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craig1972 · Dec 1, 2004, 12:55 AM

Historical reason used to be the look etc. As far as hardware is concerned, latest Sony Vaios or Fujitsus are super sleek (and lighter than Powerbooks too). As far as desktop look and feel is concerned, I can get that Frutiger type and what-not even on Windows XP systems.

Security-wise etc, I am fairly happy with Windows. Have a NAT jig at home, use AVG, and Adaware plus other doohickeys that come and go, so that's not an issue with using Windows.

Now, I am seriously interested in a Mac. So I stopped by the local Tokyo store.

The 15 inch 1GB PB is base 352,000 yen (divide by 100 for a rough USD estimate, but I will summarize that later too). This is horrid given the price of a Sony Vaio.

Now comes the big thing.

Mouse -- that idiotic single button is 80s! People who are comfy with this setup, bless their hearts, but they have no idea what they're missing with right clicks. CTRL-click doesn't cut it for me because as it were, the keyboard is so far apart from the bloody click button (because of all the sleekness BS) that I stretch my thumbs and forefinger from here to Sweden.

Next -- software. The PB website says "Loaded with software". Yeah? Which one? Let's say I need email. I use Outlook on Windows, which does a lot of stuff -- calendaring, very advanced email management including junk filters and archiving and now with Google desktop even fast searching but I also have 80/20 Retriever or ISys:Email. What's the equivalent on Mac? I can buy the MS Office but that's 38,000 yen.

I need Windows Xp for sure, because of work apps (VPN, plus database servers etc -- the dev environment). I am told emulation was possible but VPC costs an additional 30,000 yen, plus I have seen the emulation folks -- it sucks mammoth rocks, it's like a 486 with Win 3.1 in the barn: Unusuable. (I tested the 1gig RAM 15 inch PB in the store)

Next, I want:

1. Adobe Photoshop
2. Indesign
3. Illustrator
4. Macromedia Dreamweaver
5. Fireworks (plus a PNG compressor like PNGGauntlet)
6. Flash
7. Trillian (for IM)
8. Acrobat 6.0 Professional
9. A coding text editor like Ultraedit or PSPad
10. Eclipse (Java dev environment)
11. Apache / PHP dev environment
12. FTP software
13. Quickbooks for personal accounting
14. Free antivirus

Total of these costs a bomb. Warranty for 3 years costs 45,000 yen alone. Some of the above such as Trillian etc are not even available for Mac.

Grand Total: 1,000,000 yen. That's about 10,000 USD guys.

Am I on the wrong end of the joke?!! With Windows I have access to a bunch of utilities -- heck, check on Sourceforge, most apps are available for Windows first, what is Apple doing to lure these freebie developers to consider developing for Apple? When are we going to get humbly priced software for mac?

Also, for windows, we have a bunch of "options" (depending on one's morality) if we find software unaffordable -- what for Mac?

I don't mean to be negative, but hey, someone please please please tell me why I should join this cultic craze for PBs? What does it give me that a well-tuned Vaio or Fujitsu or even a knobby Dell cannot give?

CM

MrForgetable · Dec 1, 2004, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by craig1972:
Historical reason used to be the look etc. As far as hardware is concerned, latest Sony Vaios or Fujitsus are super sleek (and lighter than Powerbooks too). As far as desktop look and feel is concerned, I can get that Frutiger type and what-not even on Windows XP systems.
yeah, in america, if you want one of those super sleek vaios (that are lighter than the powerbooks) you will be giving up the performance, optical drives, better components, and the price.

Security-wise etc, I am fairly happy with Windows. Have a NAT jig at home, use AVG, and Adaware plus other doohickeys that come and go, so that's not an issue with using Windows.
same here. i run ME at home and had never had a problem (some blue screens but not often ]

Now, I am seriously interested in a Mac. So I stopped by the local Tokyo store.
[i]yep, best way to do it[/]
The 15 inch 1GB PB is base 352,000 yen (divide by 100 for a rough USD estimate, but I will summarize that later too). This is horrid given the price of a Sony Vaio.
yeah that is quite expensive compared to the US price. $3520US for a previous revision laptop?!? i understand the price issue
Now comes the big thing.

