[Spliff]

Do PC laptops such as IBM, Toshiba, Compaq, and Sony have the same multiple quality control issues that Apple laptops have? Every time some problem arises with the iBook or the Powerbook, the media are all over it. Yet, I almost never hear of problems with PC laptops in the tech media. No reports of white spots on Toshibas or chipping paint on Sony laptops. Are all laptops just more unreliable than desktops or does Apple need to improve their quality control? Anyone have any info about quality problems with PC laptops (Dell excluded)? FYI, I don't own a laptop (yet), but I know at least a half dozen people with Apple laptops and they've all had one or more of the issues listed below.

Here is a list of some of the Apple laptop related issues of the past 2-3 years:

- Poor Wi-Fi reception (especially Tibook)
- hinge problems (squeaking, sticking, causing short circuits)
- monitor issues (white spots, dimness, vertical bars, poor color)
- paint chipping (Tibook)
- case cracking (iBook)
- case pitting (Alu Books)
- logic board issues (iBooks)
- short circuits (Tibook, caused by flexing palm rest)
- excessive heat
- case warping caused by heat
- broken latches
- curved displays (on new machines) and large gaps when closed
- sound issues (sound controller goes to sleep and has to be forcibly woken up)
- sleep issues (won't stay asleep or won't wake up)

[DL_AMG]

First of all, not sure this is good thing or not, you are reading too much MacNN forums. You are looking at Apple product with that little magnify glass (you see that little magnify glass next to MacNN logo?), that make you see everything in detail. If you search around the net, you will see a lot of PC laptop has its share of problems.
(or you should check out MBworld.org and you will know how many problem with MBs.)

As you know, 90% of the world are PC user. PC crashes, so call blue screen, is been a norm or no big deal (it's been better on MS-XP). To them Mac crash is something they will feel comfortable to hear (some kind of sick idea but its true.) News always chasing after news that people read the most and Apple is the one everyone like to chew on. 1 apple a day keep doctor away...aren't glad you got an Apple?

[Snake]

The Apple computer is the scrappy underdog to the news media. With the absurd press the iPod is getting (for good reason), people want to hear more about this company, or so the media thinks. Positive or negative press, it is still press. People have companies like Dell and Gateway shoving marketing down their throat. I personally don't care about PC problems, because I am not at all surprised. Apple computers should be held to a much higher standard

Anyway, I have never seen a PC laptop I have liked. My powerbook is a genuine desktop replacement, and more reliable than my custom built desktop PC.

[hldan]

Originally posted by Spliff:
Do PC laptops such as IBM, Toshiba, Compaq, and Sony have the same multiple quality control issues that Apple laptops have? Every time some problem arises with the iBook or the Powerbook, the media are all over it. Yet, I almost never hear of problems with PC laptops in the tech media. No reports of white spots on Toshibas or chipping paint on Sony laptops. Are all laptops just more unreliable than desktops or does Apple need to improve their quality control? Anyone have any info about quality problems with PC laptops (Dell excluded)? FYI, I don't own a laptop (yet), but I know at least a half dozen people with Apple laptops and they've all had one or more of the issues listed below.

Here is a list of some of the Apple laptop related issues of the past 2-3 years:

- Poor Wi-Fi reception (especially Tibook)
- hinge problems (squeaking, sticking, causing short circuits)
- monitor issues (white spots, dimness, vertical bars, poor color)
- paint chipping (Tibook)
- case cracking (iBook)
- case pitting (Alu Books)
- logic board issues (iBooks)
- short circuits (Tibook, caused by flexing palm rest)
- excessive heat
- case warping caused by heat
- broken latches
- curved displays (on new machines) and large gaps when closed
- sound issues (sound controller goes to sleep and has to be forcibly woken up)
- sleep issues (won't stay asleep or won't wake up)

You are making good points but all are not valid. You have to be a consistant PC user to really see what's really going on.
I hear problems with Sony Vaio notebooks all the time such as trackpad issues and start up problems and software issues because of "Sony specific" drivers not being compatible.
I hear about Dell and HP notebooks always getting complaints about overheating.
I hear a lot about Dell notebooks having dead pixel problems.

