[TheVillageIdiot]

Well, Jobs said it took about 2 yrs for the G4 to get into a notebook, so is it unreasonable to assume a June 2005 date for the G5 in a notebook?

An Idiot can dream, can't he?

Also, why hasn't motorolla (sp?) or IBM been given the task of upgrading the Bus and Cache on the G4? Would a 266mhz FSB be too much to ask? Heck, why not 400mhz? What about 1mb cache?

Oh well, your input is appreciated!

[Filburt]

By June 2005, PowerBooks should use one of the followings:

• Freescale 7448: 90-nm G4 that consumes less than 10W at 1.4 GHz (existing 7447A G4 consumes 21W or more at 1.4 GHz) and has 200 MHz FSB and 1 MB L2. It is expected to run at 1.6 GHz or faster. Since 7448 is pin-level compatible with 7447A, it will take very little efforts to implement 7448 on PowerBooks. 7448 is due 1st half of 2005.
• Freescale 8641 or 8641D: both are 90-nm G4, where 8641 is single-core G4 and 8641D is dual-core. Both features dual 667MHz DDR-II memory controllers (8 to 10 GB/sec), 1 MB L2, dual PCI Express, RapidIO bus, and 4 gigabit ethernet. 8641D should consume between 15 and 25W in typical usage (8641 comparabl to 7448). It is due 2nd half of 2005.
• IBM's "mobile" PowerPC 970: few details are known. It will likely be a variation of single-core PowerPC 970GX running between 1.6 to 1.8 GHz, significantly lower power usage than existing 970FX, and due sometime in 1st half of 2005.

[ddma]

I like to see dual core G4 1.5GHz+ because I doubt a single G5 1.6 or 1.8 will be faster than it. Unless there wouldl be higher clock speed G5 for use in PowerBook.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Filburt:
Freescale 7448: 90-nm G4 that consumes less than 10W at 1.4 GHz (existing 7447A G4 consumes 21W or more at 1.4 GHz) and has 200 MHz FSB and 1 MB L2. It is expected to run at 1.6 GHz or faster. Since 7448 is pin-level compatible with 7447A, it will take very little efforts to implement 7448 on PowerBooks. 7448 is due 1st half of 2005.

However, Freescale says it won't be in volume production until the 2nd half of 2005.

Freescale 8641 or 8641D: both are 90-nm G4, where 8641 is single-core G4 and 8641D is dual-core. Both features dual 667MHz DDR-II memory controllers (8 to 10 GB/sec), 1 MB L2, dual PCI Express, RapidIO bus, and 4 gigabit ethernet. 8641D should consume between 15 and 25W in typical usage (8641 comparabl to 7448). It is due 2nd half of 2005.

However, Freescale says it won't be in volume production until the 1st half of 2006.

IBM's "mobile" PowerPC 970: few details are known. It will likely be a variation of single-core PowerPC 970GX running between 1.6 to 1.8 GHz, significantly lower power usage than existing 970FX, and due sometime in 1st half of 2005.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is in fact this 970GX chip, a tweaked 970FX, or something similar, at up to 1.8 GHz. And I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up at Macworld in January, but that's pushing it of course.

Originally posted by ddma:
I like to see dual core G4 1.5GHz+ because I doubt a single G5 1.6 or 1.8 will be faster than it. Unless there wouldl be higher clock speed G5 for use in PowerBook.

A dual core G4 e600 at 1.5 GHz would be too hot for a PowerBook. The quoted power dissipation numbers are "typical" numbers, not max. The max numbers are probably somewhere around 33% to 50% higher.

[wilsonng]

Well, I'm not sure if Jason O'Grady's PowerPage is a credible source but this is what was posted:

http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/Web...y?newsID=12444

Anybody know the validity and/or credibility of PowerPage?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by wilsonng:
validity and/or credibility of PowerPage?

Not credible. He's just speculating like the rest of us... except we don't claim we have inside info. Plus, some of his posts make it clear that he doesn't really know what he's talking about and is just making stuff up.

[TheVillageIdiot]

Thanks for the responses guys, my hair hurts!

what do you think about the Powerbook being upgraded speed wise? Rumors are a 1.8 or 2.0 ghz chip, feasable? Plauseable?

I'm assuming if they do that, they would upgrade the ibook, maybe to a 1.33 for the 12" and a 1.5 for 14"

again, thanks for the info guys (and gals)!

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by TheVillageIdiot:
what do you think about the Powerbook being upgraded speed wise? Rumors are a 1.8 or 2.0 ghz chip, feasable? Plauseable?

Yeah, I think a 1.8 GHz is feasile/plausible. However... Will it be a G4 or a G5? Things don't look that promising for either of them at MWSF actually, but the PowerBook is overdue for an update. The G4 would be easier to implement of course, but Freescale seems to suggest that MWSF is somewhat too early. And we don't know much about the low power G5 plans at all. I'm hoping for the G5 1.8 at MWSF though.

