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acadian · Oct 13, 2003, 05:28 PM

While the $20 panther upgrade may seem tempting to some, you should realise that you are in fact getting an "upgrade" disk only, not a full install. I'd rather pay full price to have a full installer, makes things much easier if you ever have to re isntall for example.

AssassyN · Oct 13, 2003, 05:53 PM

Shoot, I'm not that picky...I'll take the $20 version!

CJG86 · Oct 13, 2003, 05:54 PM

So does this mean that I can not do a clean install? Has anyone called uptodate and checked?

MacsGalor · Oct 13, 2003, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by acadian:
While the $20 panther upgrade may seem tempting to some, you should realise that you are in fact getting an "upgrade" disk only, not a full install. I'd rather pay full price to have a full installer, makes things much easier if you ever have to re isntall for example.

Wrong!! Try again, Apple has told me that the $20 up-to-date CD is the full thing. Research before you post. This has already been talked about here.

CJG86 · Oct 13, 2003, 06:01 PM

Well I just called apple to find out what disks I would be gettting and the person said that I would be getting upgrade disks and if I wanted to do a clean install then I would have to buy the retail version.

MacsGalor · Oct 13, 2003, 06:10 PM

Ok a few things the first being;
THIS IS IN THE WRONG FORUM, it should be in the OS X forum. Had you looked there you would have seen this thread;
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=181618
So as you can see some people at Apple are not sure but when you talk to the right ones you get the correct answer. just read this above linked thread you will see that the CD will allow you to do everything. Make sure that you look at Person Man's post

acadian · Oct 13, 2003, 06:12 PM

Wrong!! Try again, Apple has told me that the $20 up-to-date CD is the full thing. Research before you post. This has already been talked about here.

BUZZZZZZ....WRONG!!!!! You are indeed getting an upgrade, it was the same story for the Jaguar up to date program with the 2'nd gen Ti books. Reasearch before YOU post.

(....newbs....sheeesh...)

acadian · Oct 13, 2003, 06:14 PM

I'll eat my shorts if Apple sends you a full version...you heard it hear...

MacsGalor · Oct 13, 2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by acadian:
BUZZZZZZ....WRONG!!!!! You are indeed getting an upgrade, it was the same story for the Jaguar up to date program with the 2'nd gen Ti books. Reasearch before YOU post.

(....newbs....sheeesh...)

Just look are the link I posted. You just have to know how to use the CD.

acadian · Oct 13, 2003, 06:18 PM

ummm....yeah... of course it's a "full version" of the OS, but it's still an "upgrade", meaning you must have 10.2x already installed on your system. It's not a full retail install which will allow a formatted disk be used for installation.

MacsGalor · Oct 13, 2003, 06:30 PM

Hey either way I don't need to argue about this. I had a nice conversation with someone at Apple who said that you can format the disk. I was about to cancel my order for the $20 CD until I was able to confirm this. So you pay full price, I'll pay $20 and if I can't do it then I will simply upgrade. Then if in the future I must reformat then I will pay another $70 (gov discount) for the CD that will and I will still pay less than the average person. But I doubt that will ever happen, just think about it when you boot up on the CD it checks to make sure that you have 10.2.x or 10.3 if you already upgraded. Then once it completes this test it allows you to perform whatever tasks you need to do.

terrancew_hod · Oct 13, 2003, 06:32 PM

Jerry! Jerry!

Terrance

acadian · Oct 13, 2003, 06:39 PM

Fine then, I think people are getting confused with terminoligy here. An upgrade indeed allows you to perform a) a clean install or b) an archive and install. It does not allow you to install on any disk that does not have a previous qualifying OS installed. If you launch the disk utility from the install disk and format the destination disk, the installation option for that disk WILL NOT be available using the upgrade CD. Much the same way Adobe sells an upgrade for photoshop as well as a full version. The upgrade will indeed be a "full" version of the software but will only work with a previous version of Photoshop on your disk. That's why it's $700 cheaper. It's the same with Apple, they are sending you the cheaper upgrade disk rather than the more expensive full retail version. People are simply cofusing the terms "full version" and "full install".

MacsGalor · Oct 13, 2003, 06:50 PM

the only way that it would not work is id you took a hard drive that had nothing on it and wanted to install Panther to it. If you have a hard drive that has jaguar or panther installed once the installer sees that it will unlock the ability to erase the HD and then install the new one. This means that you have to install panther at the same time that you erased the drive. This really doesn't matter because when are you going to erase a HD and then not put an OS on it right away?

Chemmy · Oct 13, 2003, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by acadian:
It does not allow you to install on any disk that does not have a previous qualifying OS installed.

Crap, I won't be able to install Panther on the Powerbook I bought after October 8th that came without an OS.

acadian · Oct 13, 2003, 07:40 PM

There actually is a valid reason for someone to not want an upgrade, once again, the upgrade cd will not perform a full install of panther, it will only UPGRADE jaguar to panther. That's it. It will not allow you to install on a blank drive, from within the installer or otherwise. Period. The reason poeple prefer full versions is because, as with previous, upgrade installation of OSX, upgrades tend to become buggy over time. This was the case with the 10.1 to 10.2 upgrade as well.

CJG86 · Oct 13, 2003, 07:44 PM

So let me get this straight. Will I be able to do a clean install with the uptodate disk if I already have Jaguar on my Powerbook? I want to do a clean install becuase after a while I like to reinstall the OS and this meaning that I want to erase everything and install Panther. Can I do this?

