[Yana21rk]

I'm yet another scared wanna-be-buyer of the 12" ibook.
After researching into various Mac forums and reviews I came into the conclusion that there is really only one potential 'scare' and that is that the ibook might not wake up from sleep. And the minor issue with the keyboard not being as 'sturdy' as many wish. Among many pros though, there is a long battery life, absence of crashing software, and good price for the money.

Am I missing something?
I am hoping to buy it next week, but obviously anytime you buys anthing so expensive, you wanna know if there are any faults.
I really want to know if people're having more problems than just the waking up from sleep issue, since i think by disabling the sleep mode on my future ibook i might be able to avoid that problem.

any thoughts?

(PS: hope to use future ibook for university work, scanning and working with pictures, internet)

[mrweirdo]

If you are looking at the different versions on the ibook. And you were looking to save some money you might come accross the G3 version. I would say stick with the G4 for the following reason and the fact that its a newer CPU anyways

One of the problems i know of was with the older G3 version of the ibook having logic board problems. Some apple offers to fix it and others they havent. They usualy wind up going haywire again anyways.

[Yana21rk]

I'm getting a G4 ibook for sure. I really want a 12" for the simple reason that it'll be in my backpack all day between classes and it's so light.
The anxiety the comes with making a decision is that some people on this board said that there are problems with this ibook like i already mentioned 'sleeping' problem and some kind of incompatibility with Bluetooth module.
I am also scared because it's going to be the first MAC i've ever had and I just hope that the 85% of PCs on the market - doesn't mean that I will have a limited choice of what i can do, like printing, downloading, writing papers, e-mailing files to people who have a PC?

[Chito]

I wouldn't be scared. I've owned two G3 ibooks, a 500 and currently an 800 and have never had a single problem with either. The lone exception being the 500 needs a rubber foot replaced. I gave the 500 to my girlfriend and she uses it as her main computer. I know there have been problems but I think most ibook owners haven't been effected by them. The ibook offers great bang for the buck, which is why there have been so many sold (IMHO) since they came out. I would go for the G4 model if you can afford it, but wouldn't shy away from the G3's if you can't....there are some pretty nice deals to be had. As for the keyboard issue (non issue?) I don't mind mine at all. I did notice that if you lock the keyboard it feels much better....you just want to make sure you unlock it before trying to install ram or an airport.
Just my two cents....I'd buy a new ibook in a heartbeat if I weren't lusting after a dual G5 right now....which I don't need....but you know :-)

[mrweirdo]

luckily alot of the major software vendors on the pc also make MAC versions of there software. So most things you can do on the PC can be done on the MAC. There is a small posibility of some crossplatform issues but usualy it is something small that can be fixed. For example fonts are different.

[Yana21rk]

Locking the keyboard? i'm not sure i understand what you mean

[Yana21rk]

SO what is the issue with the different fonts? i presume it's impossible to open any documents originally created on MAC on PC?

[Forte]

Originally posted by Yana21rk:
SO what is the issue with the different fonts? i presume it's impossible to open any documents originally created on MAC on PC?

It depends what kind of documents you're talking about, really. In my experience, I haven't had any problems with using the same files between Mac OS X and Windows.
I'm not sure where/why fonts come into that, though - what do you mean?

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by Yana21rk:
Locking the keyboard? i'm not sure i understand what you mean

that little flat head screw thing between the f5 and f6 keys. turn to lock the keyboard down.

[Yana21rk]

between f5 anf f6. ok....at the expense of sounding stupid - in what instances have you found it useful to lock your keyboard?

[Chito]

none other than it makes the keyboard feel MUCH firmer. And since I've already got my airport card and ram installed I tried it...and I like it. Personal preference really....

[mrweirdo]

one of the things with fonts I have found when I used a font on a mac in a photoshop psd and then went to a pc and loaded that same document the text came out garbled. All I had to do is change the font on the pc to something like Times New Roman, etc. Not a big deal.

[ginoledesma]

Hi, yana21rk

I have the iBook G4/800, my 3rd Mac but the first laptop I've owned. I bought it last November 2003, and it has given me no significant problems whatsoever. My iBook does not have the sleeping problem you mentioned, nor do several of my friends' iBook G4s. I'm not sure if its a minority/isolated problem, though.

