[IronPen]

While I'm very happy with my machine, I am quite confused and a bit upset about Apple's product deployment. WTF??!!! I mean, they release the new and improved PBs with aluminum case in 12" and 17" sizes, yet they leave the 15" behind. You'd think Apple would make several features available in the NEW PBs...but no!!! Not until Rev B do you get more L2 cache, firewire 800 and USB 2, 256M on board, faster bus (167MHz), am I missing anything? It just seems to me that Apple is jumping into these product rollouts and touting the new design and features and they really aren't offering customers as much as they could be. Am I alone here? When the G5 PB comes out, I'm going to hold off for the second revision because that seems to be when the REAL upgrade comes out.

And now they release G4 iBooks? I'm all for updating the iBooks, but I don't think they've made a good decision with the 12" iBook. You have to get the larger 14" iBook to get the faster G4 and other features. And talk about CONFUSING your customers. Just when they seemed to be heading in the right direction they do this. And the thing that upsets me the most is that I basically have an iBook right now in a PB case with the new iBook specs and I paid several hundred more than the cost of the new iBook. Before I buy another machine from Apple I'm going to think do a lot more thinking and NOT get a Rev A.

[shabbasuraj]

I have to agree...

the 12" iB is feature packed and will hurt 12" PB sales in the end...

and the price of the G4 iB's are so aggressive...especially the 12" iB...

$500 USD does not warrant one to 'upgrade' for the features found in the 12" PB....

lates...

[Tariq-1]

I know you are ranting because you feel somehow cheated BUT keep in mind that if you had bought your rev A 12" Powerbook when they came out about 8 months ago(when NO G4 iBook was available), you have enjoyed the use of it for the few hundred $'s you mention. And, you still have a better 12" than the new ibook...better keyboard, dual monitor support and possibly a built in Superdrive. It's only natural that the G3 would be phased out. Actually, we Apple users have become spoiled compared to the rest of the PC industry as Apples Product life Cycles are much longer traditionally. Every few years, Apple makes a transition and this just so happens to be one of those years with the G5.
What consumer would want a G3 when they know a G5 exists. With at least a G4, the consumer feels much better Psychologically with their purchase. iBook sells had been decreasing. Sticking a G4 in the iBook should help. This probably means we will see Dual G4 Powerbooks OR G5 Powerbooks within the next 6 months or so. I wonder how that will make everyone feel who just bought an AL Powerbook? Chasing Technology is a loosing proposition. The only real question that matters is will the computer still do the job you purchased it to do. Chances are, it will regardless of what the next best thing to come out is.

Tariq

Originally posted by IronPen:
While I'm very happy with my machine, I am quite confused and a bit upset about Apple's product deployment. WTF??!!! I mean, they release the new and improved PBs with aluminum case in 12" and 17" sizes, yet they leave the 15" behind. You'd think Apple would make several features available in the NEW PBs...but no!!! Not until Rev B do you get more L2 cache, firewire 800 and USB 2, 256M on board, faster bus (167MHz), am I missing anything? It just seems to me that Apple is jumping into these product rollouts and touting the new design and features and they really aren't offering customers as much as they could be. Am I alone here? When the G5 PB comes out, I'm going to hold off for the second revision because that seems to be when the REAL upgrade comes out.

And now they release G4 iBooks? I'm all for updating the iBooks, but I don't think they've made a good decision with the 12" iBook. You have to get the larger 14" iBook to get the faster G4 and other features. And talk about CONFUSING your customers. Just when they seemed to be heading in the right direction they do this. And the thing that upsets me the most is that I basically have an iBook right now in a PB case with the new iBook specs and I paid several hundred more than the cost of the new iBook. Before I buy another machine from Apple I'm going to think do a lot more thinking and NOT get a Rev A.

[Lertsiri]

Lertsiri Boonmee here! Don't think it as being cheated....ask yourself, if the book you have or desktop you have, serves your purpose. If yes, then be happy with your purchase and live with it until it is reasonable to purchase new equiptment. Thats how I hung onto my Pismo G3 500. I wanted to upgrade to the PB 17" 1 gig Rev A when Final Cut was moving from version 1.02 all the way to 3...but then 4 came out and wham....justification on PB G4 1 gig 17 inch widescreen!