MacsGalor · Oct 13, 2003, 07:57 PM

I tried to explain it as best I could but I guess you didn't understand so I will put it like this.
YOU CAN DO A FULL INSTALL OR A CLEAN INSTALL FROM THE UPGRADE CD. YOU CAN ERASE A HARD DRIVE AND INSTALL PANTHER JUST AS LONG AS THE INSTALLER CAN FIRST SEE A VERSION OF JAGUAR. YOU CANNOT TAKE A BLANK EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE AND INSTALL PANTHER WITHOUT FIRST INSTALLING JAGUAR. Again as long as when you start the installer it can see a version of Jaguar you can erase the HD then do a full install.

:dragonflypro: · Oct 13, 2003, 08:01 PM

Having spent 4 years managing a Apple Reseller, including the deployment of 10/10.1, I have never seen an update CD that required anything to be installed.

The Retail, NFR, EDU and Up-To-Date CDs have always been identical short of the screening on the CD itself.

OK, yeah, it is possible that would change... but I kind of doubt it.

Apple just qualifies that you are eligible fro up to date, they don't have a special build or CD for it.....never have.

Toby

Rain · Oct 13, 2003, 08:04 PM

Okay I'm confuse.

How does this affect me if I already have Jaguar on my PB? Wouldn't the end result still be 100% Panther? Don't everyone who's getting the upgrade for $20 already HAVE Jaguar? so what's the big deal? Why the need for a full disk if you already have Jaguar and can just simply upgrade it to Panther? Why should I pay more for the full version if I don't really need to when the $20 upgrade will suffice?

vinster · Oct 13, 2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by CJG86:
So let me get this straight. Will I be able to do a clean install with the uptodate disk if I already have Jaguar on my Powerbook? I want to do a clean install becuase after a while I like to reinstall the OS and this meaning that I want to erase everything and install Panther. Can I do this?

Straightforward answer is no. But there was a way to disable the system check in Jaguar (or was it the 10.1 upgrade CD) by making a disk image, viewing the contents of the installer app, removing a certain file and then burning it back to CD.

MacsGalor · Oct 13, 2003, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by vinster:
Straightforward answer is no.

This is incorrect. Read the above posts and go to the link then read those. As a stock holder if you want to spend more money than you have to, go ahead. I only want to make sure people have the right information so they can make a good choice for themselves. A lot of people are not even going to care if they can wipe the drive before they install, they will just upgrade and give it no second thought. But for those that do care the answer is YES YOU CAN. As I stated before this belongs in the OS X forum, so someone please lock this thread.

acadian · Oct 13, 2003, 10:37 PM

Having spent 4 years managing a Apple Reseller, including the deployment of 10/10.1, I have never seen an update CD that required anything to be installed.

The Retail, NFR, EDU and Up-To-Date CDs have always been identical short of the screening on the CD itself.

OK, yeah, it is possible that would change... but I kind of doubt it.

Apple just qualifies that you are eligible fro up to date, they don't have a special build or CD for it.....never have.

Toby

Well, I have, and can prove it. I still have the jaguar upgrade I received through the up to date program when I purchased my 667 gigabit. In no uncertain terms it requires a previous version of OSX in oprder to upgrade to Jag, no if's and's or but's about it. A "clean install" simply means that it replaces the existing system folder with a new one, as opposed to an archive and install, but it still requires that a version of OSX be present on the target disk. Claiming that Apple has never required anything to be present on a drive prior to installing is misleading. if that's the case, then why has Apple ever bothered to release "upgrade" cd's as well as "full install's"? Not just for OSX but for other apps as well (final cut, web objects etc...) That is after all exactly what the term "update" refers to. When you walk into an apple reseller and pay the $200 or whatever for an OS, you are purchasing the ability to install OSX for the first time, meaning it is not "updating" anything. It's not a difficult concept to grasp and fairly common knowledge.

RodriCO2000 · Oct 13, 2003, 11:19 PM

You people are all confusing yourselves, the upgrade CD's are FULL INSTALL disks that run some "file" when you boot from the disk that checks to make sure that you have 10.2 installed. ONCE IT HAS DONE THE INITIAL CHECK, and installer proceeds, YOU CAN ERASE and or PARTITION the target disk, it has ALREADY verified that you have 10.2 installed....... AGAIN YOU CAN install 10.3 on a formatted, clean drive, as long as you used the disk utility within the installer program AFTER it verifies that you have 10.2 on that same disk...

If you really are THAT worried then wait to get your Upgrade CD's and then look back at the forums and somoene will have posted directions to make these CD's FULL INSTALL disks, meaning the file that checks that you have 10.2 will have been removed....

This is a non-issue people.. you are all arguing about complete non-sense. either way come Oct 24 you WILL be able to install 10.3 isnt that all that matters????

Sheesh........

BTW...... GO RED SOX........

Chemmy · Oct 14, 2003, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by RodriCO2000:
BTW...... GO RED SOX........

"And the Lord said, 'Go Sox'" - John 3:16

MacsGalor · Oct 14, 2003, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by RodriCO2000:
You people are all confusing yourselves, the upgrade CD's are FULL INSTALL disks that run some "file" when you boot from the disk that checks to make sure that you have 10.2 installed. ONCE IT HAS DONE THE INITIAL CHECK, and installer proceeds, YOU CAN ERASE and or PARTITION the target disk, it has ALREADY verified that you have 10.2 installed....... AGAIN YOU CAN install 10.3 on a formatted, clean drive, as long as you used the disk utility within the installer program AFTER it verifies that you have 10.2 on that same disk...

Exactly what I was saying, thank you!

alfric · Oct 14, 2003, 05:12 AM

I dont see what all the fuss is about

- You should get the 'free' 20$ Update now and save the rest of the money for 4. October 2004, when OSX 10.4 Cougar will be released!