[Yana21rk]

OK! thanks everyone.
this coming monday hopefully I am going to to get my Mac from a local Apple store. here is what i'm going to get
12" G4 ibook
40 or 60 GB (not decided yet)
512 MB
the Office X software
Airport extreme card
3 year care
antivirus bundle
and maybe a backpack to carry it around in.

You think this is all good choice or am I missing something that I should definetly get?

[BobVB]

Originally posted by Yana21rk:
OK! thanks everyone.
this coming monday hopefully I am going to to get my Mac from a local Apple store. here is what i'm going to get
12" G4 ibook
40 or 60 GB (not decided yet)
512 MB
the Office X software
Airport extreme card
3 year care
antivirus bundle
and maybe a backpack to carry it around in.

You think this is all good choice or am I missing something that I should definetly get?

I really can't see getting a BTO without the built-in bluetooth module since you can't add it later. Just for the ease of carry around a BT mouse and instantly using it to avoid 'trackpad claw' would be worth the $50 alone. Plus if you get a GPRS capable BT phone its great for instantly being on the internet anywhere you have cell phone reception (in the car consulting mapquest for the driver is alway a good demo of this capability). BT dongles are just something to lose and an accident waiting to happen for your USB ports. I've misplaced, bought, and found so many from my previous iBook I now have 3

I just upgraded from an original ice iBook to the new G4 12" iBook, and the thing I love the most about it is the built in BT. Oh and FYI: Bluetake makes a great portable friendly BT mouse (BT500) that you can get on eBay and various vendors for less than $50 - even has a 'limited edition' all white to with a black base one that looks great with an iBook. (KingofGadgets.com had some in stock when I ordered.) Some people complained about waking from sleep pairing problems but I haven't had a problem with this so either it was isolated or maybe fixed by the last Bluetooth firmware upgrade...)

[Londor]

yana21rk

You do not really need an antivirus (viruses do not run on Macs) but if you feel safer get any one but Norton's (it will mess up your system).

[StevenWRX]

the antivirus software can be skipped for now, also pick up office 2004 instead of offive v.X. office 2004 just came out and is offered in a student edition for $149.

good luck

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Londor:
yana21rk

You do not really need an antivirus (viruses do not run on Macs) but if you feel safer get any one but Norton's (it will mess up your system).

Could you please explain how Norton Antivirus will mess a system up? If you are going to offer up a statement like that please back it up.

As far as not needing an antivirus - that is a load of crap. Viruses may not run on a Mac but that doesn't mean that a virus can't be transferred to a Mac and then tranferred to a Windows machine. Anyone who is the least bit serious about security will run an antivirus program. Everyone needs to takes precautions to protect the computing community. You never know, the virus that you spread may be the one that takes down your friends or families computer.

[Langdon]

Originally posted by discotronic:
Could you please explain how Norton Antivirus will mess a system up? If you are going to offer up a statement like that please back it up.

As far as not needing an antivirus - that is a load of crap. Viruses may not run on a Mac but that doesn't mean that a virus can't be transferred to a Mac and then tranferred to a Windows machine. Anyone who is the least bit serious about security will run an antivirus program. Everyone needs to takes precautions to protect the computing community. You never know, the virus that you spread may be the one that takes down your friends or families computer.

Because Norton software has been garbage for the Mac the last 6 years.
If you want proof do a search for Norton and see how many people blast it versus recommending it.

[Londor]

Thanks Langdon. I was just about to say the same. 99.9% of Mac users do not want Norton software even near our Macs. There is always someone who disagrees.

Regarding the antivirus I have one (I got it with the .Mac suite) and I am yet to find a virus on my system and I have been on the net 24/7 for over 3 years now. I must say I almost never run it nowadays because I know the result beforehand "No viruses have been found".

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Langdon:
Because Norton software has been garbage for the Mac the last 6 years.
If you want proof do a search for Norton and see how many people blast it versus recommending it.

Do any of these people have hard evidence? How does Norton's Antivirus program screw someones system up? Has any reputable sources come forward with this information? I've yet to see any. All I ever see is people posting in forums stating that "Norton Sucks". I'm not saying that Norton is good or bad. Just show me some hard evidence of what it does.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Londor:
Thanks Langdon. I was just about to say the same. 99.9% of Mac users do not want Norton software even near our Macs. There is always someone who disagrees.

