Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Sudogenic · Jun 28, 2004, 08:37 AM

I realize that the Powerbook G5 is a long way from being released, and we'll probably see another iteration of the Powerbook G4 line, beforehand.

But whenever Apple releases a new product, especially in the Powerbook range, there seems to always be a few kinks to work out in the first revision.

So as a consumer, I would like to see them stick with the current Aluminium design of the Powerbook range - It seems to be pretty much perfect to me, with regards to strength, durability, scratches, etc.

Don't get me wrong though - I'm sure Apple would make an incredible design for the G5 range of Powerbooks, if they chose to. But given the apparent difficulties in bringing a portable version of the G5 into a Powerbook, I think it would be preferable to concentrate on doing that and keep the rest of the tried, tested and improved components from the Aluminium G4 Powerbook.

escher · Jun 28, 2004, 09:42 AM

Yes, of course!

Lancer409 · Jun 28, 2004, 09:53 AM

Bingo, not to mention all of us G4 users can somewhat pass our machines off as G5's (just dont let them see the hinge!) muahaha .. I wonder what sweet design they have in mind.

Voch · Jun 28, 2004, 10:28 AM

Could they find a way to go back to Titanium?

**ducks for cover as several scratched TiBooks with broken hinges are thrown at my noggin**

I like the AlBooks but haven't taken the plunge yet (my TiBook is still "perfect"). I like the current form factor and look is fantastic. What else can Apple come up with (be realistic)?

Voch

milhous · Jun 28, 2004, 10:37 AM

as long as they don't go back to completely using plastic is fine with me. now i like using my pismo as it's the only modern mac i have at the moment, but what i don't like is the squeaking, cracking and flexing of plastic cases.

when i'm ready to buy another notebook in a year or two, the case better be made out of some form of metal. or else...

KP* · Jun 28, 2004, 10:49 AM

I have the Rev A Al15 which is far from perfect in its casing, so I can understand why it might be wise not to mess around with the design again, and risk another batch of PBs being defective.

OTOH, I think a G5 PB deserves a new look. Also, for technical reasons they might need to redesign the case to accomodate the G5 and any cooling systems it needs. Even if they kept the same look, if the innards have to change, you've already opened the door to defects (i.e. the 17" Albook screen section looks the same as the 15" but the 15's was defective because of the way the screen was mounted). So if anything inside is going to change, which of course it will, then there's already a chance to have something go wrong, so a cosmetic change is not that much of a risk.

I think the Albook is brilliantly designed, but I wouldn't mind seeing what else the folks at Apple can come up with. I won't even speculate on what that might be, since they have never come up with a design that is anything I could have immagined.

SafariX · Jun 28, 2004, 11:22 AM

I have a Ti, and like tha Albooks, but their shell doesnt do much to excite my aesthetic senses. It is *nice*, but is just very blah. If you stuck a generic PC vendor logo on it, no-one might be the wiser. I still think the Ti and Wallstreet/Pismo shape for the day were the hottest notebooks around.

Ryan1524 · Jun 28, 2004, 11:22 AM

maybe black??

black anodized, that'd be great. although somewhat bordering on looking too much like a Thinkpad.

NYCFarmboy · Jun 28, 2004, 11:28 AM

yes.. I do not like the metal case.

I would prefer a black plastic similar to the original white ibook (not the cheap plastic used on ibooks now)...but BLACK.

I have a 1.3 g4 12" powerbook..its ok....the screen is very poor quality though ..hope they fix that.

I don't like the aluminum just because it is cold to the touch...then they get too hot... ..the ibooks are much nicer and friendlier to hold.

cszar2001 · Jun 28, 2004, 11:40 AM

The current line of PB`s has the best design of any Laptop available.
If they change something only small things will be affected: different keyboard, ...

Any to keep up with the mini IPods: different colors would be nice.
Someone posted a picture of his blue (!) PB - nice look.

Simon · Jun 29, 2004, 04:03 AM

No, I want to see them work on the inside. The externals are OK. I'd like a G5, top of the line mobile GPU, 8x SD, big and fast HDs, and all of it equally on all models. No 12" crippling please. Bigger shouldn't necessarily mean better.

Powaqqatsi · Jun 29, 2004, 05:51 AM

Yeah I would like to see all the connection on the back again like on my TiBook. It looks really ugly when an AlBook is sitting on a desk with all the cables comming out of the side. Especially with a 17" which is used as a desktop by a lot of people.

