[Simon]

OK, I booted my 12" PowerBook just this morning after it had been running for a couple of days perfectly fine. The grey startup screen with the Apple was staying around forever. Normally the PowerBook boots completely in a minute, but here I was looking at this grey screen for about a quarter of an hour. There was some disk noise, so I guessed something was going on.

Suddenly the disk goes 'clonk' and then I hear this beep that sounded exactly like an the beep an old DOS PC did when you booted it. Where did that beep come from? The Mac hadn't even booted yet!

Finally, after about half an hour the PowerBook had booted and I could log in. Everything was slow, lots of disk access. DiskUtility checked permissions and found nothing. I booted from my FireWire disk (with a recent backup on it) and checked my PowerBook's disk, but no errors were found. I booted in single user mode and did a /sbin/fsck -yf (disk is journaled) and it reported no errors. These checks ran for a very long time (much longer than they used to take), but they never found any errors.

I'm thinking of backing up and formatting the disk to see if it gets any better. But that strange beep scared me! What was that? Never heard a Mac beep like that. Can the disk beep? Can the board beep? Is the disk screwed? Or the board? Any idea what the hell is going on here? My warranty is running out in less than two weeks, so if it's really a hardware problem I have to find out quickly.

I'd be very grateful for any advice or insight on what is going on here. Has anybody else ever experienced such a beep?

[jamesa]

first: back up the hard drive. do not do another thing on the machine until it is 100% backed up. also, don't overwrite any old backups - if the drive is dying, the data integrity of the new backup may be compromised, you may need parts (or all) of the old backup

second: open up disk utility, click on your drive (the top one; don't click on the partition) and then look down the bottom for "S.M.A.R.T status". It should say "verified".

if it says something bad, time for a new disk. if it says verified, it still could fail. buy diskwarrior and run the full gamut of tests. if it passes all that... I don't know.

disk drives are kind of like relationships - once there's no more trust, it'll just eat you from the inside out. I'd replace it anyway.

-- james

[Simon]

Originally posted by jamesa:
first: back up the hard drive.

Already done. Data is safe.

second: open up disk utility, click on your drive (the top one; don't click on the partition) and then look down the bottom for "S.M.A.R.T status". It should say "verified".

Did that already too. It passed with 'verified', but do I have to trust it? Is SMART that reliable? And what the hell was that strange beep?

disk drives are kind of like relationships - once there's no more trust, it'll just eat you from the inside out. I'd replace it anyway.

I'd replace it myself indeed, but the trouble is I have to convince my Apple dealer that the disk is fubar so he can replace it on warranty.

I'm going to format the disk and see if that helps. If it doesn't I'll re-install Panther. And if that doesn't help I'll have the dealer replace the disk. But since this is my main work machine it sucks to be without it for the week it will take him to get the warranty repair done.

[jamesa]

Originally posted by Simon:
Did that already too. It passed with 'verified', but do I have to trust it? Is SMART that reliable? And what the hell was that strange beep?

That happens on some of the drives, I think it has something to do with the disk mounting/unmounting. I have a lacie external drive, it does it occasionally...

have you run diskwarrior on the drive? if it says it's ok, I'd be inclined to trust it. SMART verified just means that you don't have an imminent and obvious disk failure approaching.

I'd replace it myself indeed, but the trouble is I have to convince my Apple dealer that the disk is fubar so he can replace it on warranty.

I'm going to format the disk and see if that helps. If it doesn't I'll re-install Panther. And if that doesn't help I'll have the dealer replace the disk. But since this is my main work machine it sucks to be without it for the week it will take him to get the warranty repair done.

One good way to fubar a drive is to move it at sharp velocities while doing a write operation. but i wouldn't recommend that... because you don't want a fubared drive, do you?

-- james

[vinster]

Originally posted by Simon:
Did that already too. It passed with 'verified', but do I have to trust it? Is SMART that reliable? And what the hell was that strange beep?

I'd replace it myself indeed, but the trouble is I have to convince my Apple dealer that the disk is fubar so he can replace it on warranty.

I'm going to format the disk and see if that helps. If it doesn't I'll re-install Panther. And if that doesn't help I'll have the dealer replace the disk. But since this is my main work machine it sucks to be without it for the week it will take him to get the warranty repair done.

I had a 40GB IBM drive in my Pismo that started misbehaving. My computer would start to a grey screen and stay there, absolutely no other activity. Occasionally, when the computer was powered off for a day or two, I could boot. I was able to run disk utility and other repair apps and the S.M.A.R.T. status verified, but the disk was definitely bad so I ended up putting the stock 10GB drive back in and haven't had another problem.

[Simon]

Well, here's the update.

I re-formatted (where was that option to zero the entire drive and check for bad sectors? couldn't find it) the drive and did a clean re-install of Panther.

Ever since, the problems have dissapeared. So I guess it was software after all, but what the hell was that beep? I still can't believe my Mac made such a sound. I've owned quite a few Macs, but never heard such a thing. Strange.

