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jkit · Oct 11, 2003, 09:39 PM

Hi,
I recently got a new 12" pb (1 Ghz, 40 Gig HD, 256 megs RAM, combo-drive). I read on these forums that the fan almost never comes on. But mine seems to be on almost all the time. Even when I'm only idle-ing on iChat, and running nothing else. I was thinking that the reason for this may be that I have less RAM than other people have, and so my hard disk is doing a lot of swapping and so creating heat. Another reason I thought it might be the swapping is because my hard disk often has long periods of time where it makes buzzing and clicking noises once every ~10 seconds. Basically, I am wondering if the frequency at which I hear my hard disk and the frequency at which my fan turns on is abnormal, if I just need more RAM. Thanks for your help.

bih · Oct 11, 2003, 10:04 PM

Unfortunately, mine is on a lot as well. It's usually when the battery is charging though.

cSurfr · Oct 11, 2003, 10:41 PM

I have the same 1ghz 12", with 256mb ram, and my fan is almost NEVER on. The only time I hear my fan kick on is when i'm playing games. You might want to call apple about this.

cs

urban · Oct 12, 2003, 12:57 AM

my 12" pb is on all the time too..
it's almost always on when the batt is charging. but now im surfing and look at pictures and the fan just kicked in again after off for a sec.

videian28 · Oct 12, 2003, 06:34 AM

Mine is hardly ever on....at all

amoris · Oct 12, 2003, 09:24 AM

Mine is on most of the time if it's plugged in. The left bottom part also tends to get hot fast, though not as bad as my rev A TiBook.

When I run it from battery, these problems (fan, heat) go away. Probably has something to do with the CPU running at max speed when you plug it in.

Phat Bastard · Oct 12, 2003, 10:20 AM

Have you been using your computer on your bed, or some other surface that doesn't allow heat flow? I find soon after I start using my computer on my bed the fan comes on. When it's on my desk, the fan will come on only after like 3 hours of use.

Maybe you should think about where you are using your computer before you start talking about the hard drive speed, etc.

jkit · Oct 12, 2003, 07:32 PM

I've only been using my pb on my desk, so Phat Bastards explanation does not fit my situation. Today I tried a little experiment. I booted up my powerbook, but ran no apps. After 20, nothing had happened. So I opened up Safari, and nothing else. After 5 minutes of reading my email, (cat5, not wireless), the fan came on. Its been on now for about 10 minutes, and I've yet to start a second app. I've only been reading webpages. I opened up the process viewer, and looked at the CPU usage for about 2 minutes, with sampling set to every 1 second. For those two minutes, nothing ever went over 2%, and only 4 things every went over 1%, and never all 4 at the same time: Windows Manager, Safari, Process Viewer, configd. The fan has now been on for 20 minutes straight, and the only apps I'ved used are Safari and Process Viewer. Oh, by the way, I had my pb plugged in the whole time, though it was 100% charged.

HouseSold · Oct 12, 2003, 08:17 PM

You might run the hardware test on the DVD software disk that comes with your Powerbook. When you restart with the DVD inserted, hold down the option key while starting up. On my Powerbook, when it reached the logic test portion, the fans would speed cycle during the extended test. It may reveal a problem, should one exist.

My powerbook is off to Apple tomorrow, because it KP's (kernel panic) when I do anything extensive, untethered.(off power adapter-on battery only) AppleTech says it sounds like logic board and separate power management board problems.

two weeks of hell, so far.

schk · Oct 12, 2003, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by jkit:
I've only been using my pb on my desk, so Phat Bastards explanation does not fit my situation. Today I tried a little experiment. I booted up my powerbook, but ran no apps. After 20, nothing had happened. So I opened up Safari, and nothing else. After 5 minutes of reading my email, (cat5, not wireless), the fan came on. Its been on now for about 10 minutes, and I've yet to start a second app. I've only been reading webpages. I opened up the process viewer, and looked at the CPU usage for about 2 minutes, with sampling set to every 1 second. For those two minutes, nothing ever went over 2%, and only 4 things every went over 1%, and never all 4 at the same time: Windows Manager, Safari, Process Viewer, configd. The fan has now been on for 20 minutes straight, and the only apps I'ved used are Safari and Process Viewer. Oh, by the way, I had my pb plugged in the whole time, though it was 100% charged.

Is the fan running really loud or is it the really quiet speed? If it's the quiet speed, I doubt you have anything to worry about. If I'm just browing webpages only, it will periodically turn on and off, but it's never on the entire time I'm using the laptop.

uv23 · Dec 7, 2003, 12:01 PM

Let me ressurect this thread.