Regarding the antivirus I have one (I got it with the .Mac suite) and I am yet to find a virus on my system and I have been on the net 24/7 for over 3 years now. I must say I almost never run it nowadays because I know the result beforehand "No viruses have been found".

Did I say that I disagreed with you about Norton being crap? All I asked was for you to explain why Norton will mess your system up. You didn't.

Just because the virus program didn't find one doesn't mean you can't or haven't passed one along.

[Londor]

Just a few examples:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=191246

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=200370

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=198645

There are hundreds more.

[Langdon]

Originally posted by discotronic:
Do any of these people have hard evidence? How does Norton's Antivirus program screw someones system up? Has any reputable sources come forward with this information? I've yet to see any. All I ever see is people posting in forums stating that "Norton Sucks". I'm not saying that Norton is good or bad. Just show me some hard evidence of what it does.

Fine, then you buy a copy and send it to the Admins for MacNN to review.

I am telling you that there are a lot of people here, on Ars, and the Apple Forums who have, had, and will never again touch Norton for the Mac. If you don't want to believe their testimonials then buy it for your computer and all the world is happy. If there are so many people who dislike it there has to be a reason. I had it up to V.6 when I worked tech support for a dept. in college and it never did anything but make things worse. No one here is going to bend over backwards to give you evidence so you'll have to learn the hard way.

[discotronic]

You people kill me! You can't back up a thing that you say with hard evidence. You shoot off at the mouth and can't back it up. All you can come back with is I will have to learn the hard way. I'm not asking you to bend over backwards. Just offer up some real proof. I have yet to find someone that can. If the program does that much damage how come it isn't on a headline on MacNN, CNET, Apple, Macworld or any number of other places? I have found just as many people on forums that have said the program has always been reliable. Here are reviews that I found and everyone of them gave Norton high marks:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4505-3513_7-30506362.html
http://www.maccritic.com/reviews/article/149_0_13_10_M
http://www.applelinks.com/reviews/systemworks3.shtml
http://www.mymac.com/weeks/nsw_10.9.02.shtml
http://www.macworld.com/2002/10/reviews/norton/
http://www.macmerc.com/reviews.php?o...tent&id=67

If I were to believe everything people say I would think that Windows is the greatest OS ever and that Intel is here to save all us Mac freaks. Fortunately I don't believe everything people say. I question when people say a program will destroy your system.

All I asked was how will Norton's Antivirus progams screw your system up?

[Londor]

I gave you three threads I could remember (there are many more but I do not have the time nor the will of looking for them) of people reporting problems with Norton Antivirus Software. Do you really think that a review is more trustworthy than users' experiences?

[Langdon]

Originally posted by discotronic:
You people kill me! You can't back up a thing that you say with hard evidence. You shoot off at the mouth and can't back it up. All you can come back with is I will have to learn the hard way. I'm not asking you to bend over backwards. Just offer up some real proof. I have yet to find someone that can. If the program does that much damage how come it isn't on a headline on MacNN, CNET, Apple, Macworld or any number of other places? I have found just as many people on forums that have said the program has always been reliable. Here are reviews that I found and everyone of them gave Norton high marks:

I just said I had experience with Nortons up to version 6 in an entire academic department. That was about 30 machines throughout the different labs and offices. I had to resolve a hell of a lot of problems that Nortons caused in data corruption, extension conflicts, and various other issues. So if I say I had nothing but bad experiences with it I am not making it up. You are the one who has nothing to back up. I see no where in here that you have ever used or owned a copy of the programs. So who are you to question others who do have experience with it?

If you want to use the program go right ahead. But if someone comes on here and asks if it is a worthwhile investment I can attest to the fact that it has not been for most users I have seen. Until you use several revisions of the program I suggest that you just keep your mouth shut since you have nothing valuable to offer.

[RadarBob2]

I came into the conclusion that there is really only one potential 'scare' and that is that the ibook might not wake up from sleep.

"Now I close you down to sleep,
I pray TheSteve your CPU to keep,
If you die and do not wake,
I thank TheSteve I bought AppleCare."

There. Problem solved.