Mouse -- that idiotic single button is 80s! People who are comfy with this setup, bless their hearts, but they have no idea what they're missing with right clicks. CTRL-click doesn't cut it for me because as it were, the keyboard is so far apart from the bloody click button (because of all the sleekness BS) that I stretch my thumbs and forefinger from here to Sweden.
i have 8 buttons on my mouse and it cost me $20US. most of my work is done on the desk anyway. if all you will be doing is going on the road, maybe it isn't the computer for you. control+click isn't that hard, but i agree, annoying

Next -- software. The PB website says "Loaded with software". Yeah? Which one? Let's say I need email. I use Outlook on Windows, which does a lot of stuff -- calendaring, very advanced email management including junk filters and archiving and now with Google desktop even fast searching but I also have 80/20 Retriever or ISys:Email. What's the equivalent on Mac? I can buy the MS Office but that's 38,000 yen.
let's see. it comes with mail (default email app), itunes (music), imovie, iDVD, iChat, Safari, iPhoto, iCal, and the fun to play with garageband. i don't use any email programs so i can't answer this question.

I need Windows Xp for sure, because of work apps (VPN, plus database servers etc -- the dev environment). I am told emulation was possible but VPC costs an additional 30,000 yen, plus I have seen the emulation folks -- it sucks mammoth rocks, it's like a 486 with Win 3.1 in the barn: Unusuable. (I tested the 1gig RAM 15 inch PB in the store)
yeah if you want to use photoshop in XP, maybe you should get a PC. VPC is good for simple things, but it is really like 233mhz emulated

Next, I want:

1. Adobe Photoshop
(Adobe Creative Suite is about $1400 US?)
2. Indesign (comes with the Adobe CS)
3. Illustrator (Comes with the adobe CS)
4. Macromedia Dreamweaver (MX studio)
5. Fireworks (plus a PNG compressor like PNGGauntlet)(think it comes with MX studio?)
6. Flash (comes with MX studio)
7. Trillian (for IM)
www.adiumx.com is your friend, best IM app evar
8. Acrobat 6.0 Professional comes with adobe CS
9. A coding text editor like Ultraedit or PSPad
10. Eclipse (Java dev environment)
11. Apache / PHP dev environment
12. FTP software
13. Quickbooks for personal accounting computer comes with it
14. Free antivirus you don't need it

Total of these costs a bomb. Warranty for 3 years costs 45,000 yen alone. Some of the above such as Trillian etc are not even available for Mac.
yeah warranty is a luxury. i'd recommend it though. like i said before, adium owns trillian.

Grand Total: 1,000,000 yen. That's about 10,000 USD guys.
yeah that's a lot

Am I on the wrong end of the joke?!! With Windows I have access to a bunch of utilities -- heck, check on Sourceforge, most apps are available for Windows first, what is Apple doing to lure these freebie developers to consider developing for Apple? When are we going to get humbly priced software for mac?
www.versiontracker.com is your best bet for freeware/shareware

Also, for windows, we have a bunch of "options" (depending on one's morality) if we find software unaffordable -- what for Mac?
i do not understand. not sure you can talk about it on this forum.
I don't mean to be negative, but hey, someone please please please tell me why I should join this cultic craze for PBs? What does it give me that a well-tuned Vaio or Fujitsu or even a knobby Dell cannot give?
Mac OS X

CM

andretan · 02:22 AM

This was supposed to be a fairly long post, but I decided against it.

My advice:
Buy a PC, be it a VAIO or a DELL, or whatever.
Buy a Mac only when you've stopped having a PC-user mentality (ie; that everything should be free/cheap).

ddma · Dec 1, 2004, 02:23 AM

Mouse -- that idiotic single button is 80s! People who are comfy with this setup, bless their hearts, but they have no idea what they're missing with right clicks. CTRL-click doesn't cut it for me because as it were, the keyboard is so far apart from the bloody click button (because of all the sleekness BS) that I stretch my thumbs and forefinger from here to Sweden.

