[adinfinitum]

Hey guys, I've been lurking around here while drooling over these beautiful things known as Apple Notebooks.

I'm thinking about selling my Dell desktop computer and getting an iBook 12" instead. Specs on the Dell are:

3ghz P4
1 GIG PC400 DDR
80GIG hard drive
128mb FX 5200
48x CD ROM

The specs on the iBook I'm looking at are:

12" iBook
1ghz G4
128mb ram + 512mb upgrade for $80 off the internet
30 or 40 gig hard drive
Airport Extreme
Bluetooth
Default vid card
20 gig ipod (only if they're still running that $200 promotion for cram and jam)

This iBook should run me around $1500 after educational discount and $200 ipod rebate, otherwise it will be $1400 without the ipod.

Now my two main questions are (thanks for reading thus far, you're a champ!):

Would the 12" iBook be ok as a daily computer or would the screen size drive me insane? I have a 19" CRT I could hook it up to (I'd rather not, but I could) if I had to.

I don't particularly need a laptop yet (I'm transferring to Chapman University in Fall of 2005, which is when I absolutely need a laptop), so would it be a waste to get one now (possible new revisions within a year)?

Thanks in advance for your replies

[MrForgetable]

1. Expose makes the screen size much more livable. If you find you can't handle the small letters, you can always go to 800x600 :shrug: The 19" CRT won't work unless you do the iBook Spanning Hack/Doctor. Do a search and they'll help you.
2. Yes, there will probably be another revision or 2 in a year so if you don't need a laptop now, you don't need to get it. Cram and Jam happened last year too so I'm thinking it will happen again next year too

So my take on it is, if you don't need it right now, don't get it unless you absolutely want it

[drive-thru]

1. The CRT will work without the hack, but it will "mirror" the iBook's display (basically copy what is on the iBook's screen, max resolution 1024x768). The spanning hack allows you to run the CRT as an extra screen (two screens side-by-side) and allows higher resolutions.

2. I would wait if you can so that you get the best computer for your money and got to university with a new-ish laptop so you won't feel like you need to upgrade half-way through your course.

I have used an iBook 800 G3 with a 19" CRT for about 18 months as my only computer & it has performed beyond what I could have expected. I'm a design student and can run Photoshop & Illustrator alongside iTunes and Safari without problems.

My recommendations:
-Was going to say the usual about getting an extra 512MB from a third-party, but you know about that.
-If you think you will use iTunes for a lot of your music (which saves taking loads of CDs to university) get the largest hard-drive you can afford. My iBook has a 30GB and now I am about to upgrade it as my music collection is causing me to run low on free disk-space.
-Think about what you need your computer to do. The iBook is ideal for most students as long as you don't need PC specific software or huge amounts of processor/graphics power.
-If you have any other questions/want more advice from iBook owners, just ask.

[wataru]

I would call myself a power user (whatever that means exactly). I use my computer a lot almost every day. My main machine is an 800MHz iBook G4 and I've found it to be adequate. I don't play games on it except for SNES emulation, but I get a solid 60fps.

Make sure you get more RAM. That is the single biggest issue with any Mac running OS X. I have 640MB but I still get significant pageouts. Depending on your workload you may be satisfied with 256 + 512MB, but if not there is also a 1GB upgrade available.

[webcookie]

The screen size takes some getting used to, but once you get used to it, it doesn't feel small at all. I say get the iBook now because who really wants to use a Dell. And get lots of RAM.

[Graymalkin]

I bought a 12" Powerbook when they were first released. Before that I had a Lombard Powerbook with a 14" (1024x768) screen. I thought the difference in screen size would be unbearable which made me hesitant at first to pick up the Powerbook. Once I played around with one at an Apple Store I became a bit more comfortable with the smaller screen. It's really sharp and bright and once you get used to it doesn't seem all that small.

If you're keeping your 19" CRT you might want to consider getting a Powerbook over an iBook. The iBooks are sweet little computers but they don't have monitor spanning without a third party hack. You don't want some OSX update killing your ability to span monitors. The Powerbooks can handle monitor spanning natively, in fact when I'm at my desk I use my 19" CRT as my main monitor and keep my Powerbook's screen off. If you ignore the little slab of aluminum on my desk it looks as if I'm running a desktop Mac.

