comes around . . .

Amen!

[voodoo]

There are no PB available in Iceland. The channel is dry. Something is coming.

[PSU guy]

No combo drive on the 15"?

[tgrundke]

Sounds reasonable - albeit a bit pricey.

My hope is that we see an entry level iBook drop to $899 as a 'price leader' (ie - for advertisement purposes to get people in the door and interested), and then $1099. Apple still needs an inexpensive 14" model in the $1399 range.

From there, you can get a 12" PowerBook at $1599/$1799 and the PowerBooks should being at $2199 - $2699.

Hasn't Apple learned from the past when it comes to pricing? When the PowerBook price points shifted upward to $2699 and $2999 sales were the worst they had ever been. I know that Apple keeps trying to pack in features to make them a better value proposition, but it would be great to see PowerBook 15" models in the low to mid $2k range, and then pop the 17" model at $3k plus.

And for the love of GOD, Apple, don't put 128mb of RAM as a base anywhere in the lineup!

[Simon]

Nice specs, but I highly doubt it.

- G4 in the iBook?

- What screen size on the iBooks?

- If this info is genuine, why does Apple say what the bus speed is on the iBook, but not on the PowerBooks (where it is of much more interest)?

- The GPU on the iBooks is unchanged. Not very likely.

- The L2 and L3 are the same on all PowerBooks. But the G4 is clocked lower on the 12". Why? Doesn't make sense.

- The 12" gets USB2, but not FW800? Why? FW800 is a pro feature. All PowerMacs and PowerBooks are going to get it.

- Radeon 7500 M on a 12" PowerBook? Riiiiiight. That GPU is in the current iBooks. No way they'd put it in the future PowerBooks. Make that a Radeon 9000 M at least.

- The 12" is too expensive. The gap between the iBooks and PowerBooks is much too large. Especially if the iBook gets a G4. Who in the name of burning hell would pay $400 just for 33MHz more on the bus and USB2 ports? Nobody.

- The 256k L2 on the PowerBooks is much too low. On the 15" and 17" it should be 512k.

- Much too expensive. No way Apple can do such a moderate update and raise prices by $200. Especially now that the G5s are in the desktops. People would be insane to buy a 15" or a 12". Apple just lowered prices two months ago. Why suddenly go up again when PC notebooks are coming down? No way.

Many, many questions. Much too many.

Therefore, I call BS on those specs.

[Crusoe]

Real or not you can count on them jacking the prices back up on the Powerbooks. Price reductions are to flush out stock (though the 17" hasn't moved). They will be updated products with better specs. With lower CPU power consumption/heat, better GPUs, and a few fluffy features, people will pay the piper.

Spec problems
Cache is wrong no matter what, 7457s have 512 L2.

If the 17" does come with 128MB VRAM and the 15" doesn't, that's where my bonus is going.

[skyman]

Originally posted by tgrundke:
[B}My hope is that we see an entry level iBook drop to $899 as a 'price leader' (ie - for advertisement purposes to get people in the door and interested), and then $1099. Apple still needs an inexpensive 14" model in the $1399 range. [/B]

Ahh...you dream sir...you dream.

[iWrite]

NO WAY is there going to be "G4 900Mhz" in an iBook!

That was the laugh of the morning!

That is definitely just something that the university typed up and they got it wrong, period.

In fact, maybe it's someone playing a joke.

Apple made it very clear that they're not moving the iBook beyond the G3 until next year sometime.

[Eug]

Simon, I don't believe the specs either, but not necessarily for the reasons you say.

Originally posted by Simon:
The GPU on the iBooks is unchanged. Not very likely.

I could believe that, considering the GPU options out there. The 7500 is adequate for the iBook and OS X, and much cheaper than higher-end Radeons.

The 12" is too expensive. The gap between the iBooks and PowerBooks is much too large. Especially if the iBook gets a G4. Who in the name of burning hell would pay $400 just for 33MHz more on the bus and USB2 ports? Nobody.