If you have seriously looked at the design of the GUI design of Mac OS X, you won't miss that the entire design concept is right-click aware. You barely need the right click... Come on, why would we want 2-button mouse when we don't have to use it??

Next -- software. The PB website says "Loaded with software". Yeah? Which one? Let's say I need email. I use Outlook on Windows, which does a lot of stuff -- calendaring, very advanced email management including junk filters and archiving and now with Google desktop even fast searching but I also have 80/20 Retriever or ISys:Email. What's the equivalent on Mac? I can buy the MS Office but that's 38,000 yen.

Are you sure you have looked at Apple website? We have Mail.app, iCal, iSync, Address Book which all mix together form a better solution than Outlook on Windows. Can you sync your mobile phone via bluetoon at the same time, having .Mac to sync your bookmarks, addressbook contacts and ical to the web base interface and broswe it anytime, anywhere? Oh, did I mention it also sync with other Mac if you have more than one computers? Btw, if you are running Windows, you need to buy Office for your PC too, am I right?

I need Windows Xp for sure, because of work apps (VPN, plus database servers etc -- the dev environment). I am told emulation was possible but VPC costs an additional 30,000 yen, plus I have seen the emulation folks -- it sucks mammoth rocks, it's like a 486 with Win 3.1 in the barn: Unusuable. (I tested the 1gig RAM 15 inch PB in the store)

Obviously, if your work requires you to use a PC, why bother to get a Mac? A computer is a tool which helps you to get your job done. Think about it, you miss you points arguing here.

Next, I want:

1. Adobe Photoshop
2. Indesign
3. Illustrator
4. Macromedia Dreamweaver
5. Fireworks (plus a PNG compressor like PNGGauntlet)
6. Flash
7. Trillian (for IM)
8. Acrobat 6.0 Professional
9. A coding text editor like Ultraedit or PSPad
10. Eclipse (Java dev environment)
11. Apache / PHP dev environment
12. FTP software
13. Quickbooks for personal accounting
14. Free antivirus

Total of these costs a bomb. Warranty for 3 years costs 45,000 yen alone. Some of the above such as Trillian etc are not even available for Mac.

Are you sure those are free on PC?? C'mon, that's not the point of arguing PC is better than Mac. They do cost you the same price for Windows too! Btw, we don't need Antivirus... FTP and Apache servers are built-in Mac OS X... and... Virtually Mac OS X native supports viewing and converting PDF documents... Proteus is muilt-instant messenger which is way better than Trillian on PC...

Am I on the wrong end of the joke?!! With Windows I have access to a bunch of utilities -- heck, check on Sourceforge, most apps are available for Windows first, what is Apple doing to lure these freebie developers to consider developing for Apple? When are we going to get humbly priced software for mac?

Many open source software are made for Mac too... Just you are a PC guy so you don't forcus on Mac software development.

I don't mean to be negative, but hey, someone please please please tell me why I should join this cultic craze for PBs? What does it give me that a well-tuned Vaio or Fujitsu or even a knobby Dell cannot give?

Honestly, if you still think so negative about Mac... Probably, Vaio or Fujitsu would be a better choice. But, of course, we would be disappointed to lose you in this family. But, you have to make choice.

CM

D.

RMXO · Dec 1, 2004, 02:57 AM

Originally posted by craig1972:
Historical reason used to be the look etc. As far as hardware is concerned, latest Sony Vaios or Fujitsus are super sleek (and lighter than Powerbooks too). As far as desktop look and feel is concerned, I can get that Frutiger type and what-not even on Windows XP systems.

Security-wise etc, I am fairly happy with Windows. Have a NAT jig at home, use AVG, and Adaware plus other doohickeys that come and go, so that's not an issue with using Windows.

Now, I am seriously interested in a Mac. So I stopped by the local Tokyo store.

