[Mallrat]

Went to apple store saw the ibook.

It is the same as the ibook G3 except it's a white color with a touch of grey... the keyboard keys are a bit stifter and gray and it has a slot loading drive.

Other than that everything else is the same.

I'm not talking about the processor, I"m just saying, this is the easiest update apple ever did.

They upgraded a processor, but kept the exact same design. A great one, but it is funny.

Still a great machine, but after seeing it I was like, wait, I already have this computer.

Jsut a funny feeling.

[TheIceMan]

I feel the same way. Tonight during "Night of Panther", I spent almost 3 hours working on and just gazing at the new G4 iBook. It is so "cute". But like you said, compared to the "old" iBook G3 design, it is practically the exact same, except for the keyboard, slot-loading, and the grey color. Physically, it's identical.

Looks nice, but Apple didn't do much to enhance it. My impressions are based on the 800 MHz, 256RAM G4 iBook running Panther:

1.Launching applications after several have been open slowed the iBook down to a crawl. I had iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Keynote, and iTunes opened. I then launched Final Cut Express, PhotoShop and those two just crawled. The icon in the dock kept bouncing.

2.Although the outer casing is still nice, sleek, and clean. Plastic is plastic. The iBook I worked on, had a slight outward curve right at the "iBook G4" name under the screen. Like the plastic was coming off.

3.The screen on the new iBook does seem better than the old iBook, but it was hard to tell because it was so bright inside the Apple stores. And under these bright lights, the screen appeared "washed out." In fairness, the 12" screen didn't look that good either. Laptop-wise, only the 15" PB screens looked great. Hands down, the 15" screen is still the king of Apple's laptop display.

4.The keyboard is a definite improvement. They are much more solid and firm. The old "squishy keys" are gone and these are much better. Kudos to Apple for getting rid of the old keyboard. That said, the keyboards on the PowerBooks are still the best.

I came in tonight wanting to really like the new G4 iBooks. But there were some things which for me were too important to ignore.

These were the factors I considered when comparing Apple laptop models:

1.Screen quality. #1-15" PowerBook

2.Outer casing. Gotta go with Aluminum, its sleeker and more solid. On the iBook, I didn't like how the plastic seemed to "come off" on the inside plastic strip, right underneath the screen.

3.Keyboard. PowerBook wins. Fantastic feel and response.

4.Fan noise Tie. I didn't hear the fan noise at all while testing the iBook and at an earlier time, testing the 15" PowerBook.

5.Heat issue. Tie. Nothing dramatic, the most it ever got was "mildly warm" never hot.

6.Battery life. Didn't get to test this, but from what I've read, the iBook should win this category.

7.Price. iBook is cheaper, of course. In fact, of the models and price configurations that I did, the 15" PowerBook was about $700 more than the iBook.

So I guess it comes down to what we each want. For me, the winning votes (while trying to disregard the processor speed and all that other stuff) against the 12" G4 iBook and in favor of the 15" PB are: better screen, better keyboard, aluminum casing. I didn't choose the 12" PB because the screen was not up to par with the 15" PB.

[Edit:] What "killed" it for me was that the 12" G4 iBook maxed out at 800MHz and 640RAM. If only Apple had moved that up to 1GHz and 768RAM. But then again, they would want you to "upgrade" to the 12" PowerBook line.

[cobra27]

Originally posted by TheIceMan:


1.Launching applications after several have been open slowed the iBook down to a crawl. I had iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Keynote, and iTunes opened. I then launched Final Cut Express, PhotoShop and those two just crawled. The icon in the dock kept bouncing.

Could it be because the unit only has 128MB of RAM? The applestore might have removed the other 128MB from the user accessible slot, just as they did the battery. Anyway, I think even with 256MB, what you were attempting might be a bit too ambitious .

I am in the same boat, was ALMOST buying the 12" PB when the ibook G4 popped out of nowhere. Now I am inclined towards the ibook, just for the saving.

IceMan, is the case for the ibook still like the previous version: easily scretched and fingerprint magnet?

I am telling myself that the ibook G4 is actually the 12" Rev A Powerbook with plastic case.....not bad when I think of it this way.

[Peter]

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
2.Although the outer casing is still nice, sleek, and clean. Plastic is plastic. The iBook I worked on, had a slight outward curve right at the "iBook G4" name under the screen. Like the plastic was coming off.