Cliff_O · Jun 29, 2004, 09:30 AM

Something in a material that is a poor conductor of heat would be nice. Carbon fiber would likely be a good choice.

iREZ · Jun 29, 2004, 10:25 AM

I just hope that it's somehow cooler then the one's out now. Although I have the 12", and I know they're dubbed the "firebooks", seems that all of the Powerbooks are a little on the warm side. I'd love it if the new Powerbook revisions, had the plus sides that the iBook has, lots cooler (literally), better Airport reception, and a longer battery life (I can't stand the fact that the 12" iBook outlasts my 12" PB). I doubt any of these things will be fixed but here's hoping.

Crusoe · Jun 30, 2004, 08:40 AM

I don't think we or Apple have a choice. Apple is going to have to do some slick mixing of heat sinks and liquid cooling to drop even a 1.8 in there so I think they'll get a bit thicker.

So for material, Aluminum is here to stay methinks but a ceramic similar to that used in bicycle wheels may be an alternative. I think the 17" will get a thick as the 15, the 15 as the 12 and the 12 will remain a G4.

What I would like is a pivoting or pivoted keyboard so it's a bit more ergo, certainly room on the 17" for this. Perhaps the hinge will lift the powerbook up to allow better airflow and a more comfortable typing position. Detachable display.

SplijinX · Jun 30, 2004, 11:56 AM

I'm guessing the material will stay the same since the PowerMacs, iPod mini and the new displays all aluminum. Not exactly sure how much different they can make it, but then again Apple manages to suprise people with that sort of thing.

Would definitely like to see a 13.3" widescreen or something along those lines. Love the portability of the 12", but could benfit by being able to place documents side by side or watch movies in that format.

Kenstee · Jun 30, 2004, 06:47 PM

I think the thermal issues with Al will not accomodate a G5. Personally, I don't care what they make it out of - I'd prefer a black or silver composite. But, I definitely will be a RevB buyer of the G5. I want this technology to be proven before I take the plunge

GoCats · Jun 30, 2004, 06:51 PM

The only thing I wish they'd fix is the sharp edges! After a few hours of work it looks like I have a tried my wrists with the back-end of a butter knife! Other than that, the Albooks are amazing.

Oh, I wouldn't mind if they moved the keyboard over and put a keypad on the right.

k

simonjames · Jun 30, 2004, 09:03 PM

they need to put big raised coloured stickers saying what processor is inside and "powered by OSX" and the word Apple in different pitches and colours - $hit like that

I am happy with the current design. My 17" is the best laptop on the market. Not even Sony comes anywhere near.

teknopimp · Jun 30, 2004, 09:17 PM

carbon fiber would be nice

urrl78 · 09:41 PM

Metal casing is a divine, unique idea and should stay. I will never go back to creaky plastic. There needs to be rubber stops on the 17" to keep the LCD corners and edges from making marks on the handrest area. Other than that I cannot imagine greatly improving the beautiful design. It is structurally sound and other than what I've mentioned I hope it stays around for a long time. Perhaps anodized shell colors would be even more attractive. Perhaps the magnetic latches should be replaced by a different snap shut mechanical device that produces less clearance, even making the seal between LCD and handrest water resistant. Just a thought...

rag on a muffin · Jun 30, 2004, 09:49 PM

12" backlit keyboards anyone?

how about a hinge that i will film right now, it will be posted soon.

TailsToo · Jun 30, 2004, 09:51 PM

I don't care about what they look like, I just want one!

That said, I agree about the numeric keypad. If the 17" had one. I'd buy it!

rag on a muffin · Jun 30, 2004, 11:15 PM

ok, im finished the file is below:

it is 440 k for 10 seconds... sorry, im really bad at compressing stuff, but better than 35 megs

you can get it here:

http://www.bardorodeo.com/dillon/hinge.mov

iREZ · Jun 30, 2004, 11:39 PM

That is a fantastic idea, I hope Apple incorporates something like that. You got some brain on you Rag.

Ryan1524 · Jun 30, 2004, 11:54 PM

uh, i don't get it, do you mean that piece of paper is the new hinge?? looks a bit...fragile, isn't it?? althou i'd imagine it might be able to give full 180' angle on the screen.