The 15 inch 1GB PB is base 352,000 yen (divide by 100 for a rough USD estimate, but I will summarize that later too). This is horrid given the price of a Sony Vaio.

Now comes the big thing.

Mouse -- that idiotic single button is 80s! People who are comfy with this setup, bless their hearts, but they have no idea what they're missing with right clicks. CTRL-click doesn't cut it for me because as it were, the keyboard is so far apart from the bloody click button (because of all the sleekness BS) that I stretch my thumbs and forefinger from here to Sweden.

Next -- software. The PB website says "Loaded with software". Yeah? Which one? Let's say I need email. I use Outlook on Windows, which does a lot of stuff -- calendaring, very advanced email management including junk filters and archiving and now with Google desktop even fast searching but I also have 80/20 Retriever or ISys:Email. What's the equivalent on Mac? I can buy the MS Office but that's 38,000 yen.

I need Windows Xp for sure, because of work apps (VPN, plus database servers etc -- the dev environment). I am told emulation was possible but VPC costs an additional 30,000 yen, plus I have seen the emulation folks -- it sucks mammoth rocks, it's like a 486 with Win 3.1 in the barn: Unusuable. (I tested the 1gig RAM 15 inch PB in the store)

Next, I want:

1. Adobe Photoshop
2. Indesign
3. Illustrator
4. Macromedia Dreamweaver
5. Fireworks (plus a PNG compressor like PNGGauntlet)
6. Flash
7. Trillian (for IM)
8. Acrobat 6.0 Professional
9. A coding text editor like Ultraedit or PSPad
10. Eclipse (Java dev environment)
11. Apache / PHP dev environment
12. FTP software
13. Quickbooks for personal accounting
14. Free antivirus

Total of these costs a bomb. Warranty for 3 years costs 45,000 yen alone. Some of the above such as Trillian etc are not even available for Mac.

Grand Total: 1,000,000 yen. That's about 10,000 USD guys.

Am I on the wrong end of the joke?!! With Windows I have access to a bunch of utilities -- heck, check on Sourceforge, most apps are available for Windows first, what is Apple doing to lure these freebie developers to consider developing for Apple? When are we going to get humbly priced software for mac?

Also, for windows, we have a bunch of "options" (depending on one's morality) if we find software unaffordable -- what for Mac?

I don't mean to be negative, but hey, someone please please please tell me why I should join this cultic craze for PBs? What does it give me that a well-tuned Vaio or Fujitsu or even a knobby Dell cannot give?

CM

if you asking us to convince you to switch to a Mac then you have come to the wrong place. we are not here to convince you of anything. or are you here to pick a fight, but i will bite though. first off, your whole arguement has more holes than american swiss cheese.

with that said, lets take a look of a few things you listed.

adware:

how often do you hear about a Mac user b1tching about adware slowing down his/her Mac? hmmm...... none on this board.

virus:

im not saying we cant get a virus but how often do you hear a Mac user b1tching about getting a virus? hmmm.... see adware

do you not realize that Microsoft does make Office for Mac? latest version is called Office 2004. i will even provide you a link: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/

lets talk about utilities:

once again you failed to do your homework. we have sites like : http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/ &
http://www.macupdate.com/

not only do they list shareware, they also have freeware there.

sourceforge for windows only? please! sourceforge has mac software there also. you can google it if you would like.

your list of software:

we have those version for Mac & some. plus we have Apache built in. does Windows have that? ........... still waiting. if you want to Dev than we have X-Code for that. free of charge with your powerbook.

about trillian:

we have something called Proteus

Mac isnt for everyone, nor is Windows. chose what you like, since it seems you complaining about $$$, then stick to windows & be happy. we Mac users are happy with what we have.

i would go on but its getting late. so next time you decide to come here & blab non-sense, do all us a favor & do your homework first. all you doing is making a fool of yourself.