I'd pay a few hundred premium for 1 MB L3 cache, USB 2, faster FSB, and monitor spanning.

The 256k L2 on the PowerBooks is much too low. On the 15" and 17" it should be 512k.

The L2 is built into the CPU. Apple has no control over it, aside from using a different chip. ie. If they're forced to use a faster hot 7455, it would have to have 256 KB L2 cache. Mind you, I'd expect them to use a 7457 with 512 KB L2 cache (hence the delay).

[juanpacolopez]

Originally posted by newportnews:
Powerbook G4 15"
1.25 Ghz G4
256 K L2
1 MB L3
512 MB
60 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (64 MB)
Superdrive
USB 2
FW 800
Backlit Keyboard

If these specs are true (which I suspect they are NOT), I'm glad I got such a good deal on my Ti.

However, that being said. There WILL NOT be a 900Mhz G4 iBook for $999. It just ain't gonna happen. That's faster than the current 12" PB and half the price. Don't buy it for a second, not even one

Secondly, I highly doubt Apple will put a faster video card in the 17" than the 15" without offering 15" BTO option for the better card. The reason being LOTS of people want that extra horsepower, but comparatively few are prepared to deal with the size of the BigAl.

It's kind of like my case. While I HAD the money to get a 17", it was:

1) far, far too big for how much I lug my machine around every day

2) too expensive when compared to the sweet deal I got on my Ti.

Having said all that, if they offer a 1.25Ghz 15" w/ a 128Mb RADEON 9600 (at the very least BTO) I may have to consider selling my dear Ti. Not that I WANT too, but that would be a pretty tempting boost in GPU speed

[Simon]

Eug, I agree partly. But, I think you see the update too relaxed. It is 8 months since the last intro. PC notebooks have fallen in price quite a bit. Apple can't just intro a little something. They need to rock the house. Price-wise and spec-wise. If they offer no big update in specs then prices must go way down and Steve probably would hate to do that. On the other hand, Moto is goofing up the 7457 (again Moto dammit) so the update will probably have to be more moderate or then, delayed by quite some time...

Originally posted by Eug:
The 7500 is adequate for the iBook and OS X, and much cheaper than higher-end Radeons.

But it's old like hell. They could go with the GeForce 420/460 - especially if the go Radeon 9600 Mob on the new PowerBooks. I agree though that a 9000Mob is an overkill on an iBook.

I'd pay a few hundred premium for 1 MB L3 cache, USB 2, faster FSB, and monitor spanning.

You would, I would. But, hey, we're freaks.

Joe Sixpack probably won't. Especially not in the current economic climate. You remember all the moaning when the 12" was intro'd about it being a Al iBook at a PowerBook price. Well, here we go again.

BTW, the "faster" FSB would hardly be more than 33MHz more. I highly doubt a 167MHz bus in a 12" PowerBook. And we know how efficient Apple's G4 implementation of DDR is... And, the spanning is a non-issue, because the iBook gets it too, all it takes is a line in firmware. Everybody is doing it even though Apple wants to artificially cripple the iBook in order to advertize spanning as a PowerBook-only.

The L2 is built into the CPU. Apple has no control over it, aside from using a different chip. ie. If they're forced to use a faster hot 7455, it would have to have 256 KB L2 cache. Mind you, I'd expect them to use a 7457 with 512 KB L2 cache (hence the delay).

I know that L2 is on-die. The problem is that Apple can hardly stick with the 7455. They almost have to go with the 7457. The heat and power requirements will just about allow them to go to 1.25GHz max with a 7455 and that is the least they would need to upgrade. 1.33GHz would be better, but then we'll get an Al frying pan. No way.

I know about the mess Moto is in. But if they let Moto work on it forever, they might as well go straight to 0.9 fabbed 970's (the alleged 980 maybe?). How long can Moto pull this crap off til it becomes ridiculous? When will IBM have a 1.4GHz 970/980 on 0.9 die? I do not believe in a G5 PowerBook as a next rev, but Moto is putting Apple in a rather tight sqeeze now, aren't they.