And btw, I guess the culprit was one of these language package deleters (DeLocalizer and Monolingual). I had run them shortly before and it must have deleted some necessary system files. I will never use such an app again, and certainly not if it's not right after backing up...

[SpaceMonkey]

Did the beep sound like one of these?: http://www.thetechwolf.com/wraider/

I get a similar sound from my boot drive (I'm on a G4 tower) when it wakes from sleep. However, I have some cooling issues and the boot drive is underneath my other drive, so I'm taking my case to be a heat issue, which means the noise is most likely mechanical. I haven't had any problems with the drive or data loss though--seems to be running smoothly otherwise (so far).

[Simon]

Originally posted by SpaceMonkey:
Did the beep sound like one of these?: http://www.thetechwolf.com/wraider/

Indeed, it did sound the like the first sample you listed.

[Simon]

OK, here's another update. I'm starting to feel rather stupid here, because after claiming it's software I'm back to guessing the disk is actually really broken.

When I got up this morning I noticed everything was slow as molasses again even though I was now on a fresh and clean Panther install. The SMART status is still verified, so I thought, the hell with that SMART baloney and booted the machine. I didn't get past the grey Apple intro screen.

I booted again, and again it stalled at the grey screen, but now I heard the disk ticking. It lasted for a couple of minutes and then I heard clunk and the beep again. I haven't got the PowerBook to successfully boot from the internal disk ever since. It boots from the FireWire backup disk however.

So I guess tomorrow I'm going to take the PowerBook in. I'll ask them to check the board and the disk and to replace the disk if necessary, which I guess will be the case. If they replace it I'll request they take the 7200rpm Hitachi 80GB and let me pay the difference. I hope it will work that way.

[Simon]

So, I finally brought it to my dealer this morning.

He looked like but he took it. I told him to try something disk intensive like ASR (which will not complete) and he'd see that the disk is not working properly.

He told me it could take up to two weeks to fix it.

At least it happened a couple of days before warranty runs out.

[Simon]

Finally, after two weeks of waiting my dealer called up and said he could reproduce the disk errors and that he would exchange the disk as a warranty repair.

But, he would need to order the replacement disk from Apple which would take another week at least! My PowerBook would then have been gone for three weeks already!

I told him to forget that and just take one of the 2.5" 5400RPM disks he had in stock and put it in there. It will cost me about a $100, but I really want my PowerBook back because I'm going to travel to a conference soon and I really need it.

He called back an hour later and said, that he would need to ruin my bottom case! I couldn't believe my ears, so I asked him to repeat. Apparently, the screw above the hole for the Kensington Lock could not be released and he was going to have to drill it out. Now, after doing that he would not be able to put a new screw in and he would need to order a replacement bottom case from Apple. The best part is, that I get to pay the bottom case! He mentioned that by using the Kensington lock there was somehow too much stress put on the case or the screw and thus the damaged screw and damaged case were 'user abuse'. And btw, it would take an additional week to get the bottom case replacement part too.

OK, I was on the verge to telling him to go get you-know-what, but I decided I'd try to get him to make me a decent offer. We settled on me paying the disk and the case and him paying the labor. I can pick up the PowerBook today and use it with its new disk, but the screw missing. In the meantime he'll order the new bottom case and I'll return the PowerBook for an hour to replace the bottom case when the part arrives.

In the end I still feel kind of screwed.

Apple advertises the Kensington lock. I used it in accordance to the way Apple and Kensington recommend. Obviously Apple did a crap design in wrongly placing the screw or making the lock hole too flimsy, etc. But why do I get to pay for all of this under warranty? And why does it take Apple a full week to send a replacement disk? I really wonder if I'm getting screwed here.

Of course I'm looking forward to getting my PowerBook back and I'm glad it will be working, but there's definitely some bad aftertaste to the whole story. A high-end product like the PowerBook shouldn't break after 11 months of careful use. And if it does, it should be repaired quickly and for free the way people expect warranty to work. And a high-end product shouldn't have faulty screws either. Darn!

Any opinions here? Am I getting screwed or is this really Apple's way of treating customers?

[shatten22]

WOW. that sucks.

Why did you take it back to your dealer? I would have just sent it back to Apple. They usually don't take too long. And I think Apple wouldn't have even bothered you with the cost of the bottom case, cause to do the repair they would have had to open it.

Sounds like your dealer sucks.

Also, I have had over six laptop drives die on me. I have figured out it's because of peer to peer sharing software like Bit Torrent. File sharing screws with permissions somehow and writes to the disk erratically. I know this sounds weird, but it has corrupted my data so much that it causes the drive(s) to be accessed oddly which then screws up the heads on the drives and BAM wonky, dying drive.

S.M.A.R.T. never told me once that a drive was a dying. My system would just fall apart like yours did. First very slow, then sectors I couldn't access, finally constant accessing of the drive (stuck) followed by that high-pitched beep.

anyway, you shouldn't have to pay for labor under warranty.

g

[Simon]

Originally posted by shatten22:
WOW. that sucks.