[TheVillageIdiot]

Eug,

Thanks for all the info. In my original post, I asked about updates to the G4's cache and FSB, etc...

I've read on some boards that the Pentium M is really a glorified PIII w/ a 1mb Cache, and a faster FSB. Is this true? If so, are there any considerations from Moto to update the G4 w/ a bigger L1/L2 cache and mabye throw in a 266 or 300mhz Bus... Would this do much to improve performance? And would it create additional problems w/ battery power, heat, etc.?

I notice that they have a 166FSB for the powerbook... it just seems a little slow.

Anyway, I'm not too savy w/ processor architecture, so your insight is again, appreciated!

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by TheVillageIdiot:
Eug,
I've read on some boards that the Pentium M is really a glorified PIII w/ a 1mb Cache, and a faster FSB. Is this true?

I'm no expert, but... The PIII serves as the basis for part of the development of the Pentium M, but Pentium M truly is a strong and new design. It's extremely efficient for the power, and its overall performance per clock is excellent. Intel has a real winner with the Pentium M, so much so that they're going to be basing desktop chips on that design too.

I notice that they have a 166FSB for the powerbook... it just seems a little slow.

Yes, it's slow.

The G4 7448 would speed that up to 200 MHz, but it still wouldn't properly support DDR. (The current G4s do not support DDR. The CPU deals with DDR memory as if it were SDR.) The G5 1.8 probably would have something like a 450-600 MHz bus.

If so, are there any considerations from Moto to update the G4 w/ a bigger L1/L2 cache

The L2 cache will double from the current 512 KB in the 7447A to 1 MB in the 7448.

[TheVillageIdiot]

again, thanks for the info...

I'm assuming we'll see a price drop on the current systems if or when Apple decides to role out the updates?

I know it's probably just speculation on your part (and mine), but should we expect to see that as soon as January or will it take a while longer?

Also, will the 7448 require any sig. changes to the logic board or is it a fairly easy update for Apple?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by TheVillageIdiot:
I'm assuming we'll see a price drop on the current systems if or when Apple decides to role out the updates?

You can get the current systems for cheaper at the refurb store or thru 3rd parties. Apple doesn't sell the old systems off its main pages though.

I know it's probably just speculation on your part (and mine), but should we expect to see that as soon as January or will it take a while longer?

Short answer: I don't know.
Long answer: Maybe, because the current PowerBooks would be 9 months old by the time MWSF rolls around. However, there is a lot uncertainty about the availability of new G4 or G5 chips for that MWSF time frame.

Also, will the 7448 require any sig. changes to the logic board or is it a fairly easy update for Apple?

AFAIK, the 7448 is basically a drop-in replacement for the 7447A. The G5 would require an entirely new design.

BTW, in OS X 10.3.5:

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMacRISC4PE.kext/Contents/Info.plist

PowerMac7,2: Rev. A G5 Power Macs
PowerMac7,3: Rev. B G5 Power Macs
PowerMac8,1: iMac G5
PowerMac9,1: new Power Mac G5 1.8 single
RackMac3,1: Xserve G5
PowerBook7,1: ???
PowerBook7,2: ???

When this little piece of info was discovered many moons ago, some of the units hadn't been announced yet. eg. The PowerMac8,1 didn't exist, yet was already listed in OS X. It showed up later as the iMac G5. I wonder if the "PowerBook7,1" and/or "PowerBook7,2" listed in OS X 10.3.5 were prototype G5 PowerBooks. One can always dream... However, for some reason they were removed from OS X 10.3.6. Hmmm...

[TheVillageIdiot]

Would the 7448 be considered a "drop-in" replacement for the ibook as well?

How would the 7448 w/ the 1mb cache and a 200mhz fsb compare w/ the current G4? Would you see significant changes while running more graphic intensive apps? Photoshop, etc.?

Also, who would produce the 7448? You mentioned Freescale, but do they actually produce the chip or would that be left to motorolla or ibm...?

ps - i promise that eventually i will run out of questions to ask!

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by TheVillageIdiot:
Would the 7448 be considered a "drop-in" replacement for the ibook as well?

Basically yes.

How would the 7448 w/ the 1mb cache and a 200mhz fsb compare w/ the current G4? Would you see significant changes while running more graphic intensive apps? Photoshop, etc.?

Probably a nice boost for all of the above (in addition to the clock speed boost).

Also, who would produce the 7448? You mentioned Freescale, but do they actually produce the chip or would that be left to motorolla or ibm...?

Motorola's chip division separated from the parent company and is now called Freescale. IOW, Motorola no longer makes G4s. IBM has nothing to do with this chip.

[TheVillageIdiot]

all right, thanks for the info! have a great day Eug!