Ah, speculation is so fun. Got to love it.

[crispinwilliams]

Simon - you claim:
***********************************************

I know that L2 is on-die. The problem is that Apple can hardly stick with the 7455. They almost have to go with the 7457. The heat and power requirements will just about allow them to go to 1.25GHz max with a 7455 and that is the least they would need to upgrade. 1.33GHz would be better, but then we'll get an Al frying pan. No way.

***********************************************

but Motorola claims that their low-k process reduces power by 20%.. and they have also stated that they are fabricating the 7455 in low-k.. so one can imagine 1.25 GHz or 1.33 GHz without a big power increase..

However to stay with the 7455 - even with a speed bump - is so unexciting that I cannot imagine SJ coming to Paris to announce it..

I still do not understand why everyone wants a G5 in a powerbook.. especially since the forums have been clogged for the last six months about the heat of the 12 inch - and the short battery life... surely it is more interesting for powerbooks to get something that uses very low power? Why not push IBM to add altivec onto their G3 chip .. and bring out the 750GX running at 1.5 GHz, less than 10W power fabricated in 0.09 micron technology... and then make a dual cpu for the 17 inch

[Ryan1524]

premature specification?

[TheIceMan]

Hehehe. Good one.

[David Hagan]

I think everything is on track for a PowerBook rev at Mac Expo Paris. But the specs posted here, well, they are questionable, at best.

[Simon]

Originally posted by crispinwilliams:
but Motorola claims that their low-k process reduces power by 20%.. and they have also stated that they are fabricating the 7455 in low-k.. so one can imagine 1.25 GHz or 1.33 GHz without a big power increase..

Intersting. So they are actually selling low-k 7455's already? Really?

Last I heard they were stuck with the low-k so they decided to do low-k on the 7457 and leave the 7455 the way it is...

It would be good to hear that they can put out 1.3GHz 7455's that fit into a PowerBook.

However to stay with the 7455 - even with a speed bump - is so unexciting that I cannot imagine SJ coming to Paris to announce it..

Many here hope he'll announce much more than just a speed bump: USB2, FW800, more L3, faster busses, better GPUs, etc. That would already be quite nice, wouldn't it? Even if it means the 7455 is the PowerBook CPU for another rev.

I still do not understand why everyone wants a G5 in a powerbook..

Beacuse G5 is the buzz word in the Mac comunnity presently. It just makes the PowerBook sound better.

especially since the forums have been clogged for the last six months about the heat of the 12 inch - and the short battery life... surely it is more interesting for powerbooks to get something that uses very low power? Why not push IBM to add altivec onto their G3 chip .. and bring out the 750GX running at 1.5 GHz, less than 10W power fabricated in 0.09 micron technology... and then make a dual cpu for the 17 inch

That has been discussed many times already. Generally most people would welcome an IBM 750 with Altivec and a true DDR bus. Some even believe we will actually see it one day ("Mojave", the successor to "Gobi"). But most comments also stressed the fact that it would probably take IBM more time to get that thing running than Moto to get a 7457-RM out. After all, it would be quite a change to the 750. Then again, with the 970 IBM already has gained experience with an Altivec-like vector unit.

In addition, some people don't see why IBM should put the necessary effort into a chip that is only used in iBooks by now. They would rather see IBM finish a 0.9 fabbed 970 running with low power-requirements.

I agree with both sides. And of course, I'd like to see both happen. The new 750 for the portables and eMac. The 970 for the PowerMacs. Move up the portables when the 970 gets a mobile or low-power option.

[mixin visuals]

i want a powrbook bad

[Simon]

Originally posted by mixin visuals:
i want a powrbook bad

Guess what?

You're not alone here.

[crispinwilliams]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Simon:
[B]Intersting. So they are actually selling low-k 7455's already? Really?

Last I heard they were stuck with the low-k so they decided to do low-k on the 7457 and leave the 7455 the way it is...

It would be good to hear that they can put out 1.3GHz 7455's that fit into a PowerBook.