Yep.

Sounds like your dealer sucks.

Indeed.

Why did you take it back to your dealer? I would have just sent it back to Apple. They usually don't take too long. And I think Apple wouldn't have even bothered you with the cost of the bottom case, cause to do the repair they would have had to open it.

Actually, I was told by Apple Switzerland (where I am currently living) that I have to bring it to my dealer, because I bought it from him and the device would be repaired under warranty by him. They would only take it if it was bought through the AppleStore or out of warranty. I will be buying any future hardware through the AppleStore so this is the last time I should have to put up with my dealer's repair shop.

S.M.A.R.T. never told me once that a drive was a dying. My system would just fall apart like yours did. First very slow, then sectors I couldn't access, finally constant accessing of the drive (stuck) followed by that high-pitched beep.

I think SMART is full of ****. The drive was clearly fubar, it wouldn't complete any larger tasks (booting from disk, ASR backups, permission checking, etc.), and it was ticking constantly. If SMART can't detect something my grandma's ears could, I think it isn't worth a cent. Marketing...

[jamesa]

Simon, my advice to you is to raise merry hell. The case is Apple's fault - not yours. After a week I'd have insisted they provide me a replacement computer in the mean time, and let them fix the disk drive while you had their computer.

At the very least, get your money back for the case. That's an Apple design flaw.

The other thing you probably need to be aware of is if the new drive now dies under warranty, it won't be covered by Apple.

-- james

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by jamesa:
Simon, my advice to you is to raise merry hell.

I agree 100%. If there was no 'user abuse' then there is no reason at all why you should have to bear any of the cost for the repair. You're being taken for a ride by your dealer.

I know I am late to the party, but I know the noise you're talking about. My PB played the same trick on me that it played on you. But as I had bought mine from the Apple store, my repair story is happier. It took Apple four days to fix mine, from pickup to delivery back to me.

[jamil5454]

I still have a drive that does that. It's definately dying. It was a 2gb Quantum in a windoze98 box. All of the sudden the drive started making accessing noises continuously, and all disk operations were really slow. Finally I backed up my data and then certain sectors started failing. Now when I turn on the drive it makes several clunks and then a loud purring. Like I said in an earlier post, sure 5400RPM may be BTO from Apple, but 4200RPM will generally run cooler and therefore (hopefully) last longer than a 5400RPM or 7200RPM in a laptop. Laptop drives usually fail because of heat. The SMART thing was weird - before my Compaq Armada drive failed, SMART told me "Disk Controller Error - Imminent Drive Failure" and so I had time to prepare. I later found out the Aramada's fan had stopped working and I concluded the disk overheated.

Another thing that might have happened was a slight bump to your PB. The disk platters are spinning away at unbelievably close distances to the heads (way less than a hair's width) and just a simple knock would cause the head to crash into the platter.

About the case, are there any disadvantages to using the PB with a screw missing? I've never had a PB but with my other laptops I could easily use them just as I had before with a couple case screws missing.

[Simon]

Originally posted by jamil5454:
About the case, are there any disadvantages to using the PB with a screw missing? I've never had a PB but with my other laptops I could easily use them just as I had before with a couple case screws missing.

Yes, I have been thinking about using it with a missing screw and saving the cost of a new bottom case. The problem is that I normally switch my Macs every 12-18 months and the resale value of the PowerBook will certainly suffer form such an evident thing as a black hole with a missing screw on the side of the case.

Tomorrow I'm going to call my dealer and tell the Austrian (God, I hate that accent) bastard that's supposed to fix it to just put the new disk in and get over with it. I'll pay the $100 for the disk and that's it. Then, I want to talk to the boss of the outfit and finally I'll report the whole incident to Apple. No way a joint like this should be able to call itself 'Authorized Apple Service Center'.

Jeeze, I just hate the whole story. If I wouldn't have just bought a new ACD I think I'd chuck the PowerBook and buy a new 1.5GHz 15" model with all the bells and whistles...

[Simon]

OK, for those of you that think the story can't get worse, forget it. It can.

I went to pick it up today. The disk is replaced and it really feels a lot faster. And it's quieter. I'm fine with paying $100 for that.

The 1h labor is being billed to me because the whole incident is due to 'user abuse' as they claim. That 1h costed me another $120.

But here's the real kill: When I came home with the PowerBook and wanted to install a fresh Panther I noticed that I can't insert any CDROMs. Somehow there seems to be some obstacle they put behind the slot of the optical drive about an inch from the left end. I can't really see what it is (since the felt protection of the optical drive is in the way), but it will not let me put in any disk. I called them up and they thought maybe something went wrong when they put it back together (duh) and that I should bring it in again tomorrow. They assured that they would try to fix it right away.

Great. My PowerBook is still unusable and I have to waste another two hours just to take it back in and have them put it back together the way it's supposed to be done. What a bunch of idiots. I would have been better off if I had just done it myself.