[RonnieoftheRose]

We've had comparisons before but this one's going to be constrained for laptops used only indoors. Therefore battery life and thickness shouldn't be part of the discussion. Simply post the most powerful desktop replacements you can configure from different manufacturers to compare prices and performance. Obviously PowerBooks are included which may result in some arguments about style and battery life. We've debated that to death but talk about the PowerBook G5 in other threads can continue here.

I maxed out a Dell Inspiron XPS, Alienware, Vaio and PowerBook. I tried to do the same with a Voodoo PC but the site's form doesn't work properly at the moment.

Alienware Area-51m 7700

17" WideSXGA+ 1680 x 1050 LCD Display with Built-in Camera
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 560 w/ HT Technology 3.6GHz 1MB Cache
Memory: 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SO-DIMM at 533MHz - 4 x 512MB
Extreme Performance - RAID 0 - 200GB (100GB x 2) 5400 RPM ATA100 - Seagate
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Go with 256MB of DDR2 memory
Sound-Blaster Pro Compatible 3D Audio
56K Modem with V.92 Technology
Integrated 10/1000Mb Gigabit Ethernet NIC
Motherboard: Intel® 915P Chipset Supporting PCI-Express
8X Dual Layer DVD+/-RW / 24X CD-RW Combo w/Software
Internal Wireless 802.11a/b/g miniPCI Card

Price $3990

Pros: Crazy performance. Dual HDs on a RAID channel. PCI Express. Upgradable graphics.
Cons: No internal Bluetooth option. Screen resolution not as high as Dell or Sony offers.

Apple PowerBook G4

1.5GHz PowerPC G4
ATI Radeon 9700 Mobility with 128MB Graphics Memory
2GB DDR333 SDRAM - 2 SO-DIMMs
80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 5400rpm
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
AirPort Extreme Card
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
17-inch TFT Display 1440x900

Price $4,049.00

Pros: Can be used as a portable outside. Sufficiently fast enough to use OSX apps but can't compete with Alienware in any benchmark. Backlit keyboard. OS X. Built-in Bluetooth.
Cons: Still no option for latest 100GB HDs. No 8X DVD-RW. No upgradable graphics. Price higher than the Alienware. Apple charges too much for slower memory.

Dell Inspiron XPS

Pentium® 4 Processor 3.40GHz w/ HT Tech Extreme Edition,
15.4-in WUXGA
2GB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz
256MB DDR ATI's MOBILITY™ RADEON™ 9800 AGP 8X Graphics
100GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive
8x CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer write capability
Dell® Wireless 1450 Internal Wireless 802.11a/b/g, 54Mbps
96 WHr 12-cell Primary Battery with Subwoofer
Dell™ TrueMobile™ 300 Bluetooth Module
132 WHr 16-cell Secondary Battery

Price $4,515.20

Pros: High resolution WUXGA. Triband WiFi. Dual batteries. Upgradable graphics.
Cons: Slower than the Alienware with less features but more expensive. No 17" TFT option.

Sony Vaio A290

Intel® Pentium® M Processor 735 1.70AGHz L2 Cache : 2MB
Hard Drive : 100GB
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network Connection(802.11b/g)
LCD : 17” WUXGA with XBRITE™ Technology (1920x1200)
ATI Mobility™ Radeon™ 9700 64MB
1.5GB memory DDR 333
8X DVD+R Double Layer with DVD±RW/CD-RW4
Integrated V.90 Modem with RJ-11 interface
10BASE-T/100BASE-TX/1000BASETX Ethernet with RJ-45 interface
Video Interface : A/V mini jack, Giga Pocket® Engine MPEG2 Realtime Encoder/Decoder board with TV Tuner
i.LINK® connector(IEEE 1394)6, 3 USB 2.0 ports, port replicator connector
AV Entertainment Dock with S-Master™ Digital Amplifier and Premium Speakers including: DC in, Four USB 2.0 ports, Monitor (VGA) port, VHF/UHF TV port, S-Video in/out, DVI-D, RJ-45 Ethernet, Printer port, Optical out, Line in (RCA Pin), Line out (RCA Pin), Dock Connector
Lithium-ion Battery (PCGA-BP2EA) Standard Battery: 1.3-3.0 hours

Price $3199.98

Pros: High resolution 17" XBrite screen. TV card. Video I/O. Dock. Good battery life. Good price.
Cons: No Pentium IV option. Only 64MB VRAM.

