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Sandbaggins · Sep 16, 2003, 04:08 AM

15-inch: 1.25GHz, 2GB 333MHz DDR RAM max, SuperDrive

12-inch: 1GHz,

17-inch: 1.33GHz, 512K L2 cache. 2GB maximum memory. Gains USB 2.0 as well.

Sandbaggins · Sep 16, 2003, 04:09 AM

15-inch: 1.25GHz, 2GB 333MHz DDR RAM max, SuperDrive, lighted keyboard, FireWire 800 and 400, USB 2.0, Bluetooth, Gigabit Ethernet. $1999 and 1.25GHz $2599. Available today.

12-inch: 1GHz,

17-inch: 1.33GHz, 512K L2 cache. 2GB maximum memory. Gains USB 2.0 as well.

ae86_16v · Sep 16, 2003, 04:12 AM

Oh my god. . .

klinux · Sep 16, 2003, 04:13 AM

Just saw it. Woo-hoo! I won't buy it until Panther is released, however. Save that extra $130 or so.

chrisutley · Sep 16, 2003, 04:14 AM

1.25GHz for $1999? Nice deal right there...

skateray · Sep 16, 2003, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by klinux:
Just saw it. Woo-hoo! I won't buy it until Panther is released, however. Save that extra $130 or so.

HAHAHAH and how long have you been waiting.... where is my credit card?

jbartone · Sep 16, 2003, 04:16 AM

www.macrumors.com has the full 12" specs.

- New 12" PowerBook: 1GHz with 512k Cache, $1599 Euro. GeForce fx go, usb 2.0. Both available today. $1799 Euro 12"/Superdrive. Yes, they all have the 7457 Chip.

chrisutley · Sep 16, 2003, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by jbartone:
www.macrumors.com has the full 12" specs.

- New 12" PowerBook: 1GHz with 512k Cache, $1599 Euro. GeForce fx go, usb 2.0. Both available today. $1799 Euro 12"/Superdrive. Yes, they all have the 7457 Chip.

wonder what the video out is like

ae86_16v · Sep 16, 2003, 04:19 AM

Apple Forums posted DVI-out.

chrisutley · Sep 16, 2003, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
Apple Forums posted DVI-out.

that would be tasty

Sandbaggins · Sep 16, 2003, 04:31 AM

PowerBooks updated

Jobs then moved on to one of the areas where new products are expected: the portable market. He again stated that 2003 has been "The year of the notebook" for Apple. While the industry averages 24-25 per cent all computers sold as notebooks, Apple has sold 42 per cent last quarter. The 17 and 12-inch PowerBook configurations announced in January at Macworld Expo San Francisco were repeated, and there are changes.

The 17-inch PowerBook G4 now runs at up to 1.33GHz with 512K L3 cache, and 2GB maximum memory. Like the Power Mac G5 and recently updated iMacs, it now features USB 2.0 (backwards compatible with USB 1.1 devices).

The 12-inch PowerBook's G4 now runs at 1GHz, and has a DVI video port instead of the original VGA-only link.

The 15.2-inch PowerBook's G4 is available at 1.25GHz, with a maximum 2GB 333MHz DDR RAM. The new mid-range portable features a DVD-R SuperDrive, and is available today. It features the same anodized-aluminium case as the 12-inch and 17-inch models, and is now ready for 802.11g 54Mbps AirPort Extreme.

Like the 17-inch PowerBook it features an auto-sensing llighted keyboard, FireWire 800 and 400, USB 2.0, Bluetooth, and 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet networking.

Wireless keyboard and mouse

Jobs also announced an Apple wireless keyboard and mouse, based on Bluetooth. He claimed that adaptive frequency hopping reduces interference. It features 128-bit encryption.

The mouse remains a single-button affair.

"This will be great for offices and classrooms full of these things," Jobs told the crowd. They will cost $59 each - no UK prices available at this minute.

per Macworld UK

TC · Sep 16, 2003, 04:38 AM

Have a look at the config chart at Apple:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

The cheaper 15" is missing a few items, no backlit keyboard, no airport extreme card, less RAM, smaller hard disk and the slightly slower processor.

Makes the top of the range 15" look more attractive even for the extra cost!

klinux · Sep 16, 2003, 04:39 AM

Damn that one button mouse.