oh BTW, +1

craig1972 · Dec 1, 2004, 05:42 AM

"blab nonsense" -- i can see why mac is and perhaps always will be a small fringe community. i posted a set of questions after a frantic day trying to get info out of idiots who pass for mac salesfolk (memo to apple: if you spend a fortune on the store, at least hire sales people who can answer questions) with legitimate questions of price. answer? "go be happy with windows world where you have free stuff".

well of course i'll do that you twit, because it not only makes economic sense (as products should make, regardless of what your minor brain believes) i also have everything that mac has and much more on the windows platform now (and sooner rather than later, on SuSE as well).

anyway mine was meant to be a serious post, and another board already has intelligent responses, so dont bother, enjoy your expensive life on the periphery

craig1972 · Dec 1, 2004, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by andretan:
Buy a Mac only when you've stopped having a PC-user mentality (ie; that everything should be free/cheap).

It's called economic choice. If an alternative offers same or better satisfaction for a lower price point, it often takes a fool to choose the other alternative. Which explains why 98% of the world is still rational and doesn't want to spend 10K USD on something that could and should cost nowhere more than 3K.

Have fun

Captain Obvious · 06:05 AM

So buy a PC. No one is making you buy a powerbook.
If you are going to cry poverty then buy the cheapest PC possible. If you are going to complain about the additional costs of software take the risk of getting caught and pirate it. If you are unwilling to use the comparable programs of the ones you are currently accustom to then don't complain about the world not revolving around you.

Seriously, no one cares if you buy a powerbook.
Get a PC, and move on. No one here will much care.
And the level of satisfaction I derive from not using a PC is much higher than you think. It far outweighs the cost you think to be a premium price. If you are not satisfied with the cost of usage then simply don�t buy the product. There is no compelling force for you to do so by your rational so let your opinion dictate how you use your resources.

98% of the world does not own computers and if price were the determining factor then there are free operating systems available. Windows seems affordable because of the subsidized price Microsoft gives manufacturers in order to get them to include the operating system with their computers. You�d be a fool not to take into account the real reasons marketshare is what it is. None of them are based on economic sense it is based on business strategies which you have demonstrated you are entirely ignorant to.
The corporate profit in using MS is not in buying a PC with Windows but in the future costs that will be associated with using their other products and the habits the users will form causing them to become dependant on the company�s software.

BTW I am not the periphery. I am an elitist.
And your financial matters are inconsequential to me. Buy a PC.

Maflynn · Dec 1, 2004, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by craig1972:
"blab nonsense" -- i can see why mac is and perhaps always will be a small fringe community. i posted a set of questions after a frantic day trying to get info out of idiots who pass for mac salesfolk (memo to apple: if you spend a fortune on the store, at least hire sales people who can answer questions) with legitimate questions of price. answer? "go be happy with windows world where you have free stuff".

Well, sounds like you want to get a PC, its your money and your have to be happy with it.

As for the mouse, you can always get a 2 button version, in fact it seems most people don't the stock mouse (apple or pc).

The Mac has a lot over the PC; I don't have to worry about the incessent secuirty patches from MS, the adware, spyware, viruses.

I spend so much time on my wife's computer trying to clean up the adware/spyware. Its behind a linysys switch, has a virus check, and two adware/spyware applications yet I need to continually clean that up. If that's what you want more power to ya.

You should be less hostile in your postings, people take their Mac's serious and if your truly asking for help you shouldn't come off so trollish. If you already of the applications, such as photoshop and do not want to buy a whole suite of them or spend the money on the hardware, then a mac is not for you. Just don't knock us who chooses otherwise.

Mike

urrl78 · Dec 1, 2004, 06:56 AM

beside mac are collest yeah on planetary systom. booya.

Toutgood · Dec 1, 2004, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by craig1972:
It's called economic choice. If an alternative offers same or better satisfaction for a lower price point, it often takes a fool to choose the other alternative. Which explains why 98% of the world is still rational and doesn't want to spend 10K USD on something that could and should cost nowhere more than 3K.

