Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Tomster · Nov 3, 2003, 01:14 PM

Just wanted to mention a new issue concerning Panther, the new 15" Powerbooks, and RAM. This was confirmed by others at the Apple Discussion forums.

In a nutshell, some full spec ram will not work in the 15" Powerbooks and Panther. I pulled a couple of 512mb sticks out of a 17" Powerbook and transplanted them into a new 15". Everything was perfect under 10.2.8. I installed Jaguar via firewire target mode. Not a good idea. Constant kernel panics.

Panther refused to install with that ram. It would crash constantly in the middle of the process. The same ram in a 17" powerbook works fine.

It's pretty much a known issue at OWC where I purchased the ram. Replacement policy there is good - many others at the apple discussion boards have received replacement ram. More info to follow.

Tomster · Nov 3, 2003, 02:48 PM

Just a quick follow up. After discovering Panther tightened up the 15" Powerbook ram requirements, we've managed to troubleshoot all of the crashing 15" Powerbooks here.

We've purchased our ram from two sources, OtherWorldComputing and DMS memory. Only good things to say about DMS. Phone answered on the second ring - no hassles, and new memory to arrive in two days. As for OWC, 20 minutes on hold, and a manager will contact me as to whether or not I will be seeing a replacement.

I'm a little disappointed with OWC. Worse comes to worse, if they decided not to honor their lifetime warrantee, I can swap the memory into one of the more tolerant 17" Powerbooks and hope the Apple brand memory will fare better in the temperamental 15" AluBooks.

Keiretsu · Nov 3, 2003, 05:00 PM

I have a 15" Powerbook BTO with a faster disk and a 512MB stick. I bought a 512MB stick from Kingston and it works fine, both under 10.2.8 and 10.3(7B85)!

Cool thing with Kingston: you can look up the part number for memory stocks in the Apple Store and search for a compatible Kingston product using this number! So it's really easy to pik the right memory for your Mac.

Tomster · Nov 3, 2003, 06:19 PM

Well, OWC let me down. No replacement because the memory was "too old." I really did not understand what old had to do with a lifetime warrantee.

Basically, I purchased from them 512 DDR-333mhz cl2.5 pc2700 ram. It does not work in the 15" Powerbook. They are willing to sell me ram of the exact same specifications but I would have to give them more money because that ram is "different." I would have no issue with that if in deed it was different ram, but their excuse is a thinly veiled excuse - basically crap.

Needless to say, they have lost a faithful customer. I look forward to heckling them at Macworld.

acadian · Nov 3, 2003, 07:27 PM

Woe, finally somebody else picks up on this, I had posted about this issue on my Rev B 17" awhile back. The porblem is essentially parity vs non parity RAM. I went through 4 512 sticks which made Panther unusable until I got my Hands on a Kingston module, works fine now. Kingston, Crucial and Apple OEM seem to be the only suppliers of non parity RAM. The lower grade RAM sticks tend to be Parity, hence the issue.

Tomster · Nov 3, 2003, 11:53 PM

I don't think it's a parity issue. The ram works great in 17" powerbooks with 10.2.8 as well as 10.3. In fact, one of the defective sticks was recycled into the Powerbook on which I am typing this message. The ram also works great in all 15" Alubooks running 10.2.8.

Something in Panther turned on something on the 15" Powerbooks that was incompatible with that ram. The tech said something about the ram being coded for variable rate, whatever that means. It made sense because under Panther in a 15", any time the plug was pulled, the computer crashed, but only if the processor speed was set to automatic. Maybe the EE's out there can extrapolate what happened.

Anyways, the reason I am pissed at OWC was that they replaced everyone else's ram except for mine. Their excuse was that others intended the ram for 15" Powerbooks whereas mine was purchased for a 17". It shouldn't matter what I bought the ram for as long as it worked. And it does not. Trust is built upon many good deeds and lost with but a single bad one. OWC just joined my list of crap vendors.

bamchum · Nov 4, 2003, 02:00 AM

OWC is sending me Techworks RAM to replace the cheaper stick I bought from them that doesn't work in my AlBook 15".

They claim the Techworks had zero problems.

They are charging me an extra $10 for it though. I was going to complain about this but, what with the white spots and other problems on this powerbook, I just didn't have the energy.

So take my money, OWC, but that new stick had better work like you say it will or there'll be hell to pay.

Waveman · Nov 4, 2003, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Tomster:
Anyways, the reason I am pissed at OWC was that they replaced everyone else's ram except for mine. Their excuse was that others intended the ram for 15" Powerbooks whereas mine was purchased for a 17". It shouldn't matter what I bought the ram for as long as it worked. And it does not. Trust is built upon many good deeds and lost with but a single bad one. OWC just joined my list of crap vendors.

As you say, they're adopting the position that the RAM worked in the computer for which you bought it and that they had made no claim that it would work in a 15".

OWC recently replaced my RAM for the same incompatibility that you mentioned. The original stick worked fine under 10.2.8, but the Panther installer froze.

Bottom line: They should replace your memory as an act of good faith (and good business).

mainemanx · Nov 4, 2003, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Tomster:
... Anyways, the reason I am pissed at OWC ... OWC just joined my list of crap vendors.

Yes, I've had marginal results with OWC ... put in a bad word for me also

stilltron · Nov 4, 2003, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by mainemanx:
Yes, I've had marginal results with OWC ... put in a bad word for me also

I bought two 512 Mb sticks from OWC a year ago fr my Pismo. One of them was bad. They replaced it pretty fast, though.

I recommend Crucial when purchasing RAM for the 15" Albook. I bought 2 512 sticks from them last week. Delivery was quick, and both work fine.

Daniel

Tomster · Nov 4, 2003, 01:09 PM

They are charging me an extra $10 for it though.

Ten bucks would have been fair. They wanted to charge me an extra $40. Plus shipping. Plus shipping the old ram back. So I was looking at about $55. Hmmm. Hell no!

The remaining OWC ram will be swapped into 17" Powerbooks. End of problem. End of customer patronage.

On a more positive side, anyone figure out what the 15" Powerbooks do under Panther? I am guessing it has to do with some sort of cool power management. Does the bus speed clock down? Or is it something more complicated/elegant?

Holy Zoo · Nov 4, 2003, 11:14 PM

Just to throw more data into the mix:

I bought 2 sticks of SmallDog.com's generic 512meg, and it's been working great now for a week with Panther.

acedloring · Nov 4, 2003, 11:24 PM

I just bought a 512meg stick from OWC for my new 15"pb that is coming back from repair tomorrow. I wish I had seen this post prior to buying the RAM. I wonder if they are now sending RAM that works. I had previously purchased memory from 18004memory and had to return it becuase it caused kernel panics. Has anyone had luck with OWC memory for the new 15"pb?

Tomster · Nov 4, 2003, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by acedloring:
I just bought a 512meg stick from OWC for my new 15"pb that is coming back from repair tomorrow. I wish I had seen this post prior to buying the RAM. I wonder if they are now sending RAM that works. I had previously purchased memory from 18004memory and had to return it becuase it caused kernel panics. Has anyone had luck with OWC memory for the new 15"pb?

No worries for you. The problem has been discovered and documented. Even if you did get a bad stick, they will replace it for you.

That's why I'm so pissed. They replaced everyone else's ram. Except mine.