I did not mean to imply that motorola was producing low-k 7455 for the new powerbook range.. but their press release of June 2 claims..

Motorola, Inc. has delivered some of the first volume shipments of microprocessors produced using a low-k insulating dielectric during the metallization process. Motorola has applied this process to PowerPC microprocessor products including the G4 PowerPC processor, Motorola's MPC 7455 and the recently introduced 7457. Products manufactured with this method run up to 20 percent faster and at lower power than those made without it while maintaining high yields and reliability. This manufacturing breakthrough is a part of Motorola's ongoing commitment to high performance products. Motorola has led the industry in volume shipments of Silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technology since fourth quarter 2001.


If this happened in June - it is not unreasonable to believe that by now these processors are available to Apple..motorola's low-k press release

[Simon]

Originally posted by crispinwilliams:
If this happened in June - it is not unreasonable to believe that by now these processors are available to Apple..motorola's low-k press release

Very interesting indeed. Thanks!

This leeds us then to the question why Apple isn't using them respectively why there has been no PowerBook intro yet.

If Moto has a low-k model of the 7455 ready and could ship in volume, but Apple has been delaying the PowerBook intro for two months, does this necessarily mean the new PowerBooks are waiting for a 7457?

I sure would hope so.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Simon:
If Moto has a low-k model of the 7455 ready and could ship in volume, but Apple has been delaying the PowerBook intro for two months, does this necessarily mean the new PowerBooks are waiting for a 7457?

I sure would hope so.

It was said lately that Moto has serious production issues with the 7457. There is no confirmation though.

[bauhaus]

So the top of the line G5 would have only 64MB RAM for its GPU but the 17"PB would have 128MB... ummmm NO!!

That's a HUGE pipe dream alert.

Also, what 60GB drive would fill for the 15"?? Toshiba's? There are only two real makers in the 2.5" 9.5mm 60GB drive makers: Toshiba and HGST. HGST is a high-end drive and Apple has _never_ used the high-speed drives. The Toshiba is a medium-end drive, that performs like a low-end drive (if that makes any sense: it's a 5400rpm drive that acts like a 4200rpm drive) I guess that would look good on paper which is all Apple seems to be striving for these days.

[crispinwilliams]

Further info for those who like to speculate is a document produced by Motorola concerning power consumption dated August 5 2003.. where they evaluated the low power version of the 7457 .. 7.6 W at 1 GHz if I recall correctly. Personally I would imagine that this power consumption test should be done on a production cpu - not a prototype. Anyway I find it relevent that they only quote the low-power 7457 at 1 GHz rather than the standard 7457 at 1.3 GHz. This could imply that the low power version is in a more advanced state... if so - then maybe the dual cpu is not a dream but en route..

Yes - what would we do if we had nothing to speculate about..

[legionare]

Originally posted by bauhaus:
So the top of the line G5 would have only 64MB RAM for its GPU but the 17"PB would have 128MB... ummmm NO!!

That's a HUGE pipe dream alert.

Also, what 60GB drive would fill for the 15"?? Toshiba's? There are only two real makers in the 2.5" 9.5mm 60GB drive makers: Toshiba and HGST. HGST is a high-end drive and Apple has _never_ used the high-speed drives. The Toshiba is a medium-end drive, that performs like a low-end drive (if that makes any sense: it's a 5400rpm drive that acts like a 4200rpm drive) I guess that would look good on paper which is all Apple seems to be striving for these days.

Fujitsu also makes a 60gb laptop drive (MHS2060AT). Actually, Hitachi/IBM, Toshiba, and Fujitsu all have a 80gb laptop drive model, although only Hitachi/IBM's are widely available in the US.

[Eug]

Originally posted by crispinwilliams:
Further info for those who like to speculate is a document produced by Motorola concerning power consumption dated August 5 2003.. where they evaluated the low power version of the 7457 .. 7.6 W at 1 GHz if I recall correctly. Personally I would imagine that this power consumption test should be done on a production cpu - not a prototype. Anyway I find it relevent that they only quote the low-power 7457 at 1 GHz rather than the standard 7457 at 1.3 GHz. This could imply that the low power version is in a more advanced state... if so - then maybe the dual cpu is not a dream but en route..