(To those of you that say buy another one - I have - a cordless logitech combo. But why won't Apple come out with one?!? Grr.)

trublue · Sep 16, 2003, 04:40 AM

WTF! That is my budget limit too!

http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

Please tell me that I can't read or something.

Otherwise...cool.

How long do you think this will last until there is a g5? January? June?

ae86_16v · Sep 16, 2003, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by TC:
Have a look at the config chart at Apple:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

The cheaper 15" is missing a few items, no backlit keyboard, no airport extreme card, less RAM, smaller hard disk and the slightly slower processor.

Makes the top of the range 15" look more attractive even for the extra cost!

Yeah, but is it really worth the extra 500? I don't really care about the backlit keyboard (never used it on the 17"). Now the question is that the processor really that much slower?

trublue · Sep 16, 2003, 04:42 AM

No backlit on 15" combo!

trublue · Sep 16, 2003, 04:49 AM

Does the front side bus remain the same on the 15"? THX

TC · Sep 16, 2003, 04:49 AM

Just looked at the BTO options, the 512 RAM comes as 2 sticks, you have to pay $100 more for it to come as one stick!!

The lowest options you can get for the Superdrive model is to drop the drive and get a 60GB hard disk, this drops the price to $2324.

You can't drop the airport extreme card which is a $99 extra for the combo model!

I just upped the combo version to the same spec as the superdrive model and it comes to $2473. So you are paying $126 for the backlit keyboard and faster processor.

Link · Sep 16, 2003, 04:49 AM

Calm down people.

There is a BTO option (see OS and keyboard) for backlit keyboards on the 15"

It's $69 more.

klinux · Sep 16, 2003, 04:51 AM

Well, if one customize the Superdrive 15" to 60gb combo, it comes down to $324 more than the combo 15".

For the price, you get an extra 256MB ram (~$50), a 802.11g card ($100), 25% faster CPU (prob little real-life speed difference), and a backlit KB.

Prob not worth it in my opinion. Either go with the combo or the superdrive

TC · Sep 16, 2003, 04:52 AM

Hold up, you can add the backlit keyboard as a BTO option, $69 extra.

So a 1GHz 15" with exactly the same spec as the Superdrve model apart from the processor comes to $2542.

So it is only $57 extra for a 25% faster processor.

Of course you need to take into account how expensive Apple are on RAM + hard disks. Seems a bit of a rip off that you can't drop the RAM and airport extreme on the top model.

TheIceMan · Sep 16, 2003, 04:54 AM

Man, NICE! I sure hope they got the fan and heat issues resolved.

babajazz · Sep 16, 2003, 04:56 AM

where is the L3 cache people?

trublue · Sep 16, 2003, 04:59 AM

Same bus 167...512k level 2 cache.

ptoomey3 · Sep 16, 2003, 05:04 AM

Is this news????

http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

under the audio section it lists

"internal omnidirectional microphone"

but I see no metnion of it anywhere else. Is this new? Is this a misprint?

edit:
I just found this
http://a1344.g.akamai.net/7/1344/51/...S_09162003.pdf

It lists the microphone as being under the left speaker grill. Have powerbooks always had this? this is my first powerbook so maybe I've never really looked before.

as2 · Sep 16, 2003, 05:06 AM

Looks nice... now I'm not sure if I should get a new iMac, or a 15" Powerbook... decisions decisions...

Can't find any UK pricing yet though. Applestore seems to be down!

klinux · Sep 16, 2003, 05:08 AM

1 MB L3 cache is on chip.

Lassitudo · Sep 16, 2003, 05:08 AM

In speed and abilty, Mac still trails in the laptop market. Form over function only goes so far, especially at their price. I love Macs and anxiously await my G5. It's somewhat clear that Mac abandoned their price premium on appearance w/ the G5, though it's still a pretty machine. Anyway... for you laptop people... get a G5 or a top G4, and save on the laptop... even a remote iBook is likely to serve your purposes.

Sakino · Sep 16, 2003, 05:12 AM

I just ordered and it says 4-6 weeks? They said same day shipping on site?

TC · Sep 16, 2003, 05:15 AM

The aluminum form does seem to suit the 15" even better than the 17". Looks very nice.

I'm sitting here with a 667 DVI and I think i'll be waiting until they have a G5 badge on them before upgrading. It'll be a long wait but it gives me time to save up.