[Randman]

Check the PB17 price if you buy ram from some dealer besides Apple. The price drops considerably.

But to be fair, what are you planning to use the computer for? And if you're not planning on taking it outside or using it much in a portable sense, I'd consider an iMacG5. Get the 250GB HD, built-BT and wireless keyboard setup.

[shortyes]

If you thinking about a desktop replacement, I am assuming gaming is a huge factor. The PB are not that great at gaming compare to a convientional PC notebook these days.

As for ram, buy it outside 1x1gb stick of ram is only 191 dollars. so you can upgrade to 2gb for 400

also think about getting ether the 9800 or the newer 6800 mobile video cards.

[sheer]

RonnieoftheRose: Forget Pentium 4's for laptops (you highlight the Viao as not having a P4 option as being a con), Pentium M's are more comparable to A64s in performance and are definitely the chip Intel should be using in desktops if they want to win back the enthusiast market.

At the prices there the Viao is a no-brainer to be honest, unless you get cheaper ram and the PB can do everything you need. It's a tough choice but it's between the Viao (cost/features) and the PB (aesthetics, better OS) for me.

I wouldn't touch the Dell because of shoddy build quality/materials (we have some Dell laptops at work and they're simply awful in that respect) and the Alienware is too gimmicky - you could build a comparable gaming rig then pick up a refurb iBook or something and skip paying for the Alienware branding. The Sony (and I'm not a fan of Sony products) also has the best screen of the four (IMO) and in terms of features nothing else comes close.

[LORL]

I don't see how these laptops are comparable at all, at least to the Powerbook.

The point of the Powerbook is never going to be true desktop replacement, because it will always have decent battery life and portability despite it's increased speed.

However, those XPS and Alienwares essentially cannot be moved. Thier weight is horrific (2 hard drives with a desktop processor?), and so is their thickness (my friend's XPS is probably 2 inches). We don't even want to talk about heat issues.

Not to mention, the only reason for a high, high speed desktop replacement laptop is for LAN parties, in which case, you wouldn't buy a Mac anyway.

The desktop replacement market is retarded. Laptop LCDs aren't fit for gaming anyway, and neither are the keyboards. Just buy a small form desktop (like a shuttle) and learn how to carry it.

Not to mention, I feel you calculated prices wrong. The top of the line Alienware Laptop (without any accessories like a case) is about $4300. And be honest, getting 2 gig of [Apple RAM is the only thing that makes that computer $4000. Otherwise, it wouldn't even be comparable.

[azdude]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
Pros: Can be used as a portable outside. Sufficiently fast enough to use OSX apps but can't compete with Alienware in any benchmark. Backlit keyboard. OS X. Built-in Bluetooth.

In addition to what others have said, I want to make sure that you don't underestimate these three letters in your "Pros" section for the Powerbook.

When you're comparing prices (for God's sake, get 3rd party RAM) and pros & cons, add "Viruses" and "Spyware infestations" in 30-point bold letters to the cons of each PC-based laptop.

This isn't blind fanboy-ism... it's the truth. The thing I like best about my choice to (return to) use the Mac is that all the headaches are gone. I'm not running Ad-Aware twice a week, I'm not frantically grabbing McAfee updates as they're available, and I'm not worrying about the goddamn registry getting mucked up. Don't underestimate the power of those three letters. Please.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by sheer:
RonnieoftheRose: Forget Pentium 4's for laptops (you highlight the Viao as not having a P4 option as being a con), Pentium M's are more comparable to A64s in performance and are definitely the chip Intel should be using in desktops if they want to win back the enthusiast market.

Not yet. The P-Ms at the moment top 2.1Ghz, roughly equivalent in most benchmarks to a 3Ghz PIV. The PIV in the Alienware above is the latest edition that runs faster clock for clock and has a enhanced cache. The AMD chips are great but in office apps and games but the PIV has them in multimedia applications that depend on raw clockspeed.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by Randman:
Check the PB17 price if you buy ram from some dealer besides Apple. The price drops considerably.

The same would apply to all the above as they all charge more money for memory than elsewhere. Apple is the biggest overcharger of the lot especially when you consider they are selling 333Mhz DDR at a much higher price than Alienware is selling 533Mhz DDRII.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by LORL:
I don't see how these laptops are comparable at all, at least to the Powerbook.

