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velodev · Nov 24, 2004, 08:55 PM

"and all subsequent repairs will be denied"

Ok, I've had a computer for about 23 years now. I'm 28. I know computers, I work on them for about 8-16 hours a day.

Story: Apple AlBook 1.25Ghz one day shows half of the 2Gb of RAM. I reboot. Still showing 1Gb of available memory. I take the 2 DIMM's and swap from lower to upper bay one at time to isolate which one is the problem. When I put either piece in the lower bay I get the 3 beep (I think 3, or 4) to say... no memory. When I put that same chip in the upper bay, works perfect and I have 1Gb of available RAM. I sent the Powerbook into AppleCare. They blame it on 3rd party memory. How? But they also replaced the logic board. I called OWC and they swapped the memory for two new chips.

So, when it came back I felt like they wiped out my preferences as the Powerbook started doing really stupid things that I couldn't adjust. Such as, the background would change ever 30 minutes even though that option wasn't selected. Later on about 1 month, Firefox would just crash for no reason. Then Safari would crash as well. Then a couple weeks later the computer would crash the primary app, and about 10 minutes later freeze the system. Only way to recover is power it off - hard reboot.

Fast forward to last Thursday. Computer is doing this crash/freeze thing again. I backup and then wipe the hard drive with all 0's. Install Panther and all updates. It freezes during the update. WTF. When I reboot, kernel panic on reboot. And every single reboot since then. I call up OWC who sold me the memory and got 2 brand new sticks (set #3 now - different brand #3). Swapped them out - kernel panic on reboot. Then, I work with AppleCare on the phone and run every test - Quick and Extended Test - and the new memory passes (every bank) and logic board. WTF. I am instructed to take it to a store and ship it in for repair. At the store, I get Apple Samsung RAM put in. Kernel panic on boot. The guy from Apple even put it in the notes - "Boot unit to kernel panic even with kg apple ram"

So the Powerbook sent out on Monday, came back today. I'm always impressed with their turn-around. Included is a letter: After extensive testing, we have determined that a failure in your Powerbook was caused by non-Apple products. The failed product is Memory (RAM). The subsequent repair will not be covered under warranty"

I can't get a hold of them now because of the holiday... but computer geeks, am I missing something or is this as evident as it seems that they continually accuse 3rd party RAM as culprit any time they spot it?

edit; and I am aware this behavior could be caused by RAM but my own testing ruled it out, I believe.

vinster · Nov 24, 2004, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by velodev:
"and all subsequent repairs will be denied"

So the Powerbook sent out on Monday, came back today. I'm always impressed with their turn-around. Included is a letter: After extensive testing, we have determined that a failure in your Powerbook was caused by non-Apple products. The failed product is Memory (RAM). The subsequent repair will not be covered under warranty"

AFAIK, there is no such thing as 'Apple RAM' - it's all third-party. My 15" PB came straight from the China assembly line with off-brand RAM (it's definitely not Samsung).

My advice is to document everything as far as RAM purchase/exchanges and prior repairs go.

Be professional but persistent with customer relations. You might also want to bring this to the attention of OWC as they may be able to help your case or pick up the tab if necessary.

Did they actually repair your PowerBook?

nate_02 · Nov 25, 2004, 01:05 AM

When I had my keyboard replaced last time, I got an email with a message to call Apple. When I call, the guys says that I damaged the keyboard and apple will not repair it under warranty and that it will be $600 (The keyboard had problems from day 1). I argue with the guy for about 10 min and he finally says he will gladly send my PB back to me unrepaired. I said, no, I'd like to speak with your manager. After waiting another 10 min, the manager comes on the phone and says right away that they will repair it under warranty.

Sometimes it seems that you just need to talk to someone with common sense. I would ask to speak to a manager next time if you can.

velodev · Nov 25, 2004, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by vinster:
AFAIK, there is no such thing as 'Apple RAM' - it's all third-party. My 15" PB came straight from the China assembly line with off-brand RAM (it's definitely not Samsung).

My advice is to document everything as far as RAM purchase/exchanges and prior repairs go.

Be professional but persistent with customer relations. You might also want to bring this to the attention of OWC as they may be able to help your case or pick up the tab if necessary.

Did they actually repair your PowerBook?

Great response. I should have realized that there is no such thing as "Apple RAM" other than who they have a pre-sales agreement with to fill their bays.

I have all the repair sheets from Apple and "replacement" sheets from OWC. OWC has helped tremendously in almost no questions asked lifetime replacements of the 1Gb DIMMS. They operate about 15 miles from my house - it's great to know they are local and reliable with a true understand of customer service. I couldn't recommend them enough because of my RAM purchase, Miglia purchase, etc. etc. etc.