TheIceMan · Sep 16, 2003, 05:18 AM

Check out the list of included softwares with the PowerBooks:

Mail, iChat, Safari, Sherlock, Address Book, QuickTime, iLife (includes iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD[4]), iSync, iCal, DVD Player, Classic environment, Acrobat Reader, Art Directors Toolkit, EarthLink TotalAccess 2003 (includes 30 days of free service), FAXstf, FileMaker Pro 6 Trial, GraphicConverter, Microsoft Office v. X Test Drive, OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, QuickBooks for Mac New User Edition, Developer Tools, and Apple Hardware Test

GraphicConverter!

TheIceMan · Sep 16, 2003, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by TC:
...I'm sitting here with a 667 DVI and I think i'll be waiting until they have a G5 badge on them before upgrading. It'll be a long wait but it gives me time to save up.

Exact same situation. Exact same thoughts.

TC · Sep 16, 2003, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
Exact same situation. Exact same thoughts.

Can I just ask, when you're in bed with your lady and reaching climax, do you announce loudly "The Ice Man cometh!!"

Darksider · Sep 16, 2003, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by chrisutley:
1.25GHz for $1999? Nice deal right there...

Not really, it's still a ripoff.

DigitalDNA · Sep 16, 2003, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by TheIceMan:

Man, NICE! I sure hope they got the fan and heat issues resolved.

Is this the 15"? Did they make it 0.1" thicker?

DigitalDNA · Sep 16, 2003, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by TheIceMan:

Man, NICE! I sure hope they got the fan and heat issues resolved.

Is this the 15"? Did they make it 0.1" thicker?

Spheric Harlot · Sep 16, 2003, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
Check out the list of included softwares with the PowerBooks:

GraphicConverter!

My 12" Powerbook came with GraphicConverter back in March. I think it's been part of the "pro" (PowerXXX) package for quite a while.

-s*

MacNStein · Sep 16, 2003, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by Darksider:
Not really, it's still a ripoff.

You were dropped on your head as a child, weren't you? Piss-off you hoser.

To all others. . .

I'm still gonna keep my original 12. IMO, the difference between 867MHz and 1GHz will be pretty much unnoticeable since the 12 still isn't sporting any L3. In fact, I'd lay money that in most instances, the PB I've got will be a bit quicker since it has a considerably faster HD. Though, the DVI interface will be nice for those who have been waiting for it (doesn't make much difference to me).

I'm really happy for you guys. I know you've been patient, and it looks like it paid off! Uncle Steve didn't leave you in the cold, just made you guys wait a bit.

Eug · 07:37 AM

I sure hope they got the fan and heat issues resolved.

Well, these include the MPC7457 chips, which should help. The previous were the higher power MPC7455 chips.

1 MB L3 cache is on chip.

Nope. There is no L3 Cache at all.

the difference between 867MHz and 1GHz will be pretty much unnoticeable since the 12 still isn't sporting any L3.

The 1 GHz will be MUCH faster. It has twice the L2 cache. My guess is that the 1 GHz 12" will be about 25% faster overall than the 867 12".

That said, I don't think it's enough to warrant an upgrade. I'm certainly not upgrading my 15" GigaBook.

It's interesting to note that the old 15" TiBook has a 61 W-hr battery. The new 15" AluBook has a 46 W-hr battery, which is actually even less than the 12"'s battery. Despite the old 15"'s 7455 processor, it's rated for 5 hrs, compared to the 4.5 hrs. of the new 15" AluBook.

xi_hyperon · Sep 16, 2003, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Nope. There is no L3 Cache at all.

Sidenote - I thought the original 17" had a L3 cache, but I don't see it on the new one. Will not having it hobble its performance?

Eug · Sep 16, 2003, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
Sidenote - I thought the original 17" had a L3 cache, but I don't see it on the new one. Will not having it hobble its performance?

Hmmm... crispinwilliams pointed out in the other thread that L3 cache IS mentioned for the 15" and 17", but only on the French and UK sites, It's not mentioned at all on the US and Australian sites. I have checked through those sites, and in fact that's true.

So either it's a typo on the French and UK sites or it was just left out on the US and Australian sites.

