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selowitch · Jun 2, 2004, 05:43 PM

ATI is introducing expandable graphics cards specifically for laptops. How long do you think before these things start showing up in PowerBooks? I certainly hope it's soon, maybe even in time for Macworld Boston!

Applefreak01 · Jun 2, 2004, 10:12 PM

I don't think we'll see a Powerbook with upgradable graphics cards any time soon. One reason being the Mac needs more good high quality 3D games to dirve the need for better graphics cards. The current graphic cards aren't that bad either.

selowitch · Jun 2, 2004, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Applefreak01:
The current graphic cards aren't that bad either.

That's true. But adding the upgradeable card would prolong the lifespan of the PowerBook and protect the buyer's investment.

Lateralus · Jun 2, 2004, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by selowitch:
That's true. But adding the upgradeable card would prolong the lifespan of the PowerBook and protect the buyer's investment.

Which is exactly why Apple will be against it.

Will McGoonigle · Jun 2, 2004, 10:56 PM

Apple doesn't support PCI Express. So no ATI drivers at the mo.

selowitch · Jun 2, 2004, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Which is exactly why Apple will be against it.

Right!

Pierre B. · Jun 3, 2004, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Which is exactly why Apple will be against it.

I was about to say exactly the same thing. Apple offers complete computer packages, and wants customers to buy once in a while such complete packages, not parts. Unless some strong market force appears, I don't see Apple offering ever graphics chip upgrades for the Powerbooks. Integrated PCI express based chips in the Powerbooks is another story.

Drakino · Jun 3, 2004, 02:34 PM

Both NVidia and ATI are going this direction, and it's a push beyond their existing pin compatible chip upgrades. If Apple does not adopt this solution, it could mean longer to market times due to the longer times needed to integrate the graphics onto the board.

Apple uses miniPCI now, and they understand the value of standard connectors in laptops. I'm sure they are looking at these newer technologies now and providing feedback to both vendors.

(miniPCI is used for the Airport Express cards instead of a hacked up PCMCIA slot the older Airport used. They could have done something similar with a CardBus version of the slot, but they chose the more common standard these days.)

hldan · Jun 3, 2004, 04:59 PM

Ever heard of planned obsolesence? Every company does this. I know the AlienWare notebooks offer upgradable graphics solutions but their processors are not upgradable. As the games get more fierce and need more speed, upgrading the graphics cards won't make much difference. The graphics cards in all the current Aluminum PB's are more than satisfying for the most currently demanding games and should last through up and coming high tech gaming.

Will McGoonigle · Jun 3, 2004, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by hldan:
Ever heard of planned obsolesence? Every company does this. I know the AlienWare notebooks offer upgradable graphics solutions but their processors are not upgradable. As the games get more fierce and need more speed, upgrading the graphics cards won't make much difference. The graphics cards in all the current Aluminum PB's are more than satisfying for the most currently demanding games and should last through up and coming high tech gaming.

up and coming high tech gaming? Barely...

Will McGoonigle · Jun 3, 2004, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I was about to say exactly the same thing. Apple offers complete computer packages, and wants customers to buy once in a while such complete packages, not parts. Unless some strong market force appears, I don't see Apple offering ever graphics chip upgrades for the Powerbooks. Integrated PCI express based chips in the Powerbooks is another story.

They would have to dump PCI-X on Power Macs, move to PCI Express on Power Macs and then Powerbooks. They really can't have both.

hldan · Jun 3, 2004, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Will McGoonigle:
up and coming high tech gaming? Barely...

Barely? Why do you say that? My 17"PB 1.33Ghz runs UT 2004 very well and that's with the Radeon 9600 w/64Mb Vram. Why not up and coming high tech games?

Will McGoonigle · Jun 3, 2004, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by hldan:
Barely? Why do you say that? My 17"PB 1.33Ghz runs UT 2004 very well and that's with the Radeon 9600 w/64Mb Vram. Why not up and coming high tech games?

Because there aren't any up and coming high tech games for the Mac haha

Unless you count Doom III - which won't run as well as UT2004 on your book.

Link · Jun 3, 2004, 11:12 PM

Actually you CAN have both PCI-X and PCI Express. PCI-X is the latest revision of standard PCI while PCI express is an entirely new setup. Admittedly the size of PCIE x1 cards are small enough to shove into laptops.

The question is, if PCI-X is necessary.

hldan · 11:31 PM

Originally posted by Will McGoonigle:
Because there aren't any up and coming high tech games for the Mac haha

Unless you count Doom III - which won't run as well as UT2004 on your book.

I understand that you are probably correct in saying that there won't be much in upcoming high tech games since there is already limited game support for Macs, and I don't care much anyway since I use my XBOX for most games but I play UT2004 on my PB because I can play online for free but you say "Haha"? You sound like you are happy about there not being much in new Mac games. R U a PC user or a Macintosh hater?
Also for the record gaming has gotten better on the Mac. I'm not quite sure what planet you are from. More popular 3D games have been released lately.