MrForgetable · Jul 1, 2004, 12:07 AM

Carbon Fiber

TailsToo · Jul 1, 2004, 12:41 AM

I don't know of many that are having problems with the new iBook like hinge. Why fix it if it's not broken??

iREZ · Jul 1, 2004, 10:31 AM

It's the same thing as the hinge right now, just that when you open the screen, a piece would raise your PB in the rear as to keep the bottom of the 'book cool, great idea but I think it would rock from left to right.

macaddict0001 · Jul 1, 2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by iREZ:
I just hope that it's somehow cooler then the one's out now. Although I have the 12", and I know they're dubbed the "firebooks", seems that all of the Powerbooks are a little on the warm side. I'd love it if the new Powerbook revisions, had the plus sides that the iBook has, lots cooler (literally), better Airport reception, and a longer battery life (I can't stand the fact that the 12" iBook outlasts my 12" PB). I doubt any of these things will be fixed but here's hoping.

the power books run cooler than the ibooks because their metal the metal lets heat through so they run cooler but you can feel the heat coming through the casing and the metal halts the airport because it relies on radio signals.

iREZ · Jul 1, 2004, 01:22 PM

I know why they're hot, I just would like them to come out with a way to keep the computer cool on the inside and outside.

-Q- · Jul 1, 2004, 01:36 PM

I'd like to see a new case design simply b/c the aluminum's just don't do it for me. Like said previously, they're nice, but I don't find them that great. Not like when I first saw a TiBook.

Targon · Jul 1, 2004, 08:26 PM

No redesign needed. Just make the trackpad button deeper so it is much close to the edge of the machine. As a former Pismo user im forever touching the chassis near the edge an always missing the button. Hard to get used to fondling for the small button.

Aside from that the design is perfect.

macaddict0001 · Jul 1, 2004, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by iREZ:
I know why they're hot, I just would like them to come out with a way to keep the computer cool on the inside and outside.

well if they had nine fans in their they could have a plastic case and avoid overheating and your powerbook would fly or if you had a valve that directed it downwards it would hover

no wait I have just been informed that the aerodynamics of the inside of a powerbook will not allow for that

wuzup101 · Jul 2, 2004, 01:37 AM

The only thing that really bothers me is the fact that you can't get certain things on the 12" that you can on the bigger books. This was one of the biggest turnoffs for me origionally. I'll be ordering a PB/iBook sometime soon; still undecided in which. I would have bought one last year but it pissed me off that they crippeled the smaller 12" that I was interested in. I wanted something portable, I would have gladly paid for the performance!

I'd like to see something like anoed gunmetal cases or something... just to distinguish them for current G4s

Randman · Jul 2, 2004, 01:56 AM

I doubt if the first version of a G5 PB will come in a 12.

urban · Jul 2, 2004, 02:59 AM

I would want another white notebook.

A white notebook is much more distinct from the rest.

Simon · Jul 2, 2004, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by Randman:
I doubt if the first version of a G5 PB will come in a 12.

But they need to put a G5 in there. The 12" has to somehow justify its price being so much higher than the iBook's. They already had that problem with the rev A 12" and by the time the G5 PowerBook comes along the iBook will be in the highest G4 speeds possible. I doubt they'd want to be in the same situation again.

MilkmanDan · Jul 2, 2004, 11:54 AM

I doubt we'll see a G5 Powerbook for a while. Issues with power consumption and the availability of the G5 chip are probably the reason. With PC laptops getting (or so they say) up to 8 hours of battery life (whatever) Apple will be hard pressed to improve Powerbook battery life. Also, if IBM can hardly keep up with Tower G5 chips, what makes you think laptop G5 chips will be available?

I love my 12in, and would love to se a G5 12in with a backlit keyboard. But thats not going to happen for at least a year. A backlit keyboard would be nice, but I always have found it more off a novelty then useful. Kind of a 'way cool' factor thing. Can't say I'm missing it very much on this model.

kafoochy · Jul 2, 2004, 12:33 PM

Besides the fact, that I think Apple should try and differentiate the PBG4 from the PBG5, I've been pretty disappointed with my 15" AluPB G4. I bought a 1.25Ghz not long after they came out and had it replaced a month or so ago with a 1.5Ghz by Apple because of all of the problems I had with my original. Last year, my school replaced many of the computers on campus with either MDDs or 1Ghz TiPBs. I really liked the TiPBs. When I bought my 15" AluPB, it was larger in every dimension than the Ti book, the battery was the smallest of every Apple laptop except the 12" G3 iBook, and it had a very rough feel to it. I immediately noticed the the top bezel around the keyboard on my new Alu book has sharp-edged cutoffs as opposed to the Ti books rounded and more finished-looking edges. The sharp cut-off on the front edge of the palm-rest can also be very uncomfortable with extended bouts of typing. The screen bow when closed doesn't lead to a high quality impression, nor does how much the screen flexes when closing it. I had a latch issue with my first AluBook which was related to the design of the case, in that it wouldn't stay closed. The other case related issue that I had and which ultimately led to the computer being replaced was the keyboard buckling, not staying attached the frame underneath and the backlight failing which I had replaced 4 times.