If the monitor spanning isn't a prime requisite the iBook will be a pretty nice computer for you. My girlfriend uses a 900MHz G3 iBook as her main computer and gets along fine with it. She's yet to find anything she can't run or that runs too slowly to actually use. The new G4 iBooks are even nicer machines since they've got newer Radeon graphics cards and G4s instead of hers with a G3.

[adinfinitum]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll just wait a year before I get the 12" iBook.

As far as memory goes, is 768mb enough for basic computing. By basic computing I mean:

iChat
iTunes
Safari
Office
Maybe a little photoshop for fun and
Gaming (if they port HL2 over, I'm ok running it on the lowest resolution )

[Abit667]

I use my 1Ghz iBook as my main computer. I used to use my powermac with a 17" Apple CRT @ 1600x1200. I have a nice PC which only really gets used for gaming now, or when I actually really need to get work done.

The 1024x768 really pisses me off sometimes, although it's bearable most of the time. I'm really used to higher resolutions and it feels like everything gets so boxed in on here sometimes.

The hd in here is also really slow. My network is faster, but that doesn't really matter because any files and stuff I work with are on my network file server. I would get USB 2.0 external disk enclosure if you need faster hd performance.

Overall I got this with the cram and jam deal which worked out to be an excellent value. I got this for its portability and battery life so low res screen and stuff balance out. When I need to get serious work done or play games, I use my pc. Most of my time is still spent on my iBook though.

[drive-thru]

Originally posted by adinfinitum:
As far as memory goes, is 768mb enough for basic computing. By basic computing I mean:

iChat
iTunes
Safari
Office
Maybe a little photoshop for fun and
Gaming (if they port HL2 over, I'm ok running it on the lowest resolution )

Yeah, no problem. I run all those (inc. Photoshop/Illustrator) simultaneously on a G3 800 with 640MB.
I doubt you would notice a boost in performance above 768MB, at least not for those type of apps.

[polendo]

For whatever the reason, I think you took the right decision.

If you are used to the speed of your PC, I would advice you to test an iBook because the difference in (lesser) speed Vs. your actual rig is quite considerable. What you will definetly like is OS X. It's a great OS.

The screen size will boil down to your preference. I personally consider that the 12" screen size is ideal for the mobility that I use.

regards

[sniffer]

Also, it might be clever to take a note of this address:
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

It doesn't predict when new products is coming, but it gives you an idea about when it's ideal to buy one or the other of the Apple models.

[BigDaddy]

I have a 12 inch IBook and a PC and would want to loose either. Why would you sell your desktop anyway?

[QTI]

I have an ibook 800 with 640MB ram.

Most of the time I only use Word, Mail and websurfing. It is sufficient, but working on big Word documents (like 50+ pages) with rich formatting and complicated track changes is not as smooth as I wanted and there is always a time lag when scrolling. The CPU monitor would always show that its working at 100% if I scroll up and down alot quickly.

Other than that its a perfect little machine which lets me work in bed and I absolutely love it. When I have to work after coming back from the office really tired I prefer working in bed than at the desk with my dual 2G PowerMac.

[adinfinitum]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The reason I want to get rid of my PC is that there's no real need for it. WinXP drives me nuts sometimes. Right now I'm using my computer after it's been on for 4 straight days and it's really bogged down and about to crash.

That and I can't afford to not sell my PC and buy an iBook.

[wuzup101]

First of all let me say that I'm also a PC user who is used to a high level of performance. I used/use an overclocked AMD athlon XP (barton core) at 2.3ghz with 1gig of DDR400, 2x 7200rpm 120gb 8mb HDDs, Radeon 9800pro overclocked, 19" Samsung 191T LCD, etc... the works. It would be pretty much compareable to your PC speed wise except in encoding.

Anyway, since you are looking at a pretty high end iBook you might want to consider a 12" powerbook also. You're at the point where you've decked out your iBook to where it starts to blur with a powerbook. You can purchase the base 12" powerbook w/ a 1.33ghz G4, faster bus, more vram, native monitor spanning, smaller overall machine for only a bit more. It would cost you roughly $1900 for this machine + 1gb of the pc2700 kingmax ram that newegg is selling for $201 right now + the 20gb ipod. Then after the cram and jam rebate you'd have a more capeable machine for only $200 more. You're looking at more processing power... more ram... etc...