Till now...happy as ever....never looked back...except to the good old times of editing news footage in the jungles of Burma/Thailand during a shooting outbreak, or that time when I used my powerbook G3 Pismo to edit cuts for broadcasting to 158 countries via a satelite transmission out of Thailand's TGN networks. I surprised a bunch of Avid Users and converted alot to Final Cut actually.

SO back to the point...be happy and make the best out of your investment...think of it as your sword. Take care of it, and it will take care of you....

(Oh my short film is going to be shown in NYC at the Village East Cinema theater number 6 on Nov 15th Saturday 2003 at 4:10 PM. Tickets are sold at www.nyfilmvideo.com and the title of my work, is THE OTHER HALF. Sold my car to do that short thesis film and shot on 16 mm edited with Powerbook G3 and G4 using Final Cut Pro. Made my own music as well Trailer for the movie is at Trailers for THE OTHER HALF and Demo Reel while my homepage with pics and biography is at: my homepage

[NYCFarmboy]

Don't feel to badly..

the ibooks have really really really cheap plastic on them. They look like a cheap toy in my opinion.

the 12" powerbooks are a work of art. Stunning to look at and to use. I have an old 12" 500 mhz white ibook which has a silver inside around the keyboard so it looks nicer than the newer ibooks in my opinion.

Now...when the G5 12" powerbooks come out in January.... then you can feel upset.

[Eug Wanker]

Summary:

I don't think a company should sell anything new after I buy my stuff, because it makes me mad.

Don't sweat it man. I paid a LOT more for my TiBook 1 GHz SD than you did for your 12" PB. And now even the new 15" AluBook is much cheaper than what I paid for it. C'est la vie.

[Scooterboy]

Hey, you don't even want to know what I paid for my Newton!

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
I have to agree...

the 12" iB is feature packed and will hurt 12" PB sales in the end...

and the price of the G4 iB's are so aggressive...especially the 12" iB...

$500 USD does not warrant one to 'upgrade' for the features found in the 12" PB....

lates...

THIS IS A NEW ONE!!

Actual complaints that Apple offers a product of substantial value. Many of the 12" RevA buyers have owned for 8-9 months now, which is eons in computer time (not always Mac time). Did Apple spoil you guys with the two year G4 500mhz drought? Welcome to the technology revolution. Christ!

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by Tariq:
And, you still have a better 12" than the new ibook...better keyboard, dual monitor support and possibly a built in Superdrive.
Tariq

The 12" has always been a super-duper iBook. Now its just a super iBook. Its not worth the extra $500 for a better keyboard -- and most people know the iBooks can be easily hacked to enable the crippled dual-display supprt (damn you Apple!). It doesn't even have a *better* 12" display. Basically - the 12" Powerbook was a nifty novelty for 2003 -- but completely unnecessary now.

iBook - little computers for little people
Powerbooks - big computers for big people.
12" Powerbook - little computer for confused people with $500 to burn?

NOTE: I've changed my opinion on this. On further thought - seems $500 is worth it for 25% MHZ improvement, double the Cache, Bluetooth, larger HD, build quality, keyboard, and looks. If not to you, go for the iBook.

[Tariq-1]

There is no evidence as of yet that the new G4 iBook with a different Video card can or will be hacked to take advantage of dual monitor support. Nice if it is though. Actually, come to think of it, I think this 9200 Radeon has NOT been used in a PowerBook before. We had the 9000 in the last Ti. The video hack for the last iBook and emac was on a 7500 I believe which was used in a PowerBook at one time(possibly making it easier to hack-just stick in the code for the PB with Dual display capabilities). I hope I'm wrong but Apple may have gotten wiser from the first Hack. Dual Monitor Support is a Neccesity for most who would even consider buying an iBook instead of a PB.

Tariq

Originally posted by elvis2000:
The 12" has always been a super-duper iBook. Now its just a super iBook. Its not worth the extra $500 for a better keyboard -- and most people know the iBooks can be easily hacked to enable the crippled dual-display supprt (damn you Apple!). It doesn't even have a *better* 12" display. Basically - the 12" Powerbook was a nifty novelty for 2003 -- but completely unnecessary now.

iBook - little computers for little people
Powerbooks - big computers for big people.
12" Powerbook - little computer for confused people with $500 to burn?

[shabbasuraj]

i think this can be remedied if Apple drops the prices on the entire PB line...

or offer new incentive programs...