I have found that when I am running my 12" off of the battery and with the actual notebook screen, the fan does not come on. But I find that when I am plugged in, lid closed, and attached to my external LCD (this is my home config), the fan turns on relatively soon after I start working on the computer and does not stop until it goes to sleep.

Can those of you with external monitor setups please try this experiment and let me know if your behavior is the same?

Another issue. When my fan is running, it occasionally makes a "boing" sound. Not sure how else to describe it. Has anyone else heard this?

Regarding volume, it's generally pretty light. Though the other day I decided to try indexing my harddrive and it quickly approached vaccum cleaner levels so I stopped that process real quick.

Simon · 12:21 PM

Originally posted by uv23:
Can those of you with external monitor setups please try this experiment and let me know if your behavior is the same?

I work on the notebook screen with battery as well as on AC with an external screen. I have automatic set for the CPU energy saving (do this too! performance will not suffer, but heat is much lower). I get the impression that opened or closed screen operatiojn has no influence on the fan behavior. AC or batt is equal in terms of fan usage as long as the battery is charged. Charging the battery makes the machine heat up and thus the fan comes on.

I believe fan rpm and noise at a certain surrounding temperature relies solely on work load of HD and CPU, with the HD the being main contributor.

Get Temperature Monitor and check your internal temp. My fan comes on at about 48C (barely to be heard) and gets louder as the temp approaches 60C. To get it that hot you need to close the vents and get the disk to crunch hard. Normal use never gets me above 54C. At that temp the fan noise is still rather quiet.

Another issue. When my fan is running, it occasionally makes a "boing" sound. Not sure how else to describe it. Has anyone else heard this?

No. Don't have a "boing" here.

Regarding volume, it's generally pretty light. Though the other day I decided to try indexing my harddrive and it quickly approached vaccum cleaner levels so I stopped that process real quick.

I have never heard my PowerBook become a vacuum cleaner, but I had a MDD so I know what really loud fan noise is.

At what temp do you get a vacuum cleaner? If it's just loud and warm there's no problem (it would turn off if the temp was really getting dangerous). But if it's not that hot, not doing much and is roaring I would take it in. That's not the way it's supposed to be and certainly not the way others are.

queritor · Dec 7, 2003, 12:16 PM

I've found that setting the processor setting to 'Automatic' in the 'Energy Saver' preference panel solves the problem.

Obviously it won't help if you're maxing out the CPU, but once the machine becomes idle the CPU will throttle back and the fan will switch off.

There is no degradation in performance with this setting. The CPU will still be available at full speed when needed.

uv23 · Dec 7, 2003, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by queritor:
I've found that setting the processor setting to 'Automatic' in the 'Energy Saver' preference panel solves the problem.

Obviously it won't help if you're maxing out the CPU, but once the machine becomes idle the CPU will throttle back and the fan will switch off.

There is no degradation in performance with this setting. The CPU will still be available at full speed when needed.

Mine is and always has been set to autmoatic. The fan stays on when the lid is closed, regardless of activity. Perhaps the PB does not cool as well with the lid closed and thus reaches a point where the fan must run continuously to keep temps at a nominal level. I'm going to go download that temeperature app.

effgee · Dec 7, 2003, 12:27 PM

there's exactly three situations when the fan kicks in on my 12":[list=1][*]when I use the book on a soft surface that obstructs the airflow (blanket etc.)[*]when I play UT 2003[*]when I do real work and have a load of apps running - safari, firebird, dreamweaver, photoshop, bbedit ... (normally this powerbook is my "on-the-road-only" machine)[/list=1]other than in those situations mentioned above, i don't think the fan has kicked in once during the three weeks i've had this cute little sucker.

right now, i'm listening to kraftwerk with itunes, work on a site in bbedit and surf with safari - been running these apps for nearly two hours (power adapter, cpu set to highest, 768 mb ram), fan hasn't kicked in.

queritor · Dec 7, 2003, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by uv23:
Perhaps the PB does not cool as well with the lid closed and thus reaches a point where the fan must run continuously to keep temps at a nominal level. I'm going to go download that temeperature app.

That's probably true. I use my PB with a cinema display, but I always leave the lid open. I like to leave my email or iTunes displayed on the little screen.

uv23 · Dec 7, 2003, 12:29 PM

Ok I have temeperature monitor installed and the temp is floating between 47.3 and 48.3. I only have safari and mail open, the lid is closed, the PB is fully charged. As I said in my last post, it seems like it just gets to a point with the lid closed where it needs constant light cooling. I'm not too surprised as closing the lid makes it much like a sealed tower system, where fans are a necessity.

By the way, have any of you noticed that with the PB plugged in, when you go to the energy saver preference, your sleep pref for the screen on battery power shows as off, even though it's set to on?

uv23 · Dec 7, 2003, 10:46 PM

Been testing it on and off tonight and it looks like the fan comes on consistently around 45.8 degrees. This 12" is a hot little bugger, even if barely any apps are running.