Did they actually repair my Powerbook? Here's the million dollar question. Yes. But, guess what they repaired:

Part# 655-1113A DA TOSHIBA PLUTO 4200RPM 80GB HD
Part# 632-0194 FLX CKT ASSY, HDD, PB 15"

So, can anyone find out how 3rd party RAM caused issues with the hard drive and some hard drive assembly? For the 20+ years of working on computers, I'm at a loss. So far, as of today... no issues, knock on wood.

tooki · Nov 25, 2004, 11:10 AM

Yeah, it almost sounds to me as if they mixed up your and someone else's repair orders. There's simply no way that bad RAM could have damaged a cable. (Other than the RAM catching fire and burning up the whole machine, but I'm pretty confident that didn't happen.)

I agree, you need to talk to some managers, and get in writing the exact chain of events that supposedly caused bad RAM to damage completely unrelated parts of the computer. Then dispute it to Customer Relations because it makes no sense.

tooki

bighead · Nov 25, 2004, 11:30 AM

While RAM won't physically damage a unit unless it is under a circumstance like Tooki mentioned, I've seen so many machines with bad third-party RAM causing KPs and the RAM not being recognized. The "Edge" brand RAM installed by places like MacMall is some of the worst, as is "Elixir" that is sold by Fry's. I've seen a lot of other places sell those brands, and I am always amazed at how smoothly machines run once that crap is removed.

OWC sells some no-name chips, but stands behind them with a great warranty. I've had one bad chip (512 MB PC2700 SO-DIMM) that would cause the machine to lock after about 2-5 minutes. They sent me another no-name brand of RAM and it has worked perfectly since April in my 1.5 GHz book. Both the good and the bad chip passed Apple Hardware Test and Apple Service Diagnostics.

When I sent my Pismo in for service 3 years ago or so, I had two 512 MB cards installed in it. Even though the spec of the machine was 512, they didn't call it out of warranty. One of the cards (the bottom one) was bad, so they put the good card in the bottom slot and sent the "Bad RAM" letter with the bad bottom card in a static bag. Had that card replaced, and it was perfect.

It is an extremely rare case when I've replaced defective Apple-original RAM. Apple uses a bunch of different vendors, but it seems that the cards are of extremely high quality, better than most retail RAM. The only places I have personally seen RAM with similar failure rates are from OWC and Crucial. OWC buys from many vendors, and Crucial is generally Micron silicon.

Your hard disk and the hard disk cable were replaced. I don't think that the HD failure is directly related to the bad RAM it seems that you have received from OWC, but call AppleCare and ask specifically about your machine.

Pierre B. · Nov 25, 2004, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by tooki:
There's simply no way that bad RAM could have damaged a cable. (Other than the RAM catching fire and burning up the whole machine, but I'm pretty confident that didn't happen.)

What about electrostatic discharge while installing memory? If I am not mistaken, it can do some serious damage, perhaps not burn a cable, but serious nonetheless.

tooki · Nov 25, 2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by bighead:
The only places I have personally seen RAM with similar failure rates are from OWC and Crucial. OWC buys from many vendors, and Crucial is generally Micron silicon.

Crucial is always Micron: Crucial is Micron's end-user brand name. It's the same company.

tooki

macaddict0001 · Nov 25, 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
What about electrostatic discharge while installing memory? If I am not mistaken, it can do some serious damage, perhaps not burn a cable, but serious nonetheless.

I beleive the consstruction of the powerbook forces you to touch a metal part of the case when accessing the ram.

bighead · Nov 25, 2004, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
Crucial is always Micron: Crucial is Micron's end-user brand name. It's the same company.

tooki

On two occasions I've seen Crucial retail labels on cards that had non-Micron chips. In both instances, the chips themselves were labeled as Samsung.

wuzup101 · Nov 26, 2004, 04:39 AM

I've also heard of suprised people with crucial branded ram using samsung chips (also another type of chip that I can't remember). IIRC the reason was because micron could not supply enough chips to cope with the large demand on crucial and they had to outsorce and buy from other manufactures.

tooki · Nov 26, 2004, 10:29 AM

Hynix, perhaps?

I'd be very surprised if they did that, but I guess nothing's impossible! It just sounds about as likely as Maxtor buying drives from Seagate to put in their external drives.

tooki

romeosc · Nov 26, 2004, 10:54 AM

AppleCare has been so selective on repairs, that I recommend Safeware.com insurance about $60 / $1000 per year covers all including "mysterious" damage!

Even covers TiBook that fell in whirlpool!

bighead · Nov 26, 2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by tooki:
Hynix, perhaps?

I'd be very surprised if they did that, but I guess nothing's impossible! It just sounds about as likely as Maxtor buying drives from Seagate to put in their external drives.

tooki

My sister has a Toshiba Portege that's got a Fujitsu hard disk in it, and coincidentally, a friend has a Fujitsu LifeBook with a Toshiba hard disk.

I throw my hands up at stuff like that. I really do.