BTW when are these new incentives programs coming? any predictions anyone?

lates...

[Fellow2000]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
The 12" has always been a super-duper iBook. Now its just a super iBook. Its not worth the extra $500 for a better keyboard -- and most people know the iBooks can be easily hacked to enable the crippled dual-display supprt (damn you Apple!). It doesn't even have a *better* 12" display. Basically - the 12" Powerbook was a nifty novelty for 2003 -- but completely unnecessary now.

iBook - little computers for little people
Powerbooks - big computers for big people.
12" Powerbook - little computer for confused people with $500 to burn?

I could not disagree with you more. I own a 12 inch rev B, and even now, I would still buy it. It just feels like a more solid computer. I find small stuff like keyboard and looks important, one reason I went with apple in the first place. Granted I did not spend 500 extra because I got it on the educational discount, but I am pretty sure that I would anyway. Even the small performance features are nice, but it is the looks and feel that win my vote.

[khufuu]

Some thoughts...

I think it's called, get a consumer machine out there before Xmas so that we can cash in; especially since we missed the back-to-school rush. Our 4th quarter will look much better this way.

I think it's called, let IBM stop producing the G3's so they can focus on putting G5's into the next pb line.

I think it's called, most of the software being written today really needs a G4 to run like it should and we can't keep holding our developer's back.

[Anemia]

as a recent 12" Pbook purchaser, I would also take my powerbook over the new ibook. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the fact that the powerbook still has double the L2 cache that the new ibook does AND is 200mhz faster. (forget that 14" abomination, we're talking 12" here).

now if you could get the 1ghz g4 in the 12" ibook, i would seriously be doubting my impatience in purchasing a powerbook, but you cant, and there's no way i would own a 14" behemoth. I wouldn't have even bought this powerbook if it wasn't 1ghz or better, so overall, while I am surprised, it's my girlfriend who bought a 900mhz G3 ibook about a month ago who's feeling burned.

[James L]

It's called progress....get over it!

[phantomo]

I am happy with my 9 days old PB 12" SuperDrive but I better stop reading this thread that get me thinking and thinking and thinking....

The PowerBook does what I want and more. It sure cost more than the iBook value wise but there are more then specs comparison. i.e. Al enclosure, better keyboard, video spanning and such. Despite what I have just typed, I still believe Apple should have giving more features of 15” or 17” to the 12" in the first place (i.e. memory bus, Gigabit Ethernet) which cost pennies to make to further differentiate from iBook.

Just my 2 cents.

[Grrr]

Just for the record, The new 12" PowerBooks don't have FireWire 800.

[IronPen]

Tariq and most of you,

Thanks for your constructive feedback. I was so afraid this would turn into a "flaming" thread, but it has generated a lot of discussion and thoughts from other PB and iBook owners. I used to own the Rev A iBook 500. I loved that machine, but it did upset me that Apple didn't increase the bus until the Rev B. In a way, the new 12"PB upgrade and the iBook G4s make me feel like I got hosed a bit. But then, really I didn't. My whole argument for buying the 12" PB was that with EDU discount, minus the iPod rebate (sold on eBay) and selling my iBook and all accessories, I only paid a little more than $400 for the upgrade...not bad at all. So I'm not real upset. As you all said, I have asked myself if the machine does what I want it to do, and it does...and it does it very well.

But I do think that when Apple changes form factors and sells their new products as being the best of the breed, they should do as much as possible to include new features. Not that I would use them, but DVI, USB 2, and 256MB or RAM on the board should have been on the 12" Rev A, but what's done is done. If Rev B had been configured with FW 800 and a 167MHZ bus and Gigabit Ethernet, I would be rather upset.

But I do think Apple is confusing customers. $500 more for the aluminum form factor (excluding the EDU discounts) and keyboard, and extra 256K L2 cache is a poor reason not to get an iBook, IMO. It took me a lot of time and research to decide to get the 12" PB b/c of the confusion of the G3 vs. G4 at equivalent MHZ and other factors. To those of use who are big Mac geeks, it might be easier, but to the layman, I think they see it as a matter of looks/size more than anything. Afterall, Apple seems to think bigger should be better. If you get the smaller notebook you get less power, which I totally disagree with in the iBooks and PBs. Honestly, I don't think there is a problem with a heat issue. Rev B owners claim the processor runs cooler.