Simon · Dec 8, 2003, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by uv23:
Ok I have temeperature monitor installed and the temp is floating between 47.3 and 48.3. I only have safari and mail open, the lid is closed, the PB is fully charged.

I would say that's rather normal. You're only doing light stuff and so the temp is medium. But at 47.3 my fan would not be running. If yours is and is making noise, I'd take it in.

As I said in my last post, it seems like it just gets to a point with the lid closed where it needs constant light cooling. I'm not too surprised as closing the lid makes it much like a sealed tower system, where fans are a necessity.

I don't think this is quite correct. I have tried using my Powerbook with opened and closed lid at low, medium and high use. I have noticed that the temperature actually did not change (as I had hoped) when opening the lid. The temp didn't reduce after I opened the lid as long as the HD/CPU usage didn't change.

This makes sense. The vents are on the front of the left side and on the back side. As long as they are free the only other cooling is the PowerBook's case (like a big heat sink). The bottom of the Book gets hottest, the back maybe also. I find it hard to believe that closing the lid makes a big difference: The keyboard is cool, the trackpad as well. They wouldn't convect heat to the lid.

Simon · Dec 8, 2003, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by uv23:
Been testing it on and off tonight and it looks like the fan comes on consistently around 45.8 degrees. This 12" is a hot little bugger, even if barely any apps are running.

Interesting. My fan doesn't come on till above 48.

Do you really believe 45.8 is "a hot little bugger"? I'd call that warm at best. A friend of mine here at the lab has a Compaq notebook with a 2.6GHz P4. The bottom of that thing gets so hot I wouldn't touch it anymore. Now that is a really hot (and big) bugger.

I find the 12" rather cool for its power-to-size ratio. But 10C less (no fan at all) would always be nice.

This morning when I came to work I unpacked my PowerBook and hooked it up to the screen/peripherals and it said it had 10C (it's very cold outside and I was walking around the campus a bit). That was a fine temp. However, it only took about half an hour to get back up to the 40s.

uv23 · Dec 8, 2003, 09:42 AM

When I woke mine from sleep this morning (with a hug and a glass of orange juice?) I think it was in the low 20s. The problem is that I haven't had a chance to do any extensive work on the road yet so I don't have a complete @home vs on the road comparison.

legacyb4 · Mar 1, 2004, 11:06 AM

I've noticed that my fan also kicks in around 46-48 or so; in particular, it gets active when the hard disk is active; no strange noises though.

Definitely more active than earlier 10.3. Too bad Silent Night doesn't do anything for the rev.Bs...

Cheers.

Originally posted by uv23:
Been testing it on and off tonight and it looks like the fan comes on consistently around 45.8 degrees. This 12" is a hot little bugger, even if barely any apps are running.

spiderbyte · Mar 10, 2004, 12:08 AM

I had a 12 inch Rev B Powerbook for about a week before I returned it because the fan noise annoyed me. I took a 15% hit on the restock fee but it was worth it to get out of the Rev B.

I then bought a new 867 Rev A 12 for under $1200. The Rev A is quiet. I like that. The fan only comes on when I am scanning film and using Photoshop. Even when running, the fan on the Rev A is much quieter than was the fan on the Rev B.

I feel no difference in the warmth of the palmrest between the 2 models. Both are pleasantly warm but neither was hot.

I am not going to download the latest update to the OS, because I don't want my fan running all the time like the Rev B I had. It works just the way that I want it to now, so I am not going to "fix" anything.

One more nice thing about the Rev A... no case warp. My Rev B warped within a few days.

////

\\\\ spiderbyte

OB1 · Mar 13, 2004, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by spiderbyte:
I had a 12 inch Rev B Powerbook for about a week before I returned it because the fan noise annoyed me. I took a 15% hit on the restock fee but it was worth it to get out of the Rev B.

I then bought a new 867 Rev A 12 for under $1200. The Rev A is quiet. I like that. The fan only comes on when I am scanning film and using Photoshop. Even when running, the fan on the Rev A is much quieter than was the fan on the Rev B.

I feel no difference in the warmth of the palmrest between the 2 models. Both are pleasantly warm but neither was hot.

I am not going to download the latest update to the OS, because I don't want my fan running all the time like the Rev B I had. It works just the way that I want it to now, so I am not going to "fix" anything.

One more nice thing about the Rev A... no case warp. My Rev B warped within a few days.

//// \\\\ spiderbyte

Which version of osx are you running on your new pb spiderbyte?

I have a rev A too, which i haven't upgraded past 10.2.6 for the same reasons as yourself. Having a quiet, stable machine is a priority for me.