Have fun

As I understand it this is a problem about the price differential between Apple Japan and Apple US. In the US you can get a 15" pb (1.33 ghz) for 1,999 USD, whereas on the apple.jp site the same pb is: 2,242.57 USD. The 1.5 ghz is roughly 2,850 USD as opposed to 2,499. The Japanese prices are including tax, where as the US prices aren't. I find that the prices are actually getting better. These prices were obtained using xe.com by the way.

Maybe if you compared specs rather than make exaggerations and generalisations we could be more helpful.

There are lots of us here, and we're not all fools so you may be missing something.

JKT · Dec 1, 2004, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by craig1972:
anyway mine was meant to be a serious post, and another board already has intelligent responses, so dont bother, enjoy your expensive life on the periphery

Unfortunately, you may have intended it as a serious post but it came across as a typical Mac bashing idiotic troll couched in "I want to buy a Mac" language. Look at your post - you don't ask for advice or opinions, you post a lot of wildly incorrect troll-ish assertions that already show that you have no interest at all in buying a Mac (such as it would cost you $10, 000 to get a Mac and that owning a PowerBook means you are a part of a cultic craze). If you had bothered to be more polite, you would have received a lot of the help or advice that you claim you wanted. If you don't believe me, search the forum for posts by people wanting to switch to see how helpful people here can be.

jasonsRX7 · Dec 1, 2004, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by craig1972:
It's called economic choice. If an alternative offers same or better satisfaction for a lower price point, it often takes a fool to choose the other alternative. Which explains why 98% of the world is still rational and doesn't want to spend 10K USD on something that could and should cost nowhere more than 3K.

Have fun

I think you might actually be certifiably insane.

1. A visit to the Apple Japan online store reveals the base 15" model is 230,790 yen. (288,540 if you upgrade to 1gb ram. Still less than 350,000 like you said. You must be adding more options than what you're saying to jack the price up)

2. People aren't missing as much as you think by only having one mouse button. Most mac applications are designed around it, so it's not really a hinderance. But I can see why you think this would be an issue. Fair enough.

3. You use Outlook for email. It's not free (unless you steal it). The Powerbook will have Mail, iCal, and iSync installed which together perform the same functions as Outlook. No reason to buy (or steal) Outlook.

4. Your software arguement is what really makes me think you might be a few bricks short of an outhouse. The commercial applications you listed are all available on the mac, and cost the same as their Windows based counterparts. But you're not interested in buying software, you're really interested in stealing it, right? I mean, that's what you meant when you said you had a "bunch of 'options' (depending on one's morality) if we find software unaffordable" right? Well lucky you, because there's nothing preventing you (certainly not your morality) from stealing software on the mac, too.

When doing a mac vs PC price comparison, don't factor in the cost of software for a mac and not include it in the cost of the PC. It's obvious that's what you were doing.

5. Proteus on the mac kicks Trillians ass sideways. I quit using Trillian in favor of Miranda (on the pc) at work. See, I administer a Windows based network for a living, so I do know a thing or two about the Windows world, I just *prefer* macs.

6. I run VMware on a few of our systems here at work, and it's no speed demon either. VPC is just as viable as VMware from a performance perspective.

Dude, if you just can't afford a mac, then buy a PC. Or maybe break into the Apple store and steal one, since you don't seem to have a problem with that. But Powerbooks aren't any more expensive than comparable PC laptops with the same features. And your software arguement was so stupid I seriously have doubts as to whether you're capable of bathing yourself.

I highly suggest you get a clue

wuzup101 · Dec 1, 2004, 10:00 AM

BTW there's also a nice little app called sidetrack. It just became shareware (used to be freeware). Anyway $15USD buys you a program that lets you completely customize your track pad. Scroll vertically and horizontally, assign the 4 corners to unique key strokes/button combinations (such as right click or expose). And, why we're on that, expose is one feature that windows users (especially those using smaller laptop screans) wish they had... just another reason to use OSX.