RayX · 10:53 AM

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Link · Jun 3, 2004, 11:52 PM

I'll bring you into perspective. The 'crap video card' used inside the 17" powerbook/15" powerbook is the same crap video card used in Dell's XPS laptop. Apple cannot just slap a full speed/full power 9800/X800 into there.. but the mobile X800 might be a good option... ONCE it's available. (I'm sure it'll be in the next powerbook update).

Putting a desktop video card in a powerbook is as insane as putting a regular 970 + heatsink into a powerbook. These machines are one inch thick, and given the density of wiring and whatnot going into the machine, there's very little room for cooling/heatsinks. Expecting a 1" thick laptop to run reasonably warm with a radeon 9800 + g5 or g4 is too much. As said, Dell's 'gaming laptop' is about as powerful as the G4 powerbook (except for the processor which is definately a bit hulkier), but twice as thick.

That and keep in mind apple makes the only 17" laptop that weighs less than 9lbs.

hldan · 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Link:
I'll bring you into perspective. The 'crap video card' used inside the 17" powerbook/15" powerbook is the same crap video card used in Dell's XPS laptop. Apple cannot just slap a full speed/full power 9800/X800 into there.. but the mobile X800 might be a good option... ONCE it's available. (I'm sure it'll be in the next powerbook update).

Putting a desktop video card in a powerbook is as insane as putting a regular 970 + heatsink into a powerbook. These machines are one inch thick, and given the density of wiring and whatnot going into the machine, there's very little room for cooling/heatsinks. Expecting a 1" thick laptop to run reasonably warm with a radeon 9800 + g5 or g4 is too much. As said, Dell's 'gaming laptop' is about as powerful as the G4 powerbook (except for the processor which is definately a bit hulkier), but twice as thick.

That and keep in mind apple makes the only 17" laptop that weighs less than 9lbs.

You guys put too much emphasis on gaming. It's really not what a notebook computer is for. There are machines already that are specific for gaming such as Xbox, Playstation and Gamecube.Is something wrong with those?
The graphics solutions in notebooks are exceptional. Just the fact that any notebook can play games outside of chess should be exciting enough. Don't misunderstand me as I do play UT2004 on my Powerbook 17 as I mentioned earlier but to be so critical of graphics cards that are of exceptional quality and performance as the ones in the Powerbooks just shows some of you are expecting way too much and should be playing with dedicated game machines.

Link · Jun 5, 2004, 04:43 PM

lol I'm not focusing on gaming but bringing up the point apple has been pretty competetive with their updates...

To dump my opinion, apple would never make their products upgradable if they could help it, and this is no exception. They made it difficult to switch batteries on the ipod and they've made it difficult to so much as replace a processor on an MDD powermac, so what makes you think they'll make powerbooks easy to upgrade?

Generally once you can't upgrade the video they've got you by the balls. ESPECIALLY if you play games regularly, since having a good video card can be more important than having the best CPU.

No, I don't think apple will ever put upgradable anything in their powerbooks. If they could solder on the DIMMS without costing any more money to produce you can bet they'd do it.

hldan · Jun 5, 2004, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Link:
lol I'm not focusing on gaming but bringing up the point apple has been pretty competetive with their updates...

To dump my opinion, apple would never make their products upgradable if they could help it, and this is no exception. They made it difficult to switch batteries on the ipod and they've made it difficult to so much as replace a processor on an MDD powermac, so what makes you think they'll make powerbooks easy to upgrade?

Generally once you can't upgrade the video they've got you by the balls. ESPECIALLY if you play games regularly, since having a good video card can be more important than having the best CPU.

No, I don't think apple will ever put upgradable anything in their powerbooks. If they could solder on the DIMMS without costing any more money to produce you can bet they'd do it.

Agreed. Other than the G5 I wasn't aware that Apple stopped making it EZ on the PowerMacs to upgrade the processor.
I'm not suprised because so many dedicated MacUsers keep their Macs so long they tend to wait several years before getting something new. Many people still use the Lombards and Pismos and still on OS9 (for whatever reason, beats the hell outta me).
Apple wants people to upgrade machines more often as you really can't blame them since it's a business. Sony does the same thing year after year.

urrl78 · Jun 8, 2004, 01:23 PM

By the way, Sager has 256 MB ATI Radeon 9700 cards in their laptops now. C'mon Apple aren't we leading edge anymore? I can understand the Ghz lag but this?

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/n...oductType=8790

threestain · Jun 18, 2004, 09:04 AM

Does Radeon enabler make any difference with a powerbook? Just found this program, and it seems to be a good idea, but obviously it might not work on the laptop!

threestain · Jun 18, 2004, 09:05 AM

Does Radeon enabler make any difference with a powerbook? Just found this program, and it seems to be a good idea, but obviously it might not work on the laptop, though it does say it works on mobility chips.

I have a 2003 TiBook, so would always like to up the power