[Brian Campbell]

I've been a mostly satisfied Apple user for years. However, i'm getting very tired of their poor quality control (failed hard drive and superdrive on my powerbook in 1st 6 months, failed hard drives on 3 of the office powerbooks - all BRAND NEW!, and bad memory on one powerbook) and horrible customer service. Now i'm one of the very angry people suffering from FireWire issues on my laptop. View this thread to see more....

http://tinyurl.name/?f=7Z4R

So, i'm collecting names. If you've had this problem or know anyone that has, email me at brian@truvisio.com. If i get enough names and apple keeps its head buried in the sand on this issue I plan to initiate a class action suit against apple.

[an0therdumbsn]

Wow i really hope this problem only pertains to the TiPB's and not the AiBooks.... From that link it seems to be a really problem, i would have thought it would be cheaper for apple just to suck it up and repapair the messed up ports rather than even risk a class action being filed against them.
Apple sure has been sued alot in the last few years...

[Brian Campbell]

Originally posted by an0therdumbsn:
Wow i really hope this problem only pertains to the TiPB's and not the AiBooks....

Amen to that...however the hard drive failures i've mentioned seem to apply to AiBooks too. whatever you do, have a backup plan. At one point i had both my internal drive and my external firewired backup drive die at the same time. The data was recovered from the powerbook (thank all that is holy!). We just ordered an AiBook for the office. I'm crossing my fingers we don't have to go through all this with that one as well

[Macola]

I'd like to read your report as I've had Firewire problems with both a TiBook and AlBook, but your link is broken. Please post a summary here if you can.

[urrl78]

All three of my Ti books had good firewire. A hard drive died but I REALLY suspect Norton's Disk Doctor in that case. Both of my 17" Powerbooks, the 1 Ghz and the 1.5 Ghz have good firewire. I noticed since I bought a second Canon GL2 camcorder that the firewire 800 exterior HD needs to be disconnected in order for the cams firewire to work and capture video. It caused major problems; I even feared it damaged my Powerbook; it would not even boot for a while I think. This is not the case on my first GL2; it works with both firewires attached. So it must be firmware in the second identical GL2 that caused the problem. I don't use it to capture video any more.

My 1st 17" 1 Ghz Powerbook HD, which I had for a year was good. My present 1.5 Ghz 17" HD works well also but its only a month old.

Question: was your firewire working when you first bought the laptops?

[Brian Campbell]

Question: was your firewire working when you first bought the laptops? [/B]

Yup! I was running nearly 400GB of external storage on my main laptop via 3 external drives. About a week ago they started to disappear at start up one by one. Now, no matter what i do i can't get them to work...

[kafoochy]

Originally posted by Brian Campbell:
Yup! I was running nearly 400GB of external storage on my main laptop via 3 external drives. About a week ago they started to disappear at start up one by one. Now, no matter what i do i can't get them to work...

Goodluck with that. As someone else stated, the link above is broken. I've not noticed any firewire problems, and we have hundreds of 1Ghz TiPBs here at our school, including two labs with 50 or so computers running FCP. I've brought my FW HDs many times to use with these computers and not had any problems. I've had a 1.25Ghz and 1.5Ghz Alubook and the firewire 400 and firewire 800 work fine with my two external HDs as well as iPod. I find it hard to believe that out of the hundreds of Powerbooks (and a handful of MDD G4s) we have, they're fine and you're having so many problems. In regards to customer service, it has been nothing but exemplary, or at least in regards to failures that are obviously hardware and not user-error. I can say that this Powerbook is the first computer that I really had to have repaired by Apple and it was in to the shop about five times, but they then replaced my computer with a brandnew 1.5Ghz AluPB, basically because the keyboard backlight wasn't functioning. The keyboard backlight! A non-essential feature!! Apple support has been incredible and I couldn't have asked for more. It took a few phone calls, the right attitude, and an actual problem, but everyone I talked to was very helpful. I expected to have more problems with a laptop (this was my first) than a desktop. My brother's dual-G5 and 20" Cinema display have been flawless, as was my 5+ yr old B&W G3. I just wish the link you put above was working and I hope that your cause is justified. I cannot make a judgment without being informed, but your petition seems somewhat misguided.

[Brian Campbell]

I cannot make a judgment without being informed, but your petition seems somewhat misguided. [/B]

Correct, you aren't in any place to judge.

Here's a new link. Hopefully this one works.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/we...El.0@.5997604f

[madmacgames]

Originally posted by Brian Campbell:
However, i'm getting very tired of their poor quality control (failed hard drive and superdrive on my powerbook in 1st 6 months, failed hard drives on 3 of the office powerbooks - all BRAND NEW!, and bad memory on one powerbook)

so you are basically angry because volatile technologies are prone to failure?

[Brian Campbell]

Originally posted by madmacgames:
so you are basically angry because volatile technologies are prone to failure?

just click on the link and do the math

[kafoochy]

Originally posted by Brian Campbell:
Correct, you aren't in any place to judge.