As for the 12", none of the sites have any mention of L3, so at least we know that the 12" doesn't include L3 - MPC7447.

xi_hyperon · Sep 16, 2003, 07:52 AM

Just to add fuel to the L3 speculation, here is what Maccentral is saying about the previous 15" and 17" models:

The 15-inch PowerBook has seen the most changes in the updates. The older models came equipped with an 867MHz or 1GHz G4 processor on the high-end; 1MB L3 cache; 256MB SDRAM, 512MB on the high-end; 40GB Ultra ATA/66, 60GB for the high-end; Combo Drive, SuperDrive for the high-end; ATI Mobility Radeon 9000; 32MB DDR video memory, 64MB for the high-end; Gigabit Ethernet; FireWire 400; AirPort Ready, AirPort was built-in on the high-end; Bluetooth optional; and DVI & S-Video out.

The 17-inch PowerBook was the most feature-rich notebook in Apple's line-up, which was equipped with a 1GHz PowerPC G4; 1MB L3 cache; 512MB DDR333 SDRAM; 60GB Ultra ATA/100; SuperDrive; NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go; 64MB DDR video memory; Gigabit Ethernet; FireWire 400; FireWire 800; AirPort Extreme built-in; Bluetooth built-in; and DVI & S-Video out.

I can't imagine they would take out the L3 if the previous models were sporting it.

Simon · Sep 16, 2003, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
As for the 12", none of the sites have any mention of L3, so at least we know that the 12" doesn't include L3 - MPC7447.

Why do you claim that no L3 = 7447?

The 7457 supports L3 but who says it requires it?

The L3 is off-die, so I guess the board can either have it or not. Just because it's missing doesn't mean we're not getting a 7457.

Unfortunately this Moto site on their PPCs doesn't mention anything about 7457 or 7447 yet...

Eug · Sep 16, 2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Why do you claim that no L3 = 7447?

The 7457 supports L3 but who says it requires it?

The L3 is off-die, so I guess the board can either have it or not. Just because it's missing doesn't mean we're not getting a 7457.

Unfortunately this Moto site on their PPCs doesn't mention anything about 7457 or 7447 yet...

I'm basing that statement on the fact that the previous 12" uses a 7445, not an L3-cacheless 7455. See here (Japanese).

Not that it makes any difference to the us though, since a 7457 without L3 is essentially the same thing as a 7447, with the same performance. The reason to use the 7447 is lower cost. Why bother with the more expensive 7457 if you're not going to use L3 anyway?

Simon · Sep 16, 2003, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Not that it makes any difference to the us though, since a 7457 without L3 is essentially the same thing with 7447, with the same performance. The reason to use the 7447 is lower cost. Why bother with the more expensive 7457 if you're not going to use L3 anyway?

Interesting, but where is that info from?
Moto's page says nothing on the two. We have some info on the 7457, but none on the 7447. Is the only difference between them that the 7447 supports no L3 at all and is thus cheaper?

Eug · Sep 16, 2003, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Is the only difference between them that the 7447 supports no L3 at all and is thus cheaper?

Pretty much yes, AFAIK, except that the 7447 probably has a different pin-out.

ie. IIRC, the 7447 is a direct drop-in pin-compatible replacement for the 7445, and similarly the 7457 is a direct drop-in replacement for the 7455. However, I don't think the 744x and the 745x are pin-compatible. Don't quote me on that though.

pbjudge · Sep 16, 2003, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Hmmm... crispinwilliams pointed out in the other thread that L3 cache IS mentioned for the 15" and 17", but only on the French and UK sites, It's not mentioned at all on the US and Australian sites. I have checked through those sites, and in fact that's true.

So either it's a typo on the French and UK sites or it was just left out on the US and Australian sites.

The site in Japan also mentions nothing about the L3...

Someone tell me it will be ok...

PoisonTooth · Sep 16, 2003, 09:43 AM

Huh. What an underwhelming update.

Eug · Sep 16, 2003, 09:48 AM

Well, it may not be a huge update for us recent buyers, but a great update for anyone with an older machine. Actually even over the last line it's pretty good. 25% more GHz in the 15" and 33% more GHz in the 17".

And the 15" looks great too:

coolmacdude · Sep 16, 2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by ptoomey3:

under the audio section it lists

"internal omnidirectional microphone"

but I see no metnion of it anywhere else. Is this new? Is this a misprint?

It lists the microphone as being under the left speaker grill. Have powerbooks always had this? this is my first powerbook so maybe I've never really looked before.

Not new. Tibooks have always had it.