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WizOSX · Apr 9, 2004, 07:17 PM

I've been having problems with 10.3.x (all versions). I'm also considering a new PowerBook if new "speed-bumped" models come out in the next few weeks. But it would be essential that I be able to run 10.2.8 on the new machine. So my question is this: does anyone know if Apple puts "machine specific code" in Panther that would make this impossible. I think the current models were all geared toward Jaguar so they wouldn't be a problem. Has anyone tried to run something older than Jaguar on the latest PB's?

SEkker · Apr 9, 2004, 08:01 PM

We purchased a revB PB12" that came preloaded with OS X 10.3. We tried to put 10.2.8 because we have a molecular biology package that does not yet work with Panther. No go.

I do not know about the other PBs, but this was a surprise to us.

WizOSX · Apr 9, 2004, 08:07 PM

Thanks, SEkker, for that quick reply. That really is a surprise! Especially considering that the Rev. B 12" PowerBook would have been under development before Panther appeared. Also, didn't some of the first Rev B PowerBooks ship with Jaguar just before Panther arrived? Anyone have one?

KidKit · Apr 10, 2004, 12:01 AM

I don't see why the RevB Albooks shouldn't be able to run 10.2. I bought my 12" in Oct '03, and it came with 10.2 pre-installed and in the DVD, but also had an additional 10.3 upgrade pack as that was after the launch of Panther.

SEkker: have you every tried doing a format and clean install on those powerbooks before?

buddhabelly · Apr 10, 2004, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by KidKit:
I don't see why the RevB Albooks shouldn't be able to run 10.2. I bought my 12" in Oct '03, and it came with 10.2 pre-installed and in the DVD, but also had an additional 10.3 upgrade pack as that was after the launch of Panther.

SEkker: have you every tried doing a format and clean install on those powerbooks before?

This has been the case with macs for awhile. I remember my surprise with my old g4 tower. I had upgraded to 9.2 and a few firmware updates along the way. At some point, I tried to load the ORIGINAL software restore discs that came with my make. No go.

I'm guessing there's a firmware change in there somewhere.

angelmb · Apr 10, 2004, 05:56 AM

Well, my Al 17" PB come with 10.2.8, so I am actually running 10.3.3 but I could run 10.2.8, but nothing under that. So, you can pick a e.g. rev.A PB 17" simply ask for the Mac OS that was built-in with it. Same goes to the PB 12".

wunderkind · Apr 10, 2004, 08:32 AM

The lowest OS version which rev B PB 12" can run is 10.2.8.

To be able to do this one needs to have 10.2.8 Restore or Install disk. There's no way to install 10.2.8 on it going from 10.2.0. Tried myself.

discotronic · Apr 10, 2004, 09:43 AM

I have a 1.25GHz iMac. It came with 10.2.7. I have heard that the reason that it won't run anything lower (besides firmware) is because of the built in USB 2.0. Something with 10.2.7 and higher deals with it.

Drakino · Apr 10, 2004, 12:14 PM

Because newer hardware comes with newer revisions of critical components like the chipset, older retail OS X software will not work on newer hardware. They just have no idea how to talk to the newer components vital to running the system.

My 15 inch Powerbook came with 10.2.7 out of the box, and has that version of the OS on the restore DVD it shipped with. 10.3 retail works on all current Apple products due to it coming out after all the curent systems.

From what I know of someone buying a Powerbook about a month ago, it came with 10.3.2 out of the box, and on the restore DVD. Since the hardware hasn't changed, I'm assuming my 10.2.8 disc would have worked on his system.

If the new speed bumped versions are indeed just a speedbump, it's possible the 10.2.7 restore discs might work on it. But definitly not the 10.2 retail discs.

mdc · Apr 10, 2004, 12:23 PM

my first 12" powerbook came with 10.2.7 took it back for a reason, other one i got had 10.3. 15" powerbook i got yesterday had 10.2.7 on it, but came with 10.3 cds. (it is a refurb)

Person Man · Apr 10, 2004, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by mdc:
my first 12" powerbook came with 10.2.7 took it back for a reason, other one i got had 10.3. 15" powerbook i got yesterday had 10.2.7 on it, but came with 10.3 cds. (it is a refurb)

That was my experience with my refurbed Power Mac G5. The drive had 10.2.7 on it, but the restore DVD was 10.3.

rag on a muffin · Apr 10, 2004, 05:28 PM

what problems are you having anyways?

WizOSX · Apr 10, 2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by rag on a muffin
what problems are you having anyways?

I described the main one in this thread:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=200599

Basically, I've found that certain documents that print just fine in 10.2.8 will not print at all in Panther. These are single page Word documents that are densely formatted. They include imbedded graphics, lots of Equation editor equations, are two column landscape mode and have fairly tight margins. Most of my work on any of my computers is creating these kinds of documents. The surprise came a week or so after I installed Panther on one of my machines. I tried to print a doc that I had created last fall and it wouldn't print on either my HP Laserjet 1220 or 2100M but printed just fine on them from 10.2.8. With hundreds of such docs that I've created over the past decade, I can't afford to be in the position that, all of a sudden, one won't print.

The other problem, which seems to be fairly widespread, is that Panther can have problems with pen drives. I have two and my work flow depends on them. It is totally unpredictable when Panther will see neither, one or the other, or both.

Also, since installing the latest security update, the machine that I have Panther on has become somewhat unstable, crashing in odd places. Up until now I've found OSX to be virtually crash proof, but no more.

rag on a muffin · Apr 10, 2004, 06:46 PM

i had this problem with an earlier os x. try copying the document into a new one. im not sure this will work for you, but it did for me!

the other problems im not sure why you have them. you tried running all the basic utilities like repairing disk permissions? have you enabled disk journaling? thats quite odd.

SEkker · Apr 10, 2004, 06:56 PM

[The revB PB12 G4 came with 10.3 installed, but it would not even boot any 10.2 OS X installation disks. In the end, we installed 10.2.8 from another machine, and the PB would not recognize the OS. It seems to have a firmware check.]

As for printing, which is another problem -- I recently installed HP printer descriptions over the Apple-included files because of word docs with embedded images that would not print correctly. Our problems were with Jaguar or Panther. Once I installed the HP driver package, everything was fine. I know of no significant difference in printing between Jaguar or Panther.