Here's a new link. Hopefully this one works.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/we...El.0@.5997604f

Actually, I am in a very good place to judge. I work with IT with a large university, and have experienced none of the problems you've had with hundreds of machines. I had never even heard of it. The problem sounds eerily similar to Apple's problem with iBook logic boards except that CNet and other major news organizations were reporting thousands of people affected. This firewire problem apparently has been ongoing, yet garners handfuls of affected people, not thousands. Yes you're frustrated, but it doesn't even sound like you have a cause for the problem. Some people report turning their computers off, waiting and then firewire will work when restarted. That won't work for others. eMacs, Ti Powerbooks, Alu Powerbooks apparently are all having problems and yet there is no pattern. With the iBooks, there was an obvious hardware failure, and electrical engineers were able to say what was causing the problem. You cannot say so. Why is it so sporadic? Do you have a hardware test CD and have you used it? I'm not trying to be rude, just say that you have little to go on for a class-action lawsuit. From what I have read, the problem sounds extremely frustrating. I'd hate to loose access to my two external FW drives as well as iPod. I just think you should do more research.

[kafoochy]

One last thing. When I first bought my 1.25Ghz AluPB, my dad pleeded for me to buy AppleCare. He is an authorized Apple computer tech and basically said what madmacgames said which is that computers can fail, but laptops are much more prone towards doing so. From the rough percentages that my dad has given me (and not just for Apple, but for IBM and Dell) I was almost expecting my Powerbook (my first laptop) to have problems. My original AluPB was repaired five times and had every part in the computer replaced except the hard drive and optical drive. My positive attitude was what prevented a breakdown of communication with Apple, and I was kindly given a new 1.5Ghz replacement not too long ago. The keyboard is still slightly buckled and I have expressed disappointment with the design of the AluBook. I'm not surprised that things have gone wrong and I just get them fixed. These are mass-produced computers. Even if they are the Bang-Olfsen of the computer world, you're still going to have problems. I wouldn't buy a laptop without an extended warranty. I suggest if you're having problems that you make it a point to get AppleCare, and keep a good attitude as its done wonders with me and Apple reps.

[Brian Campbell]

Originally posted by kafoochy:
Actually, I am in a very good place to judge. I work with IT with a large university, and have experienced none of the problems you've had with hundreds of machines...

Sorry for being rude, and you're right you're in a good place to judge. However, so am I. I'm currently a designer, but my background is also in support at a university. I have extensive knowledge of Macintosh systems and their maintenance. In order to try to solve these problems I've run nearly every diagnostic software package available. I've also tried every conceivable technique including swapping cables, zapping pRAM, powering down (both laptop & drives), reinstalling system software...i'd keep going but i'm getting exhausted thinking about it. I fail to believe this is as small a problem as you mention simply because everyone i know has been afflicted by it whether i had my hands in the setup/maintenance of their machine or not (so i know it's not my fault) I was starting to think i was going mad then found endless postings on Apple's forums with other people exhibiting the exact same issues. The fact is this. Apple's response is always the same. "Buy a new motherboard from us". Bullsh!t.

[kafoochy]

Originally posted by Brian Campbell:
Sorry for being rude, and you're right you're in a good place to judge. However, so am I. I'm currently a designer, but my background is also in support at a university. I have extensive knowledge of Macintosh systems and their maintenance. In order to try to solve these problems I've run nearly every diagnostic software package available. I've also tried every conceivable technique including swapping cables, zapping pRAM, powering down (both laptop & drives), reinstalling system software...i'd keep going but i'm getting exhausted thinking about it. I fail to believe this is as small a problem as you mention simply because everyone i know has been afflicted by it whether i had my hands in the setup/maintenance of their machine or not (so i know it's not my fault) I was starting to think i was going mad then found endless postings on Apple's forums with other people exhibiting the exact same issues. The fact is this. Apple's response is always the same. "Buy a new motherboard from us". Bullsh!t.

It is ironic that the only parts I didn't have replaced on my first AluBook were the same parts that failed on yours. Optical drives can be sensitive but hard drives shouldn't fail within the first 6-months. For that you should blame the hard drive manufacturer, not Apple. Is your computer still under the 1yr warranty? If not, have you considered a third-party extended warranty and then making a claim to have the logic board replaced?

It sounds like you are upset with Apple's customer support, but if the logic board needs to be replaced whether by design, failure, or user-error does it seem so strange for Apple to ask you to buy a new logic board (assuming you're out of warranty)? Even if it is a design flaw, the issue needs to be more exposed (AluPB's white spots and the iBook incident both made the news sites). I really haven't seen this with our 1yr old TiPBs. I was fortunate/unfortunate enough to actually see a friends iBook die in her hands. My attempts to zap the PRAM, etc to resuscitate it were futile. As much as I'd like to comment on the breadth of the iBook logic board failures vs. the current firewire issue, even if the numbers of failures were the same many of the firewire failures would go unnoticed by users that don't or rarely use FW. It also does not prevent the basic functions of the computer, so it is more likely to cause frustration rather than anger and outrage (although I'm sure you feel this way as well) and gives Apple less of a reason to answer/respond to the problem. Sign some petitions, possibly start a class-action, but try and find someone that can name the cause of the problem. Maybe with the iBooks it was easier, but right now, even with the number of people that you have with the same problem, you have to see that out of hundreds of thousands of these computers which were made and sold, it is too easy for Apple to chalk-up the problems to usual hardware failure.

