[retromac]

obviously an enormous problem worldwide. lots of misinformation going around. probably cause apple wont actually describe what the problems are. mine is an early ibook 500 dual usb, not included in the repair program.Crashed video. This seems the most common event, the video chip fails possibly from simply bad soldering to the board, one tip says if you press it firmly it will work!! Apples story is that they traced the bad manufacturing to a particular plant and these are the ones in the repair program. it is as clear as daylight that the problem occurs earlier and later than the included serial numbers. this would indicate a design fault, not a manufacturing fault. its time to put pressure on apple quickly to own up to the full problem. my posts at apple discusions are being removed in a day. have started a forum at
www.se-asia.com/ibook for collecting stories..please add yours..
also a petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/ibook1...tion-sign.html
im mad as hell cause they are using typical stonewalling and censorship...being told 'bad luck' by apple australia is the apple support i got..

[Nerozwei]

While I'm not by any means defending Apple, you should keep in mind that the early Dual USBs are already reaching the age of three years. There are bound to be problems with machines that old (especially if they've really been on the road instead of standing on a desk). The logic board problem with the later models was quite widespread (from what I've heard) so it was clearly a problem Apple had to deal with, but isolated incidents in older machines are, in my opinion, quite natural.

I've had my share of problems with the Dual USB design (backlight dead due to bad hinge design), but I hey.. If I wan't something with a lifetime guarantee, I'll get a Zippo

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by Nerozwei:
While I'm not by any means defending Apple, you should keep in mind that the early Dual USBs are already reaching the age of three years. There are bound to be problems with machines that old (especially if they've really been on the road instead of standing on a desk). The logic board problem with the later models was quite widespread (from what I've heard) so it was clearly a problem Apple had to deal with, but isolated incidents in older machines are, in my opinion, quite natural.

I've had my share of problems with the Dual USB design (backlight dead due to bad hinge design), but I hey.. If I wan't something with a lifetime guarantee, I'll get a Zippo

Hi,

are you working for Apple?

In a scientific lab some computers run for 10 years and more nonstop and without problems. I have even seen electronic products doing their job for 30 years.

If iBooks fail after three years the quality can only be called inferior. Under normal circumstances a three year lifetime for a notebook that is not drawn through the dirt should be no problem. And selling the machine and using it for another two years for low performance jobs should always be possible.

High quality hardware, like ibms, does this. And electronics does not fail under normal circumstances exept there is a physical damage, too high operating temperature or a build defect. If it runs well for some weeks and within specs it will normally run forever. The rest is bad design that I would not spend my money for.

[Nerozwei]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr.Michael:

are you working for Apple?

Nope

In a scientific lab some computers run for 10 years and more nonstop and without problems. I have even seen electronic products doing their job for 30 years.

Sure. Lab computers (as well as home computers) can last 'forever'. While you may have to swap physically wearing parts (fans, HDs, etc.) the electronics last a long time.

If iBooks fail after three years the quality can only be called inferior. Under normal circumstances a three year lifetime for a notebook that is not drawn through the dirt should be no problem. And selling the machine and using it for another two years for low performance jobs should always be possible.

I agree. The problem with notebooks is that while others handle their laptops carefully (maybe even too carefully ), some really do abuse them. I've seen people keep their laptops on the back seat their car and just go 'oops' if it tumbles somewhere under the front seat. My point is that different people have different expectations of what a laptop should handle. In that sense desktops have more 'stable' lifespans, excluding factory, etc. operating machines with dirt, vibrations, etc.

High quality hardware, like ibms, does this. And electronics does not fail under normal circumstances exept there is a physical damage, too high operating temperature or a build defect. If it runs well for some weeks and within specs it will normally run forever. The rest is bad design that I would not spend my money for.

Does every single unit out of, say, ten thousand IBMs on the road do this? As for normal circumstances, I'll quote Retromac's site: "I have travelled with a 3400CS, a Powerbook G3 and this ibook to very remote places on rough buses all through Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar". To me it sounds like this time he just got unlucky. From what I've read the logic board problem is not that common among the original Dual USBs. The later models were plagued by the issue and this is why Apple had to (not as if they wanted to) do something about it. I still think isolated incidents like this are acceptable, especially with the varying degrees of wear and tear laptops face. What do you expect, a ten year guarantee?

Please correct me if I'm wrong about the logic board problem being common among the 500s. As for the Dual USB design in general, I'm still pissed at Apple for doing nothing about the hinge problem. I did sign a petition or two, but apparently they were of no use.

[Monde]

While your model predates the iBook I presently use, it sounds as if you did run into the dreaded logic board failure. Mine failed about a year after purchase and Apple replaced the defective board. It was a week turnaround, but all is fine at this point.

The conventional wisdom on this logic board thing is that it associated with the dual USB G3 iBook models(like mine). I guess you just have a case of bad fortune with your laptop.

I do agree with the earlier post that the flaw that made these dual USB G3s fail is based on poor engineering (not design; they make IBMs look like the dog's breakfast) as the logic board was subjected to torque that caused at least one chip to separate from it's connections.

As for Apple longevity, a PM 6100 that I've since handed down to a sibling still works nicely with a sonnet accelerator and a upgraded HD. In fact, I'm typing this up on an 8600. I know many Mac users with legacy machines that just will not quit with almost a decade of daily service. By comparison. I've yet to see a PC owner who has gotten more than two and a half years out of their boxes. In fact, have you ever heard of a "legacy" PC? I haven't.

Apple has been fairly responsible about this issue, implementing a plan through which the affected models can be outfitted with a new board. I guess, at this point you have to find a good repair shop for yours.

[haze]

I have to agree that if a computer is failing after three years, that is not acceptable. Quality of that sort shouldn't be heralded. As for no PCs working after two and a half years, what ignorant BS. I actually have three running as we speak, all 3+ years. One is 5+ and one is going on 10+ running a linux server at this very moment. Macs are great, but their components are no more or no less reliable than a quality PC. Shoot most of the components are made by the same companies.

Is igorance bliss? I sure hope I never have to find out!

[TheZee]

I have to agree as well with the assessment that a product as high end as Mac should not be failing after three years. Unless, of course, it has been treated to adverse conditions. I own the Mac iBook G3 that are notorious for the logice board failing. Mine failed just before this issue went mainstream. Then it failed two times after that. I am convinced that it had to do with wherever the part was manufactured. Each time, however, the gems at AppleCare repaired the problem rather rapidly and with no hesitation. I do hope you have ApplCare Protection. Best investment I have ever made. The support is awesome. If you do not have the coverage, get it NOW !!! That could be the reason whay you are getting the run around. I have found the techs at AppleCare to be very knowledgable and supportive of issues that may arise with anything from hardware issues to software issues. Get it, use it, love it !!!
Peace,