Clearly you're not happy with the pricing, but here in the US the Powerbook competes very evenly with it's PC equivalents (IBM T42.. sony etc...). If you factor in the software (all of which you mentioned is avaliable btw or a substitute that works better is) then you have to factor it in in the PC world too... that is unless you already own a legal copy of the software for your PC... and this is a perfectly viable reason not to buy a copy... though many companies (I know macromedia allows this) allow you to transfer a lisence free of charge and they provide you with the software (you can download it via macromedia's web site as long as you have a legal key...

Xisiqomelir · Dec 1, 2004, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by craig1972:Security-wise etc, I am fairly happy with Windows.

Hi I stopped reading your post after this. I think you need a Mac because everyone does, but perhaps you need a little spell of OpenBSD to teach you about security first.

chrisutley · Dec 1, 2004, 11:47 AM

I stopped reading at, "Now comes the big thing. Mouse -- that idiotic single button is 80s!"

The mouse is the big thing, eh? I also don't understand why he rattled off a list of software that is more or less the same on either platform. Nothing more than a troll. I can find you a number of articles from mainstream press citing that Macs are very competitive to their PC counterparts when you do a fair and balanced comparison from top to bottom. Anybody can find examples to the contrary going in either direction, but skewing a variety of things.

vodkajello · Dec 1, 2004, 04:07 PM

1. Outlook is not free on any platform. Never has been, probably never will be.

2. Apple does tend to gouge on calculating exchange rates on their prices. It sucks for anyone not in the USA.

3. All of the apps you listed are either available on Mac directly or have high quality alternatives.

Your price was a bit high. It looks like to must have done quite a few upgrades to get it that high.

Anyways. If you do get one you won't be disappointed. They are a high quality computer with a really nice OS, good tech help from Apple, and wide availablity of software from commercial and open source.

solitere · Dec 1, 2004, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by craig1972:

I don't mean to be negative, but hey, someone please please please tell me why I should join this cultic craze for PBs? What does it give me that a well-tuned Vaio or Fujitsu or even a knobby Dell cannot give?

CM

how about peece!

UnixMac · Dec 1, 2004, 04:23 PM

This of it like this, since you are a car guy with a Honda S2000...

A generic PC, or a Gateway or Dell can be compared to a Chevy.
A higher end nice PC laptop from Sony, maybe to your S2000.
A Powerbook is more like a BMW or Audi..

It's just about engineering, quality, style and class...

You could argue all day long that a Honda is as nice as a BMW, more reliable, and faster etc....

but 99% of people in the world still want the BMW.

If you need convincing to understand what separates the Mac from a Dell or Sony, you probably will never "Get it"

UnixMac · Dec 1, 2004, 04:45 PM

also..

$10000 is for the system with all of this software:

1. Adobe Photoshop
2. Indesign
3. Illustrator
4. Macromedia Dreamweaver
5. Fireworks (plus a PNG compressor like PNGGauntlet)
6. Flash
7. Trillian (for IM)
8. Acrobat 6.0 Professional
9. A coding text editor like Ultraedit or PSPad
10. Eclipse (Java dev environment)
11. Apache / PHP dev environment
12. FTP software
13. Quickbooks for personal accounting
14. Free antivirus

now... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 10 all cost the same on PC... so I'm not sure how you save money with the PC..

the others are either free on mac, or have an equal that is.

So you $10000... is not a fair or accurate figure..

now I spent close to $10000 on my recent mac, and priced a PC (AMD 64 x 2) system with same RAM, same size screen and same internals... and it only came in at a $1100 over the price of the AMD... that said, I have OS X the best consumer Unix available which makes XP look like the original TRS-80 as far as I'm concerned.

MrForgetable · Dec 1, 2004, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by UnixMac:
also..

$10000 is for the system with all of this software:

1. Adobe Photoshop
2. Indesign
3. Illustrator
4. Macromedia Dreamweaver
5. Fireworks (plus a PNG compressor like PNGGauntlet)
6. Flash
7. Trillian (for IM)
8. Acrobat 6.0 Professional
9. A coding text editor like Ultraedit or PSPad
10. Eclipse (Java dev environment)
11. Apache / PHP dev environment
12. FTP software
13. Quickbooks for personal accounting
14. Free antivirus

now... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 10 all cost the same on PC... so I'm not sure how you save money with the PC..

the others are either free on mac, or have an equal that is.

