[baggio]

Hi,

I am a student in my last year of University computer science. I am long Windows & FreeBSD user. I was thinking of buying a Mac in the next week or so. I am leaning towards the iBook G4 933Mhz.

I will be using this machine for typical day-to-day type stuff, websurfing, music, word processing, etc. etc. But also development. In particular, next semester I will be taking a class on 3D graphics. (We will NOT be using any existing 3rd party 3D tools, we will be developing the software that generates the 3d graphics ourselves.) So I will be coding in C (maybe C++) using OpenGL. Definately doing some heavy linear algebra computations.

I am just wondering if anybody uses the iBook for development, and if so, how does gcc perform on it? Would I be better off with a 12" powerbook? The laptop will be connected to a VGA screen most of the time. But I need a laptop so I can have the freedom to go home on some weekends and still work on my projects. I'm not too concerned with "portability" in terms of 12-vs-14 inch screens since I probably won't be taking it everywhere on campus with me. But the larger 14-inch screen is appealing since it might be easier on my eyes.

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!

[pat++]

Go ahead with G4 iBook. It's pretty fast. I'm doing some 'light' development with my 500mhz iBook, so any G4 should handle the job pretty easily.

[alien]

I have an iBook 500 and Xcode is running fine here. I don't know much about gcc specifically, there shouldn't be any differences between the iBook G4 and the PB12" in this area. gcc 3.1 that comes with Panther is better than earlier versions.

Also, the iBook has a Radeon 9200, which should be fine for your OpenGL programming. One problem with the iBook is that there is only official support for mirroring to an external screen, at the same resolution as the LCD (1024x768). There is a "spanning hack" that you can use to avoid this, which would enable you to attach an external screen at a higher resolution. (This will technically void your warranty, but you can revert to the original firmware if necessary - I believe.)

With the PB you don't have this problem.

For linear algebra stuff, they should perform about the same, though the PB has more cache. In any case, the G4 has a slow system bus, so don't expect miracles. You'll want to add memory, I'd recommend 640MB.

Personally I prefer the 12" screen, since the pixels are bigger on the 14". You should try both screens before buying if you have the possibility.

[baggio]

Originally posted by alien:
I have an iBook 500 and Xcode is running fine here. I don't know much about gcc specifically, there shouldn't be any differences between the iBook G4 and the PB12" in this area. gcc 3.1 that comes with Panther is better than earlier versions.

Also, the iBook has a Radeon 9200, which should be fine for your OpenGL programming. One problem with the iBook is that there is only official support for mirroring to an external screen, at the same resolution as the LCD (1024x768). There is a "spanning hack" that you can use to avoid this, which would enable you to attach an external screen at a higher resolution. (This will technically void your warranty, but you can revert to the original firmware if necessary - I believe.)

With the PB you don't have this problem.

For linear algebra stuff, they should perform about the same, though the PB has more cache. In any case, the G4 has a slow system bus, so don't expect miracles. You'll want to add memory, I'd recommend 640MB.

Personally I prefer the 12" screen, since the pixels are bigger on the 14". You should try both screens before buying if you have the possibility.

Yeah, the PB spanning is the only thing holding me back from purchasing an iBook. It does seem like a nice feature to have, and I'm not quite sure I'd be willing to try the iBook hack for it.

Unfortunately, the University computer store does not have an iBook on display, but I will probably try to convince them to show me one before I buy one. They have a 12" powerbook on display though. To me, it seems quite small, I suppose its all a matter of personal preference. I'm also worried about the iBook "staining" I've heard about here, but I suppose if one were careful you could avoid most of that.

I'm still not quite sure which direction to go in yet, but I'm currently leaning towards the iBook. In any case, I will probably make my choice in less than a week, so I'll be a "switcher" soon.

[ginoledesma]

Hello,

Like you, I had reservations about the iBook and initially prefered the PowerBook for the reasons (or concerns) you expressed -- secondary display support, slightly better performance because of larger cache and faster chip, etc. However, I opted for the iBook ultimately for price and "durability" concerns. I got to play around with the iBook for half a day, and I simply loved the plastic exterior. It's not as sleek as the PowerBook, but it is sooo immaculate white and nice on the feel that scratches and other accidental bumps don't scare me too much.

Anyway, more than the looks, the iBook 800 is already performer primarily because of Panther. I can't get over how much snappier it feels compared to me souped-upped/maxed-out PowerMac G4/400/1GB setup, even when it ran Panther!

I'm loving XCode, though I do still tend to do a lot of my work using Eclipse (I do Java development mostly). gcc is fine -- I used it for my systems programming class almost 2 years ago when I was still in college (using my PowerMac G4). Granted, I didn't do anything processor intensive so I'm unable to comment on performance differences among different G4 chips. For what its worth, compiling a number of open source programs from source is much faster on my iBook than my previous G4, though admittedly they are 400MHz apart.

The PowerBook G4/1GHz will most likely edge out the iBook in all processor-intensive or tasks that are known to take time to complete. How much faster is going to be on a case-to-case basis I guess, but overall it won't be too drastic a performance difference.

If you have the money, then buy the best laptop you can. You won't go wrong doing that (except perhaps maybe if you get a 17" now and then Apple decides to announce something better like a G5 next year -- heehee). The iBook G4/933 and PowerBook's prices aren't too far apart, so if you think the extra cash is worth it (you're getting BT built in, audio out, 256MB on-board with one free slot, looks, and a larger cache).

[ginoledesma]

Regarding the iBook spanning hack, I've only used it for 2 days but I'm simply loving it! One less feature to match the PowerBook.

I can't get it to operate in "clamshell mode", though, and I'm told that a manual Open Firmware modification (relatively simple) should do the trick. Clamshell mode is when you have your iBook hooked up to an external monitor, keyboard and mouse and shut the lid, and then using the computer regularly (your iBook effectively becomes just like a CPU). The only issue is that the external display is limited to a maximum resolution of 1024x768 (which is the max. LCD resolution). If you want a higher resolution, you will have to have the LCD slightly lifted,

I don't see any problems with the spanning hack at all. You just download a simple program (an AppleScript at that), double click it, reboot, and voila! Instant dual-display support.

[nickgold2012]

The spanning hack WILL NOT void your warranty or AppleCare Protection Plan -- it's a software mod, and will not damage your hardware. If you run into video problems simply remove the hack, and/or reset-nvram from Open Firmware, and if your problem remains, it in no way has anything to do with the hack.