[Yana21rk]

Norton Antivirus? I'll be glad to post a 'Norton Sucks' message! I lost 2 hard drives on my home PC in the last year since everytime i downloaded Norton, my computer would start having problems and crashing and would finally get another crashed harddrive. it's a disaster waiting to happen. Personally, i wouldn't use norton if my life depended on it. but if someone is happy with it, then i guess they are lucky.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Langdon:
I suggest that you just keep your mouth shut since you have nothing valuable to offer.

Langdon -- I have used Norton Antivirus off and on since OS 8.6. I have never had a problem with it. I know at least 15 other people who use or have used it and without incident. This whole time I have been asking where is the proof? I've offered every reliable review I could find and not one of them has stated anything about Norton Antivirus screwing a system up. Not once did you say what it did or why you think that it did. Am I defending Norton? No. Am I asking a valid question? Yes. If you can't or don't have the answer don't post back.

By the way.... I suggest you kiss my a**. All you have done is try to flame me because I asked a question. At this point I wouldn't believe anything you told me anyway.

Originally posted by Langdon:

I gave you three threads I could remember (there are many more but I do not have the time nor the will of looking for them) of people reporting problems with Norton Antivirus Software. Do you really think that a review is more trustworthy than users' experiences?

Londor -- One person out of the 3 threads actually said what Norton did to their system and even then it was because of Norton Utilities and not Antivirus. The one post that stated a problem with NAV actually came back and said it was not NAV and it was another problem all together. Out of all the forum posts that I have read the vast majority have had problems with Norton Utilities and not NAV. Everyone at one time or another has had a bad experience with a program that has caused a minor inconvienance. Does that make those other programs crap? I have yet to see proof in anything that I have read that NAV will screw a system up.


Thanks for the help guys. I'm glad that people are always so helpful when someone has a question. I quit.

[Langdon]

Originally posted by discotronic:
Langdon -- I have used Norton Antivirus off and on since OS 8.6. I have never had a problem with it. I know at least 15 other people who use or have used it and without incident. This whole time I have been asking where is the proof? I've offered every reliable review I could find and not one of them has stated anything about Norton Antivirus screwing a system up. Not once did you say what it did or why you think that it did. Am I defending Norton? No. Am I asking a valid question? Yes. If you can't or don't have the answer don't post back.

By the way.... I suggest you kiss my a**. All you have done is try to flame me because I asked a question. At this point I wouldn't believe anything you told me anyway.


Thanks for the help guys. I'm glad that people are always so helpful when someone has a question. I quit.

I said Nortons was garbage. Then I said you would have to learn the hard way that people who hate it are not incorrect in hating it and you would one day see for yourself. Then you went off the cuff about us shooting our mouths off. So you can fcku off for being such an ass towards us.

There is no one problem with Nortons there are several and as the person who began this thread pointed out it goes cross platform. There are problems with any version that runs in Classic and many other Apple & 3rd party extensions that conflict with Norton. The virus scan likes to freeze at shut down, Disk Doctor currupts files, and I could go on. But I don't really have to make that point because as I said at the start a simple search on the forum shows the legacy of problems it has.
So unless you can show that there are more people in ANY forum, who are not being paid to write reviews, saying how great it is then instead of how it made life hell we would be right . I guess the burden of proof falls to you.

I think you should just leave MacNN you have brought nothing of worth in your short time here.... it must carry over from your real life.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Langdon:
I said Nortons was garbage. Then I said you would have to learn the hard way that people who hate it are not incorrect in hating it and you would one day see for yourself. Then you went off the cuff about us shooting our mouths off. So you can fcku off for being such an ass towards us.

There is no one problem with Nortons there are several and as the person who began this thread pointed out it goes cross platform. There are problems with any version that runs in Classic and many other Apple & 3rd party extensions that conflict with Norton. The virus scan likes to freeze at shut down, Disk Doctor currupts files, and I could go on. But I don't really have to make that point because as I said at the start a simple search on the forum shows the legacy of problems it has.
So unless you can show that there are more people in ANY forum, who are not being paid to write reviews, saying how great it is then instead of how it made life hell we would be right . I guess the burden of proof falls to you.

I think you should just leave MacNN you have brought nothing of worth in your short time here.... it must carry over from your real life.

I'm fairly certain you can go f*ck yourself and you're the one that started the "I'm going to be a total ass" thing. If you want me off MacNN...Come on down to Virgina and log me off. Till then, go hold your breath.