Yes but Plastic is both cheap and very durable - its the ideal shell material for being shoved in rucksacks etc.

[amazing]

Plus, I presume that everyone's heard about the corrosion and pitting that's turning up on the aluminum palmrests?

Also, even with 256 MB RAM, opening all the apps listed above would give you massive pageouts--even a G5 would slow down (though not as much). Adequate RAM is the key to Jaguar, and presumably Panther is the same. There used to be reports that 384 MB was the minimum, that you didn't see much in the way of speed improvements above that--this doesn't apply to the G5, natch. However, you need more RAM than that if you're planning on keeping loads of apps open, especially Photoshop.

In my mind, the lower quality LCD on the iBook is its only major drawback--easily solved with an external monitor on the desk. Though I'd have bought it by now if it had 1 Ghz -- perhaps rev b?

[Mallrat]

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
I feel the same way. Tonight during "Night of Panther", I spent almost 3 hours working on and just gazing at the new G4 iBook. It is so "cute". But like you said, compared to the "old" iBook G3 design, it is practically the exact same, except for the keyboard, slot-loading, and the grey color. Physically, it's identical.

Looks nice, but Apple didn't do much to enhance it. My impressions are based on the 800 MHz, 256RAM G4 iBook running Panther:

1.Launching applications after several have been open slowed the iBook down to a crawl. I had iPhoto, Mail, Safari, Keynote, and iTunes opened. I then launched Final Cut Express, PhotoShop and those two just crawled. The icon in the dock kept bouncing.

2.Although the outer casing is still nice, sleek, and clean. Plastic is plastic. The iBook I worked on, had a slight outward curve right at the "iBook G4" name under the screen. Like the plastic was coming off.

3.The screen on the new iBook does seem better than the old iBook, but it was hard to tell because it was so bright inside the Apple stores. And under these bright lights, the screen appeared "washed out." In fairness, the 12" screen didn't look that good either. Laptop-wise, only the 15" PB screens looked great. Hands down, the 15" screen is still the king of Apple's laptop display.

4.The keyboard is a definite improvement. They are much more solid and firm. The old "squishy keys" are gone and these are much better. Kudos to Apple for getting rid of the old keyboard. That said, the keyboards on the PowerBooks are still the best.

I came in tonight wanting to really like the new G4 iBooks. But there were some things which for me were too important to ignore.

These were the factors I considered when comparing Apple laptop models:

1.Screen quality. #1-15" PowerBook

2.Outer casing. Gotta go with Aluminum, its sleeker and more solid. On the iBook, I didn't like how the plastic seemed to "come off" on the inside plastic strip, right underneath the screen.

3.Keyboard. PowerBook wins. Fantastic feel and response.

4.Fan noise Tie. I didn't hear the fan noise at all while testing the iBook and at an earlier time, testing the 15" PowerBook.

5.Heat issue. Tie. Nothing dramatic, the most it ever got was "mildly warm" never hot.

6.Battery life. Didn't get to test this, but from what I've read, the iBook should win this category.

7.Price. iBook is cheaper, of course. In fact, of the models and price configurations that I did, the 15" PowerBook was about $700 more than the iBook.

So I guess it comes down to what we each want. For me, the winning votes (while trying to disregard the processor speed and all that other stuff) against the 12" G4 iBook and in favor of the 15" PB are: better screen, better keyboard, aluminum casing. I didn't choose the 12" PB because the screen was not up to par with the 15" PB.

[Edit:] What "killed" it for me was that the 12" G4 iBook maxed out at 800MHz and 640RAM. If only Apple had moved that up to 1GHz and 768RAM. But then again, they would want you to "upgrade" to the 12" PowerBook line.

Yes, the powerbook are better machines in most all respects.

But I for once, like the plastic idea.

to me a computer is a tool, not an accessory to my office.

the ibook is for the "students' and the powerbook is for the professional.

Well I've been to the apple store many times and it seems that everytime I hear someone talking to one of the apple employees and having no idea what computer even do, they sure enough walk away with a powerbook.

Not trying to start a flame war. It's just funny to me, that the ones who can afford a 3000 laptop are the ones who will never even understand what it can do.

I would guess that the IQ of the ibook community would be higher than the powerbook.

Come on, I can't be alone. You look at the ibook, you think they are cool machines, but hell, if you could, why not get a powerbook?

The truth is I enjoy owning the ibook. I think it's a cool little guy. the little creative brother to the big brother.

