[nagromme]

I've been told that above 25 ms response time, 3D games ghost badly when the action is fast, and things wash out when moving between light and dark areas. This is supposedly usually a problem with displays above 17".

Anyone know the response time of the 17' PowerBook? (Same as a 17" iMac maybe?)

TIA

[RayX]

The panel used in the 17-inch Powerbook (same as 17-inch iMac) is one of these with a modified backlight:

LM171W02

LP171W01

[nagromme]

Thanks. 25 ms--right on the border for gaming, supposedly.

How is it for games, in terms of ghosting?

[RayX]

25ms or lower is fine for gaming and DVDs.

Anything higher and you start to notice the ghosting very quickly.

[trublue]

Hey! I followed your links Ray X, but something doesn't add up in my mind.

http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com:8888/en...ew&idx=147

http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com:8888/en...ew&idx=126

Can someone please explain this to me:

Number of Colors
262,144 (6bit)

What is the use setting your laptop to "millions" of colors if the screen can only display 262, 144?

I am sure that this is a "dumb" post, but I would appreciate an explanation from someone please.

[ul1984]

what panel is used in the new 15 inch PB?

[nagromme]

I'm quite sure all Apple LCDs can handle more than 16-but color: because when you switch from 16-bit to 32-but in Preferences, you can see the (big) improvement!

But that does raise the question of whether those truly are the right specs.

FYI, over at insidemacgames.com where I posted, the consensus is that Apple displays, even the big ones, are pretty good as far as ghosting. The PowerBook should be fine for gaming. (It's subjective of course). The only Apple display I've heard ghosts a lot is the squarish 17" Studio Display (not the widescreen in the iMac/PBook).

[ul1984]

Originally posted by nagromme:
I'm quite sure all Apple LCDs can handle more than 16-but color: because when you switch from 16-bit to 32-but in Preferences, you can see the (big) improvement!

But that does raise the question of whether those truly are the right specs.

FYI, over at insidemacgames.com where I posted, the consensus is that Apple displays, even the big ones, are pretty good as far as ghosting. The PowerBook should be fine for gaming. (It's subjective of course). The only Apple display I've heard ghosts a lot is the squarish 17" Studio Display (not the widescreen in the iMac/PBook).

what they mean by 6bit, is 6bit per color channel, millions of colors is 8bit per channel.

there are 3 color channels red, green and blue, so:
6bit per channel (2^6)^3=262144 colors
8bit per channel (2^8)^3=16777216 colors

hope thats correct

[trublue]

Thanks so much for the reply...

That makes sense. So, in essence when we select "millions" of colors in the display preferences (8 bit), we are not limiting ourselves software wise (i.e. graphics drivers) but we are limited to what our screens can reproduce.

That is if our screens are only 6 bit, no matter what preference we have them set to (software/graphics card), then the maximum amount of colors that the SCREEN can display is 262144 (or 6 bit).

That is kind of a bummer, I guess.

I am correct then in making this conclusion?

Regardless, the new PB screens are amazing...but it makes me wonder what a true 8 bit screen looks like. I kind of feel "lied to" now also, having always thought that I was looking at true millions of colors when I made this selection.

Thanks again.

-Ian

[ul1984]

Originally posted by trublue:
Thanks so much for the reply...

That makes sense. So, in essence when we select "millions" of colors in the display preferences (8 bit), we are not limiting ourselves software wise (i.e. graphics drivers) but we are limited to what our screens can reproduce.

That is if our screens are only 6 bit, no matter what preference we have them set to (software/graphics card), then the maximum amount of colors that the SCREEN can display is 262144 (or 6 bit).

That is kind of a bummer, I guess.

I am correct then in making this conclusion?

Regardless, the new PB screens are amazing...but it makes me wonder what a true 8 bit screen looks like. I kind of feel "lied to" now also, having always thought that I was looking at true millions of colors when I made this selection.

Thanks again.

-Ian

As far as I know you're correct.

i think apples Cinema Displays are true millions of colors, and so are many if not all of Samsungs displays.

i feel kinda "lied to" as well, i didnt think apples laptops would have these kinda panels.

ive googled a bit and this is the only 1280x854 display i could found, so i guess the new AL15 PB also has a 6bit display...

im kinda having second thoughts about buying the new 15 inch PB now

[nagromme]

I thought a 16-bit display was 5 bits per channel + 1 extra, but regardless--Apple LCDs show more than 262,00 colors. Otherwise you couldn't see the improvement when you set to Millions--and you can.

[trublue]

nagromme wrote:

"I thought a 16-bit display was 5 bits per channel + 1 extra, but regardless--Apple LCDs show more than 262,00 colors. Otherwise you couldn't see the improvement when you set to Millions--and you can."
------------------------------

Well, I think that setting is just to control the driver/graphics card output for the system (in System Preferences -> Display).

You could adjust from thousands to millions in the System Prefs and SEE a big improvement (that you are talking about) if:

The thousands setting is 4 or 5 bit in the system preferences. This would correspond to the following color figures:

4 bit...(2^4)^3 = 4096 colors
5 bit...(2^5)^3 = 32768 colors

Switching the driver setting in your system preferences to "millions" allows you to process millions of colors perhaps, but doesn't gaurantee that your display will be able to render the data.

Therefore going from a 4 or 5 bit setting in the System Prefs (driver limited 4096 to 32768 colors) to millions (display limited 262, 144 colors...6 bit) you would still see that "improvement" is so clear to us all.

That doesn't mean that what you actually see is true millions of colors.

I would love for someone with knowledge in this area to guide us through to an understanding.

Otherwise, lets all try to logically deduce and figure this thing out.


-Ian

[trublue]

PowerBook COLOR Capabilities:

I thought it important enough to start it's own thread.

Let's please continue the color discussion there:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=178985

Let's continue to discuss latency here.

Thanks,

-Ian

[nagromme]

Now that you mention, I think I read years ago that 262,000 is the cut off where you can't see anything better than that. Changing from thousand to millions on a PowerBook (or CRT for that matter) is probably then changing from even fewer colors.