So you $10000... is not a fair or accurate figure..

now I spent close to $10000 on my recent mac, and priced a PC (AMD 64 x 2) system with same RAM, same size screen and same internals... and it only came in at a $1100 over the price of the AMD... that said, I have OS X the best consumer Unix available which makes XP look like the original TRS-80 as far as I'm concerned.

read down and he mentions "pirating" the more expensive software because he may not be able to afford it.

Also, for windows, we have a bunch of "options" (depending on one's morality) if we find software unaffordable -- what for Mac?

UnixMac · Dec 1, 2004, 07:11 PM

My bad... that's what happens when you try to do 10 things at once!! I even thought he had the S2000!!!!!

MrForgetable · Dec 1, 2004, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by UnixMac:
My bad... that's what happens when you try to do 10 things at once!! I even thought he had the S2000!!!!!

you certainly have the computer to do 10 things at once

UnixMac · Dec 1, 2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by MrForgetable:
you certainly have the computer to do 10 things at once

Yeah.. I'm still struggling to keep up with it!

andretan · Dec 1, 2004, 09:56 PM

UnixMac · Dec 1, 2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by andretan:

cool picture... so what's it mean?

MrForgetable · Dec 1, 2004, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by UnixMac:
cool picture... so what's it mean?

Lock

slffl · Dec 2, 2004, 12:19 PM

Simply, the Al powerbooks and OS X are the greatest pieces of computer equipment I have ever used. I have used a PC and Mac side-by-side, 8 hours a day, for 2 years now. The PB kills every other laptop I have ever used. And OSX cannot be beat in power and ease of use.

Mac isn't a 'cult', it's people who can think for themselves and aren't brainwashed by marketing and brand names.

sheer · Dec 2, 2004, 02:08 PM

bah

macintologist · Dec 2, 2004, 02:41 PM

I welcome the trolls. Bring it on!

nagromme · Dec 2, 2004, 02:45 PM

Short answer: OS X really IS better in many ways than Windows. You're happy with Windows because it's what you know--I've been there!--but once you've used OS X a while, what you called "acceptable" before won't be anymore. You'll be spoiled. Your computer will step out of your way and let you do your thing--and you'll be amazed that you never noticed how much IN the way Windows was before.

There's a reason Mac fans love their Macs, and Windows fans merely tolerate their PCs. Take the time to explore--and consider waiting for Jan. 10, when announcements (at the least) of new PowerBooks and the new Tiger OS are likely.

And when comparing models, look at ALL the features, not just the catchy numbers. PowerBooks are loaded.

You may even find you don't have to buy new software--OS X's Mail/iCal/etc. might just win you over. Try them a few weeks before sinking cash into Office, for sure.

And remember you can hang onto your PC too. The two machines will get along nicely.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

Lancer409 · Dec 6, 2004, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by andretan:

+1 .. lock this thing already. It's amazing how one troll gets us to take the time to talk about how he's a troll .. screwbie ... the guy's a moron. nuff said ... now move along folks .. nothing to see here

UnixMac · Dec 6, 2004, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by slffl:
Simply, the Al powerbooks and OS X are the greatest pieces of computer equipment I have ever used. I have used a PC and Mac side-by-side, 8 hours a day, for 2 years now. The PB kills every other laptop I have ever used. And OSX cannot be beat in power and ease of use.

Mac isn't a 'cult', it's people who can think for themselves and aren't brainwashed by marketing and brand names.

I can attest as I just got a new PB AI... AND I LOVE IT! Sure it's only as fast as a similar clock speed Pentium - M for the most part, but that's plenty fast enough for a laptop.. When I need horse power, I have 2 X 2.5 G5s at home!

GET THE DAMN LAPTOP ALREADY!