Both these companies sell more PC notebooks than any other company and Sony is basically the "Apple" of the PC world because of asthetics so naturally people have higher expectations so you will hear more complaints about the problems with Dell and Sony.

I agree that Apple has had issues with brand new machines right out of the box and you read about complaints but it's only from a very small amount of people on this forum. The people with good experiences will not always post their good experiences. Also aside from the iBook's logic board you only mentioned about the asthetic issues about Apple notebooks. You hardly hear about major issues with the OS. Apple's OS always receieves high marks from even PC companies. If it's just asthetics that gets complaints and not the actual operation of the computer then Apple gets the highest marks in that category.
I would rather have Apple's issues then the continous Windows virus issues. Now talk about the media being all over PC's about viruses. That's more damaging.
The moral is don't look at Apple as the only company with notebook problems.

[macaddict0001]

other laptops actually have more problems I just googled for dell support forums and then took the first off the list then I clicked on the links dimension then external peripherals this is the page I got notice how all the problems just repeat themselves usb not recognized for example that's how its like for apple being the underdog

[olePigeon]

The media takes the "if you're so perfect, how come..." approach with Apple. Apple has outstanding products, and nothing brings people to the news better than destroying something great. It's how they make money. If the news wasn't entertaining, no one would read/watch it except the intellectuals... and they all own Macs.

[TailsToo]

If I am ever unhappy with my Mac, all I have to do is try and reinstall windows. With all of the time and trouble to get it working right, I go back and beg my Mac for forgiveness for my disloyalty!

[tooki]

FWIW, a handful of Taiwanese companies manufacture pretty much all the laptops for all the major manufacturers -- our PowerBooks are made in the same factories as HPs, etc.

I'm inclined to say that build quality will be similar.

As for design problems, those are of course the domain of the engineering team back in the U.S.

tooki

[incubusdaemon]

I had a dell notebook for 2 years. During that time I was active in the dell forums and saw:

a giant recall of inspiron 2650 (i2650) notebooks due to faulty mobos.

a battery recall due to batteries that may explode in a burst of fire(!)

a patch because of a flaw that caused the speed stepping processors to get stuck in the slower operating mode

a power adapter recall because of overheating and possible shock

a USB port that has a nasty tendancy to crash the computer.

Granted, these weren't all on my notebook model (i8200), as only the patch affected me, but you get the point. With a device so complex as a computer, some will have problems. The media hypes it and the boards skew it. (If you love your computer because it has no problems are you going to stop and post on a message board to say how awesome it is?). The number of people with problems is small, and you have a warrenty to cover you if you happen to have any. I don't know apple's sales figures, but dell sells more than 1mil notebooks a year. 100 people posting about problems and ranting about design flaws is statistically completely insignificant.

[Spliff]

I already know that Dell laptops sucks. I was more interested in how Apple's laptops compare to high-end PC laptops from Toshiba, Sony, and IBM.

I'm starting to find lots of complaints about Sony, but not much about IBM or Toshiba.

BTW, I was looking at a Sony Vaio today and it had a gorgeous, high-gloss display. Much crisper and brighter than the 12" Powerbook. The sales dude said it was a "polished" display with "x-brite" technology. I wish Apple would add that high-gloss polish to their laptop displays.

I think the only thing I prefer in PC laptops over Apple laptops are the displays: brighter and higher resolutions.

[cszar2001]

If an Apple product has a problem the media can point the finger at one company - if other laptops have problems you`d have to do the same with several (10-20) companies.

My brother has an IBM X31; now - after a year the DVD drive is finished.
He tried to set up the sleep mode - no way to get it to work.
And this machine cost a lot more than my PB 17.

[wuzup101]

Out of the companies you mentioned, I would have to say that IBM has the best overall build quality with the least defects. They are pretty much the holly grail of PC notebooks (other than in the look department). Many buisnesses swear by them, and their T-series notebooks are strong competition for apple's high end powerbooks.