The point of the Powerbook is never going to be true desktop replacement, because it will always have decent battery life and portability despite it's increased speed.

The desktop replacement market is retarded. Laptop LCDs aren't fit for gaming anyway, and neither are the keyboards. Just buy a small form desktop (like a shuttle) and learn how to carry it.

Not to mention, I feel you calculated prices wrong.

I use my PowerBook exclusively indoors but frequently move from desk to coffee table to couch to bed. At most it's unplugged for two hours tops. Weight isn't such a factor when it comes to the way I and others use it.

The PowerBook was a desktop replacement and portable at one time. The Ti-800 beat the Power Mac 800DP in some benchmarks. Nobody has figured out why yet. It wasn't until the the last of the Tis and the first of the Alus got stuck at 1Ghz for almost a year that the Power Mac pulled ahead.

Think about this. The Ti-1Ghz came out in the fall of 2002. Two years have passed and the PowerBook range is only 500Mhz faster. The PowerBook might still be competitive with the desktop range if the CPUs could have been delivered. We don't have to be at the same speed as the desktops with two inch thick designs but Apple's practice of updating laptops once or twice a year has ensured that Motorola and IBM don't have the enthusiasm to produce the chips on time. They could put more effort into it, maybe they do have serious problems, but it's also partly Apple's fault. They exploit Mac users with their brand image. They know we'll be loyal because of the operating system and they milk us for that by overcharging for internal components that they rarely update.

They don't even have the courtesy to reduce prices and put on a sale shortly before the arrival of a new model. That's unfair business practice.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by azdude:
In addition to what others have said, I want to make sure that you don't underestimate these three letters in your "Pros" section for the Powerbook.

When you're comparing prices (for God's sake, get 3rd party RAM) and pros & cons, add "Viruses" and "Spyware infestations" in 30-point bold letters to the cons of each PC-based laptop.

A lot of that is Internet Explorer's fault and also end-users surfing pornsites all day. Security holes, pop up ads, file sharing, it all adds up.

Someone who treats their computer with respect and knows how to keep thigns clean hardly ever has a problem. I've seen OSX installations full of bugs and slowdowns because of third party gimmicks and because the user had terrible surfing habits.

We're talking about hardware here. That's all. All the computers above are expensive but nothing justifies the price Apple is charging for design and OS alone. The Vaio and the Dell have shoddy build quality and should be cheaper too. The Alienware represented tremendous value for money and is a true desktop replacement with its two hard drive bays, two optical drive bays and PCI-Express. I would love a Mac like that to move around the house and have plenty of spare power and upgradability! Tell me nobody would buy this even if it was two inches thick (The rest of the slim designs could remain. This would be the highest end of the PowerBook range).

PowerPC G5 2-2.2Ghz with 1MB Cache
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 at 533MHz
RAID 0 - 200GB (100GB x 2) 5400 RPM ATA100
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Go with 256MB of DDR2 memory
PCI Express upgradable graphics
56K Modem V.92
Gigabit Ethernet
8X Dual Layer DVD+/-RW / 24X CD-RW
Airport Extreme
Bluetooth
Backlit keyboard
17" TFT 1920x1200

[RonnieoftheRose]

A maxed out VoodooPC represents the worst value for money. With the same specs as the Alienware the price comes out to $6017!

Voodoo ENVY m:790 Entertainment Notebook

Intel Pentium4 560 3.6GHz
Envy Performance Motherboard
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Cooling Compound
2 GiG Voodoo DDR2 533MHz SODIMM Kit
Enable RAID
200 GiG 5400 RPM Seagate Momentus RAID
ENVY 8X DVD+-RW Dual Layer Tray Load
nVidia Geforce 6800 Go PCI/E 256
17" TFT WSXGA+ 1680X1050 LCD
Voodoo ENVY m:7XX Video Camera
Envy Immersive Theater Audio System
Envy Theaterbook Immersive Subwoofer
ENVY Gigabit High Speed Ethernet
Internal 56K Fax Modem
Windows XP Professional
FUEL Software Essentials v1 ($395 US Value)
Voodoo GameDoctor - 1 Year Membership
Voodoo Lithium Ion Rechargable Battery Pack
Voodoo Stealth XL Metal Notebook Case