And plastic to me is what it should be made of.

What's next for powerbooks? The casing is going to be made of diamonds?

iBook? Who doesn't

[PeterKG]

Originally posted by amazing:
Plus, I presume that everyone's heard about the corrosion and pitting that's turning up on the aluminum palmrests?

No I have not heard about this because it is not happening, except for maybe a few people with excessive sweating problems. Why make such a staement that is pure BS?

[TheIceMan]

PeterClark2002 & rushmore:

Agreed. I also liked the outside plastic of the iBook. What I didn't like was "how the plastic seemed to "come off" on the inside plastic strip, right underneath the screen." The outer plastic casing was fine. In fact it looked nice. It was the inside, around the screen, esp. right underneath it where there's a plastic strip. It is this strip that seems "cheap" because it wasn't a tight fit. I'm sorry, it's hard to explain without pics. Also, it may just be the specific unit that I was examining, perhaps other G4 iBooks do not have this issue.

I think if Apple updates the iBook line come MacWorld Jan. 2004 with 1GHz processors and 768RAM max., then I'll be much more persuaded.

[damosan]

Originally posted by Mallrat:
I'm not talking about the processor, I"m just saying, this is the easiest update apple ever did.

They upgraded a processor, but kept the exact same design. A great one, but it is funny.

I wonder if the G4 iBooks are nothing more than a 12" Powerbook board in a white case...if that's the case it was even easier than you think.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by damosan:
I wonder if the G4 iBooks are nothing more than a 12" Powerbook board in a white case...if that's the case it was even easier than you think.

I somehow doubt that's the case, at least with the 14-incher....

[mrgaskell]

The iBook has a 133mhz bus, DDR 2700 RAM, and according to the Apple Genius, the EXACT same screen as the 12" PB. The innards are different as the RAM and Airport Extreme locations are different.

Just my .02. I have a older 15" TiBook and was going to upgrade to the 12" PB, but the iBook looks like a better buy to me.

[fraeone]

Just to correct a point there: the ibook has PC2100 RAM (2x133mhz=266=PC2100)

Also, you're right that the new ibook is basically a 12" PB, but it's a REV A 12" PB. It doesn't have the DVI out of the new ones, it doesn't have the doubled cache of the new ones, it doesn't have the higher memory limit of the new ones, and it doesn't have the 1ghz processor of the new ones. It does however match the 867mhz PBs specs almost exactly, (right down to the 128M RAM soldered to the MB)

That being said, the RevBs are much better than the RevAs and as tempting as the low price of the new ibook is, the 12" PB is still a lot more computer.

fraeone

[cobra27]

Originally posted by fraeone:
Just to correct a point there: the ibook has PC2100 RAM (2x133mhz=266=PC2100)

Also, you're right that the new ibook is basically a 12" PB, but it's a REV A 12" PB. It doesn't have the DVI out of the new ones, it doesn't have the doubled cache of the new ones, it doesn't have the higher memory limit of the new ones, and it doesn't have the 1ghz processor of the new ones. It does however match the 867mhz PBs specs almost exactly, (right down to the 128M RAM soldered to the MB)

I absolutely agree with you here. The iBook G4 is basically a Rev A 12" Powerbook.

That being said, the RevBs are much better than the RevAs and as tempting as the low price of the new ibook is, the 12" PB is still a lot more computer.

But is it worth the $500 difference? And don't forget that the Rev B was just introduced about a month ago. So think of it as Apple selling the previous generation's Powerbook at $500 less....and without the heat problem, plus longer battery life. Not bad, I would say.

[Simon]

While we're nitpicking here, I'd like to point out that the 12" iBook G4 also has a different GPU than both rev a and b 12" PowerBooks. The GPU is soldered to the MB making it a non-removable/non-replaceable component.

This is just to avoid that some freak comes along and claims the old rev a PB boards went right into the new 12" G4 iBook cases. It's not quite that simple even though the two MBs are very similar.

[biscuit]

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
Although the outer casing is still nice, sleek, and clean. Plastic is plastic. The iBook I worked on, had a slight outward curve right at the "iBook G4" name under the screen. Like the plastic was coming off.

I have the exact same thing on my 600 MHz 12" iBook. I only noticed it when the machine came back after a repair so I thought they'd messed up something. Maybe it was there all along. I've never wanted to risk forcing it back into place though, in case the screen explodes or something...

biscuit