I've never had a problem with Apple's service reps and customer service people. Where I think the problem lies, is in the official noncommittal attitude from anyone at Apple. With the little PR experience I have: Apple's closed-mouth attitude and their unwillingness to admit that Apple products can fail just like any others is disgusting. Not that I can blame Steve Jobs for this, but the stories that you hear about his resolution, have both pulled the company in the right direction and kept the entire company under lock-and-key.

Sorry, went slightly off topic there. As much as I love Apple products and excellent support, it is the corporate attitude's inability to accept blame and react that frustrates and saddens me. Goodluck!

[urrl78]

Do any of your hard drives or other peripherals work by themselves without the hub after switching on your computer?

If so then try a combination of two at a time. The idea is perhaps like my GL2, you have one peripheral that is in conflict with another. The faulty peripheral, like my GL2 will work fine by itself, but when used with another firewire unit like a HD NEITHER will work. It is like one insists on hogging the firewire channel for itself.

Are you able to do this? You may have some days when everything is working fine because you are simply not using that particular combination of devices at that time. You must pinpoint the offending hardware. In fact I did read a thread where a Lacie Firewire drive WAS hogging the firewire ports. If there is a Lacie forum you might check it out. Like I said I would never use that GL2 again with a combo firewire arrangement; I feel it might even damage my Powerbook. But it works fine by itself. You really should check this lead out if you are able, even if it may take another reformat to get you computer working again.

I see on this thread also that others have received brand new 1.5 Ghz replacement Powerbooks and would just like to mention that I did to. My 1 year old 17" screen had an intermittant problem and after a third unsuccessful repair Apple issued my a 1.5 Ghz new 17". I did not even ask fo one; the Genius at the store wrote me up for one. I did not ask to be upgraded to a 1.5 Ghz. They did that anyway.

Can you tell us exactly which firewire items you are using also?

[Brian Campbell]

Originally posted by urrl78:
Do any of your hard drives or other peripherals work by themselves without the hub after switching on your computer?

I did try that...thanks for the suggestion

It seems regardless of how many devices are connect nothing comes up anymore. everything just disappeared...and it seems permanent, even after shutting down completely and even letting things sit for a while. Nothing i do seems to have any effect

[urrl78]

If you are able to get to an Apple store that would be the way to go. I never use phone support anymore. It pays to have an Apple Genius witness what is going on, be on your side and then speak for you. Besides all of this I have learned to have them record the exterior condition of the laptop. When it returns, it returns to THEM, not me. Then I cannot be doubted or suspected of anything; if it comes back damaged it will be sent back. Is your Powerbook still under warranty?

[Brian Campbell]

Originally posted by urrl78:
If you are able to get to an Apple store that would be the way to go. .... When it returns, it returns to THEM, not me. Then I cannot be doubted or suspected of anything; if it comes back damaged it will be sent back. Is your Powerbook still under warranty?

Good point, i keep hearing that same message from people. "Take it to the Apple Store!!!" I'm lucky enough to be in Denver only a mile or two from one of the local Apple Stores. I do still have a warranty for my personal machine. I just loathe the idea of giving it up for a week when i have umpteen deadlines to contend with!

[urrl78]

Please, please do that and don't let it leave your hands without letting them get a record of the exterior condition first. This lets them be responsible even if it was damaged in the mail.

Have patience and keep us posted.

-Bill

[kafoochy]

Originally posted by urrl78:
Please, please do that and don't let it leave your hands without letting them get a record of the exterior condition first. This lets them be responsible even if it was damaged in the mail.

Have patience and keep us posted.

-Bill

Since you've said the computer is under warranty, I'd suggest the same thing. I always took my computer to the Apple Store (I'm lucky to have four Apple Stores within an hour of me and one 15min from my house) and had it shipped back there when done so that I could inspect their service (or lack thereof). The most time I've had to deal without the PB was 10 days when I originally had my screen replaced because the part was on order. If the computer isn't repaired in-store, it is shipping out and back via next-day mail. The shortest time I've been without my computer is 2.5 days! They are usually very quick. When I had my logic-board replaced (because the bluetooth failed) it was looking to take a while, but I called, said I needed it for an important conference/meeting and was bumped up in the list and picked up the computer the next evening. Just know that the Genius may ask to keep the computer overnight for testing before it is even sent out, assuming that it will be, as I don't think the stores can yet replace the system board, although I know they are increasing their ability to repair units in-store. Also, my Apple store is notoriously bad/tardy at calling me to tell me that my computer's arrived back from being repaired, I usually check the status on the AppleCare website and then give the store a call or go over.

[urrl78]

This link may be of interest:

http://www.macmaps.com/firewirebug.html

[Brian Campbell]

Originally posted by urrl78:
This link may be of interest:

http://www.macmaps.com/firewirebug.html

Thanks for the link! I've browsed through it and i believe i've tried everything there, but i might try it all one more time just to see if something helps. If nothing else hopefully it will be of use to someone else!