I've already searched the forums. I did not find any information to indicate that NAV has screwed anybody's system up. The burden of you being an ass falls on everyone here.

[ginoledesma]

Guys, please! This is a thread about the author's questions regarding an iBook purchase, not Norton Antivirus. I'm sure that debate can be taken elsewhere, as it has already been discussed to the death several times. Please cool down.

Yana, I'd also recommend getting Bluetooth built-in since you're getting BTO already. Its a worthwhile upgrade, even if you won't be using it immediately. As for 40GB or 60GB, I'd recommend going for 60GB for the value. You can't have too much space these days, and what with the nifty tool that is iPhoto and iTunes, having tons of storage for your photos and music is really going to be beneficial.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by ginoledesma:
Guys, please! This is a thread about the author's questions regarding an iBook purchase, not Norton Antivirus. I'm sure that debate can be taken elsewhere, as it has already been discussed to the death several times. Please cool down.

I think you're right

[Yana21rk]

Hey thanks.
back on the subject. So Bluetooth recommended.
Hey what about the financing? I have a hard time spitting up so much money at the same time. I was wondering if anyone did it the financing way. pros cons anyone?
one more thing - i worked on Mac at the university yesterday and my biggest complaint was on that stupid litte mouse (it was a transparent apple mouse). i really hated it so i thought i'd ask if anyone else thought so too?

[d4nth3m4n]

you can very easily use any usb mouse on the market with a mac product. while i agree that apple mice are somewhat, if not totally dated with their simplicity, this is neither the time nor the place to have a discussion about this. we all saw how the norton comment went.

moral: yes, any mouse will work.

[Yana21rk]

ok the deed is done. last night i went and go meself a 14" ibook. all along i was looking at the 12", but when i got to the store i thought it was too small, and i got financing (with crazy interest) so i went for the 14" inch.
so all i have to do now is hook it up to the internet.
i have DSL and not sure how to do that.
Anyone?

[d4nth3m4n]

cant just plug it in? wont dhcp cover it?

[Yana21rk]

plug what in in what? sorry this is stupid,
i tried to plug in the extension into the modem and into the notebook but it didn't work.
sound like the simplest problem but it's giving me a headache.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by Yana21rk:
plug what in in what? sorry this is stupid,
i tried to plug in the extension into the modem and into the notebook but it didn't work.
sound like the simplest problem but it's giving me a headache.

talk to your isp or go and party in the networking lounge. you sure there isn't an ethernet cable or something that fits in the second slot in from the screen edge of the comp?>

[Yana21rk]

Does anyone know how i can find all the wireless coffee shops in a aprticular town?

[selowitch]

Originally posted by Yana21rk:
Does anyone know how i can find all the wireless coffee shops in a aprticular town?

Try this link.

[finboy]

Originally posted by discotronic:
I've already searched the forums. I did not find any information to indicate that NAV has screwed anybody's system up. The burden of you being an ass falls on everyone here.

OK, from another Virginian. All was fine with my iBook G3 until I installed Systemworks, including Antivirus. Running Disk Doctor trashed my system, and I had to reinitialize and reinstall from scratch. Luckily it was two days old, so I hadn't installed anything yet. Except Norton.

Antivirus Autoprotect has ALWAYS caused more problems than it fixed. In particular, the scanning of archives (even limited to SIT files) used to crash my machine EVERY TIME I RAN IT. In OS 8.6, 9.0.4, 9.1, and 9.2.2. And it did it repetitively because I used to routinely have to trash Norton prefs to get Filesaver to run without locking up the machine.

Hey, I'm a Norton fan from way back. But the last few years has convinced me that Symantec doesn't want my business any longer. I only bought it this last time around because I wanted ANY virus protection, and it was on CD and not a download.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by discotronic:
Do any of these people have hard evidence? How does Norton's Antivirus program screw someones system up? Has any reputable sources come forward with this information? I've yet to see any. All I ever see is people posting in forums stating that "Norton Sucks". I'm not saying that Norton is good or bad. Just show me some hard evidence of what it does.

Man, if you don't believe it, then go ahead.
But don't whine later.

If there were indeed no problems with Norton, we wouldn't have thousands of people complaining about it.

Norton under OS X suxx big time.
It was good under 8.x and 9.x.
Under OS X, I had major trouble and stopped using it.


-t

[discotronic]