Yes - what would we do if we had nothing to speculate about..

The low power version only runs with a 133 MHz bus. The 167 MHz FSB 1.3 GHz chip is in a different document.

[crispinwilliams]

Originally posted by Eug:
The low power version only runs with a 133 MHz bus. The 167 MHz FSB 1.3 GHz chip is in a different document.

Dear Eug...
I think you are missing the point of what I am trying to say..
on the motorola 7457 webpage it is full of links to documents..
there is the MPC7457EC that describes the standard 7457 cpu that can run at 1.3 GHz, there is MPC7457RXNXPNS that describes the lowpower 7457 that runs at a max of 1 GHz with a 133 MHz system bus. Both these documents were posted on 7/24/2003. Then there is a document AN2436 specifying power consumption - this document was posted on 8/5/2003. This is a comparison of the MPC7410 (400 MHz 1.8 V), MPC7455 (800MHZ 1.85V) and the MPC7457 (1GHz 1.1V)... these draw 4.3 W, 22.8 W and 7.67 W

This is the low power 7457 .. it is just curious that they have not realeased a similar document (well I haven't found such a document) for the standard 7457.. which leads to the speculation that this low power 7457 may (or may not) be in a better state of mass production than the standard 7457.

In addition the power drawn by this low-power version is so low that one can imagine Apple doing all they can to squeeze two these into a powerbook - and claiming to have the first dual cpu powerbook etc etc..

[bauhaus]

Originally posted by legionare:
Fujitsu also makes a 60gb laptop drive (MHS2060AT). Actually, Hitachi/IBM, Toshiba, and Fujitsu all have a 80gb laptop drive model, although only Hitachi/IBM's are widely available in the US.

Sorry, forgot Fujitsu (but it's hard to find any products in the US using that drive.) As for the 80GB in the 17"PB, it'll probably be a 4200rpm drive too seeing as the 5400rpm 80GB from HGST just came on the market a few days ago (and once again, Apple has always cheaped out on the hard drives.)

For clarification (not to you, legionare, but anyone else reading):
Hitachi/IBM is now HGST (IBM sold its storage division off to Hitachi and it is now Hitachi Global Storage Tech)

[ae86_16v]

Thanks for the numbers CrispinWilliams.

Here is something that I pulled from this site.

"A 1.2 GHz PPC970 is expected to draw only 19W."

- http://macbuyersguide.com/editorials...ial-ppc970.htm

The technicals are here. . .

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/t...56D21006AE8A2/$file/PPC970_MPF_Review.pdf

[iSilver]

none of the specs mentioned in the original post for this article contain refernce to bluetooth being standard with the protables, hence my belief these specs are not correct .... but who knows!!

[riverfreak]

Originally posted by voodoo:
There are no PB available in Iceland. The channel is dry. Something is coming.

Hmm. Wonder what the normal supply channel for Powerbooks is in Iceland. It's gotta be HUGE.

[nobitacu]

Hahaha, this is got to be the funnest thing I've ever heard in my life! just look at the specs, the lies are all over it. If you know computers well enough, you can see the BS posted all over it. People that replied to this has already pointed out some of the BS looking specs already as well.

Ming

[GORDYmac]

Would there even be a 900 MHz G4? Wouldn't it be 933 MHz?

That 12" PB's specs are what I've been waiting for. Too bad no backlit screen.

[Eug]

Originally posted by GORDYmac:
Would there even be a 900 MHz G4? Wouldn't it be 933 MHz?

Correct. 900 is not possible with a 133 bus and a standard multiplier.

That 12" PB's specs are what I've been waiting for. Too bad no backlit screen.

Do you mean backlit keyboard?

[docholiday]

EDIT: I am an idiot... please ignore this post.