[Maflynn]

Bottom line is you need to buy what you think is best. Sure the Sony may have a better screen then the 12" pb. I can't confirm this since I have not seen it first hand.

There's one major distinction. Only the PBs run OSX. Which is a far superior operating system then windows. has Apple had issues from time to time with quality control sure but so hasn't sony, hp, ibm.

imho I think your over-thinking things here.

First this forum will attrack mostly complaints as its a technical support forum. Go to the sony/hp/ibm forums and you will here just as much if not more complaints. I was at the dell one and it will filled with unhappy customers.

Second what do you want to do with it. Play games, office apps, internet stuff, design work. All of which are easily handled on the PowerBook.

I think apple has an awesome design, good if not great quality and The best operating system. do I pay a premium for this yes.

Mike

[pete]

I think one of the reasons the IBM thinkpads are so good is that IBM has always just built on the original design. i mean they look the same as they did years ago. They don't change design just for fun, the way Apple does, but keep improving the already solid design with little details.

In any case, I'd be very happy to have a thinkpad running OS X! It would be nice to have such a solid, well-built machine even if it isn't as pretty as the current powerbooks.

[rglenn]

Some Thinkpads. The more expensive ones may be better, but anything in a consumer price bracket is likely to be absolute crap.

One of these days I'll post some photos of my ThinkPad i Series 1200, which after 3 years of not getting dropped and living in a padded case, has medium to large cracks in much of the housing, is missing pieces of plastic, has PC Card slots that overheat and drop connection after about 15 minutes, and possibly the stupidest location for a side USB port ever.

In hindsight, the best thing I can say about it is that the hinge that started breaking a year ago hasn't totally broken yet.

[incubusdaemon]

this whole thread is proving my point. If you ask for complaints, people come out of the woodwork to tell their horror stories.

No matter where you buy from, you can get a lemon. If you want to know which is generally most reliable, try pcmag's annual survey. You said Dell laptops suck, but they were one of the highest rated for both desktops and laptops again.

My major point is it's hard to ask the community for experiences, because the results are going to be skewed to the negative no matter who you ask.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by incubusdaemon:
My major point is it's hard to ask the community for experiences, because the results are going to be skewed to the negative no matter who you ask.

Yeah, I believe you speak the truth.

I'm going to start saving for a 12" Powerbook and hope that I don't get a lemon.

[tooki]

Yup. Nobody comes out to say "well I got one and it's been perfect". (Well, some do, but FAR from 100% of satisfied customers. On the contrary, people will go out of their way to post a negative experience.)

tooki

[Link]

Originally posted by rglenn:
Some Thinkpads. The more expensive ones may be better, but anything in a consumer price bracket is likely to be absolute crap.

One of these days I'll post some photos of my ThinkPad i Series 1200, which after 3 years of not getting dropped and living in a padded case, has medium to large cracks in much of the housing, is missing pieces of plastic, has PC Card slots that overheat and drop connection after about 15 minutes, and possibly the stupidest location for a side USB port ever.

In hindsight, the best thing I can say about it is that the hinge that started breaking a year ago hasn't totally broken yet.

How come the plastic cracking sounds so much like something I experienced with thinkpad laptops?

It's that dumb plastic they use.

[nate_02]

on the issue of poor wifi reception, my rev. B 15" Albook had much better reception thatn my rev. A.

I know it has been an issue since the Tibooks, but maybe it's finally getting better.

[BenN]

I love my PB at home; but the IBM X30 ThinkPad at work is built like a tank. Its as small & light as a 12" PowerBook, but feels very `solid`, and appears capable of withstanding lots of abuse (not that I`m going to tempt fate.......)

The only things I don`t like about the hardware are:

1) One of the USB ports is around the back; not convenient to use at all.

2) I hate trackpointers (i.e. IBM Red Nipple of Doom); I much prefer trackpads.

3) The battery life is crap; but that`s probably because its old.


But build quality? Flawless.