I held out for the AluBook because I wanted Airport Extreme, Bluetooth and more expandable memory in the 15" form-factor that the Ti book didn't offer. It's not a polished design however and I hope Apple can improve the PBG5. I can see a darker anodization, although I think black is a little much. I do believe that even though my computer bottom can become too hot to touch, metal is the best material to use, although I'm worried about how easily deformable the aluminum is. Smoother, more user-friendly edges would be nice, a slight decrease in overall size including a smaller bezel around the screen like the TiBooks (the thicker bezel around the Alu's screen just isn't as "sexy" as the TiBook). I baby my AluBook because it just doesn't feel very rugged; now if only Apple could make the PBG5 as small, rugged, and attractive as the IBM ThinkPad T40, I'd be impressed. The T40 shows that you can have a no-compromise laptop, which is what the PowerBook line should be.

Randman · 12:44 PM

http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/Web...y?newsID=12184

As you already know Apple has been hard at work developing large screens. Apple has spend a ton investing in this technology so they plan to continue to capitalize on it.

Also what most do not know, is that Apple has also invested in thin slim hard drives and DVD/CD-R drive technology. According to well-placed PowerPage sources the next PowerBooks will be considerably thinner. Currently the G5 chip production is the limiting factor in portable production. Apple cannot get enough low power chips to use in the portable form factor. Current yields only provide Apple with chips that burn 30 watts which is too much power consumption for laptops with batteries, and they are running far too hot.

Think Thin.

wuzup101 · Jul 2, 2004, 12:41 PM

^^^^ definitely agree with kafoochy.

I'd like to see them integrate some more functionality to the new PBs. One thing I didn't think about would be a card reader for compact flash and other formats... even in the 12" variety.

BTW... please don't say that this can't be done... as there are PC notebooks that are smaller than the 12" and still integrate 6 different card readers...

Expansion card slots and firewire 800 on the 12" would also be much appreciated... as would a normal DVI-out w/o an adapter... and maybe move all the pluggs to the rear... or atleast some of them!

macaddict0001 · Jul 2, 2004, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Simon:
But they need to put a G5 in there. The 12" has to somehow justify its price being so much higher than the iBook's. They already had that problem with the rev A 12" and by the time the G5 PowerBook comes along the iBook will be in the highest G4 speeds possible. I doubt they'd want to be in the same situation again.

apple has always had overpriced high end lines like the performa 5200 cd and the powermac 6300/75 the powermac just had built in ethernet and airport and firewire thowe were the only differences.

macaddict0001 · Jul 2, 2004, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
I doubt we'll see a G5 Powerbook for a while. Issues with power consumption and the availability of the G5 chip are probably the reason. With PC laptops getting (or so they say) up to 8 hours of battery life (whatever) Apple will be hard pressed to improve Powerbook battery life. Also, if IBM can hardly keep up with Tower G5 chips, what makes you think laptop G5 chips will be available?

I love my 12in, and would love to se a G5 12in with a backlit keyboard. But thats not going to happen for at least a year. A backlit keyboard would be nice, but I always have found it more off a novelty then useful. Kind of a 'way cool' factor thing. Can't say I'm missing it very much on this model.

they only get 8 hours if you have two batterys(i think at least on most)false advertising it is you never get more than 4 hours on a pc.

kafoochy · Jul 2, 2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
they only get 8 hours if you have two batterys(i think at least on most)false advertising it is you never get more than 4 hours on a pc.