The iBook is a great notebook and shouldn't be overlooked by any means. However you're looking at decking it out with many of the features that the Powerbook comes with standard. It's almost a waste to go with the iBook in this case (again really not trying to flame any of you guys as it's a great machine). I just thought I'd bring this option to the table incase you didn't price the PB out.

[adinfinitum]

wuzup: thanks for the great reply.

I have slight reservations about purchasing a 12" PB, though. The reason being is that I'm hearing a lot of bad things about them as far as heat is concerned. I hear they overheat and the case warps very easily, which is why I was aimed more in the way of the iBook (I've heard many stories of how they withstand drops and what not).

Now, I'm not exactly planning on dropping my laptop that often, so if the PB really is a better deal that would be fine.

Some questions about the 12" iBook vs. PB:

What is the real world battery life on both of them?
Is there a huge difference in performance?
Does the PB really get that hot (I use my computer for browsing, listening to music, chatting for hours at a time)?
And are there any other advantages in getting the PB?

Once again, you guys have been more than helpful and I appreciate that you take time to help me out!

[wuzup101]

I understand where you're comming from. The iBook might be a bit more durable than the PB so you should take that into consideration. Personally I treat my PB very nice and make sure to do anything stupid (as any owner of any laptop should). Battery life is another good point that I failed to mention. I get about 3hrs of strictly wireless surfing/chatting on my 15" PB; however, the iBook does have the advantage here. You should see a minimum of 1hr more on the 12" iBook over the same sized PB. The Powerbook gets warm, but not that hot unless you are doing some serious work. I frequently lay around the house listening to tunes while surfing and chatting and my 15" never even feels warm to the touch. However when I break out a graphics intensive game or start doing some heavy Photo Shop work then it heats up. I wouldn't worry too much about the heat issue as you probably wont be doing anything with it on your lap that would cause it to heat up that much. Also, both machines exibit this to some extent not just the powerbook. The newest rev books also run cooler than past revs.

Honestly, this is an iBook forum and the iBook is one hell of a good value. Bottom line is that since you are adding a lot of standard Power Book goodies I just thought you might consider one. Also note in my previous post I added a 1gb sodimm to the PB. It would cost another $100 less (hence $100 more than the ibook) if you configured them both with the extra 512mb of ram. I just think since you can get a gig of the stuff for 200 now that it's a better deal... especially when you only have one free sodimm slot (in both machines).

[adinfinitum]

Here are the configurations I have for an iBook vs. Powerbook (education discount):

iBook vs. Powerbook

1ghz G4 1.33ghz G4
256mb DDR266 256mb DDR333
30g Ultra ATA 60g ATA/100
Airport Extreme Airport Extreme
Bluetooth Bluetooth
iPod 20g iPod 20g

$1384 $1688

So the difference is actually $304 + tax. Is the extra .33ghz, quicker memory, 30gig hard drive worth the $304 for school use? I may upgrade the hard drive on the iBook to 40gigs, but I probably wont even need that much.

Also, is there a big weight difference between the two?

Thanks in advance!

[brettcamp]

I faced the same choice a few months ago and went with the iBook, because I didn't plan to connect to a DVI monitor, my usage was mainly standard stuff like word processing, web surfing and email, and my iBook came bundled with a free Airport card, as the Powerbook does.

The main drawback is the hard disk -- half the capacity of the Powerbook's. But then I have an external hard drive, and you can always use CDs if your 40 gigs isn't enough.
I love the looks of the 12" Powerbook, but that wasn't worth an extra $300. Plus the iBook is more durable, and may have better airport range and battery life. If you're going to be doing more high end stuff, or connecting to a DVI monitor, you should probably go with the PB. Otherwise, the new G4 iBook is great -- it's my only computer, and has given me no problems so far. Be sure to add RAM -- going to 768 made a big difference.

[adinfinitum]

It looks like I'm going to wait a while before I purchase my iBook. I think it's a more economical decision in relation to my needs.

Thanks for all of your help!

[wuzup101]

Yeah sorry about that price, I upgraded the drive in the iBook to the 60gb model. I wouldn't see why you wouldn't want to do this unless price was a major factor (in which case I would drop BT). Anyway, since you won't be purchasing for a while maybe you'll be able to look forward to getting a faster machine when you do decide to buy. The iBook will probably be upgraded by then if you plan on waiting any extended amount of time.