I'd be happy with 4 hrs!!! My original 1.25Ghz AluPB only got 2:05 while watching a DVD and I couldn't finish Harry Potter! It's not good when you can't even watch a standard full-length DVD. This was with Airport off, Bluetooth off, keyboard backlight off, power/CPU settings to "reduced" and the screen brightness turned down to almost nothing. This is almost exactly the same time that MacWorld got (2:04) in their first review of the 1.25Ghz PB. The new 1.33Ghz apparently got 2:14, probably because of the larger capacity batter, but I don't expect to get any better battery life with my replacement 1.5Ghz. Sure, there are other things besides watching DVDs, but I rarely get 3hrs and I'd prefer not to strain my eyes and turn the screen backlight down to nothing. Not to mention in some bright situations, you need the screen brightness. The outgoing TiBook had a 60-watt hour battery and the latest gen 15" has only a 50-watt hour battery (amusingly, the same capacity as the 12" PB). The first Alu 15" only had a 46 or 47-watt hour battery. From looking at the bottom of the computer it looks like the placement of the ports on the sides because of the rear-hinged screen constricts the physical size of the battery in the 15" Alubook compared to the Tibook. Maybe its asking to much to be able to watch an ENTIRE DVD on one battery charge, but I think it should be a goal for Apple.

cdhostage · Jul 2, 2004, 02:07 PM

I want longer battery life and a thicker, more durable case than is currently offerred by the Powerbook G4s. I've got a 15Al right now, and I like the way heat is vented from the case - up the front of the screen rather than into the metal of the lower case.

Apple is currently supporting the thin, light style of laptops, however. I've been able to use a PC laptop in 2003 (a Compaq) for typing in Word and playing music simultaneously for more than four hours. My Powerbook gets about 2 hours and fifteen minutes at the same pace. Yes, yes, I enabled as many power-saving features as I could on each computer.

Now, as for durability - I'm not looking for something to drop off my balcony, but my school's iBooks feel much more solid and don't scratch easily. The aluminum of the powerbook seems to scratch simply by moving it along a countertop.

MilkmanDan · Jul 2, 2004, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
they only get 8 hours if you have two batterys(i think at least on most)false advertising it is you never get more than 4 hours on a pc.

The best part about my powerbook is that one of my roomies got his PC laptop replaced by Best Buy earlier this year. Its about twice the thickness of my 12in, and gets about 35 minutes of battery life. Plus, it takes about 4 minutes to start up. We caz we all hear it start up, because the fan sounds like a 747. Thanks Sony!

Did I mention the fact that its LCD flickers for a couple of minutes when it changed resolutions?

wuzup101 · Jul 2, 2004, 10:41 PM

Longer batt life would definitely be nice. I would gladly take an extra few ounces of weight to get an additional 1hr of batt life. There are definitely some PCs that spank the PB in terms of batt life. The IBM thinkpad T40-T42 comes to mind... as does the fugi 5020 if you want a smaller book...

Most PCs don't get this great of batt life. However Intel has done some great things with their Pentium M as far as batt life is concerned. I have to say that the ones in the same price bracket as the all mighty PBs usually get the same or better batt life...

moep · Jul 4, 2004, 05:30 AM

Optically, I'm fine with the current PB-design and wouldn't want to have it changed. I like the sleek understatement-look.

However, I would want apple to make the G5-PB more rugged - not sure how, but one way would be to use either thicker material (heavier) or higher grade aluminium (which would be pricier - like 7075, although I'm not sure what the G4-PB's skin is made of)

macaddict0001 · Jul 4, 2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by kafoochy:
I'd be happy with 4 hrs!!! My original 1.25Ghz AluPB only got 2:05 while watching a DVD and I couldn't finish Harry Potter! It's not good when you can't even watch a standard full-length DVD. This was with Airport off, Bluetooth off, keyboard backlight off, power/CPU settings to "reduced" and the screen brightness turned down to almost nothing. This is almost exactly the same time that MacWorld got (2:04) in their first review of the 1.25Ghz PB. The new 1.33Ghz apparently got 2:14, probably because of the larger capacity batter, but I don't expect to get any better battery life with my replacement 1.5Ghz. Sure, there are other things besides watching DVDs, but I rarely get 3hrs and I'd prefer not to strain my eyes and turn the screen backlight down to nothing. Not to mention in some bright situations, you need the screen brightness. The outgoing TiBook had a 60-watt hour battery and the latest gen 15" has only a 50-watt hour battery (amusingly, the same capacity as the 12" PB). The first Alu 15" only had a 46 or 47-watt hour battery. From looking at the bottom of the computer it looks like the placement of the ports on the sides because of the rear-hinged screen constricts the physical size of the battery in the 15" Alubook compared to the Tibook. Maybe its asking to much to be able to watch an ENTIRE DVD on one battery charge, but I think it should be a goal for Apple.

no I meant four hours on things like text edit. even the fujitsu life book only gets 3 hours while watchinng a dvd you could kill finder and spin down hard disk when possible also disconnecting external devices will help.