[absolut78]

Don't laugh or snicker... I am a very new PB user and I am not sure if this is the right terminology, but I am trying to defrag my HD just for something to do at work. but really, I bought a 2nd hand PB and I am trying to make sure it runs at it's best. Also, is there a right way to 'uninstall' programs? I have been adding them to the trash... that just can't be right.

Joe

[Luca Rescigno]

I have been adding them to the trash... that just can't be right.

Actually, that is the proper way of "uninstalling" programs from OS X. Drag application to trash. Done. Seems crazy to many long-time Windows users, but it really is that simple in 95% of cases.

As for defragging, it's probably not necessary. OS X doesn't fragment the hard drive nearly as much as Windows does. There's no included defrag utility so the only way you're going to be able to do it is by either buying something or by wiping the hard drive completely and reinstalling the OS. But like I said, you shouldn't be forced to.

[absolut78]

Coolness! I learn everyday that using OSX is easier than Windows. I wonder why so many Windows users are scared of MAC.

Joe

[iREZ]

Learn this well capital M lowercase a lowercase c, or else we'll shoot ya.

[Spheric Harlot]

IIRC, OS X will automatically defragment all documents less than 20 MB in size.

And yeah, it's "Mac". We're pretty touchy when it comes to that, for the most part.

[macaddict0001]

Many people are scared of spiders, is it rational? no but it is a fact.

[tkmd]

If only more people become enlightend about the joys of using a Mac.

[absolut78]

Mac... even that is easier. Thanks guys.

[vinster]

Thought I'd go into a bit more detail regarding defragging (known as optimization in the Mac world) and uniinstalling applications.

There are two utilities that will optimize your files in a contiguous order that I'm aware of. They are Drive 10 and Tech Tool Pro, both by a company called Micromat. OS X's built-in optimization will do the job for smaller files but it won't reorder the whole disk like these utilities will. Also, journalling (enabled by default) must be turned on in order to take advantage of this feature.

In regards to uninstalling applications, besides trashing the application/application folder you should check the preferences folder located in the library folder in your home directory as well as the library folder at the root of the hard drive. Some applications will also place files in the application support folder located in the library folders. You can usually find these related files by searching by the application's name. A few larger programs may install 'system' files such as extensions, file systems, etc. Most of the time, these applications will have an uninstall function that will get rid of those.

Be careful not to modify any files located in the system folder at the root of your hard drive. This folder should be left alone unless you know exactly what you're doing as messing with it could render your system unbootable.

[pdot]

If you were willinig to go through the trouble of defragging and uninstalling apps just to get your computer in tip-top shape, I would suggest you reformat the HD and install a fresh OS. That would help with any defragging worries (not that you have to worry about that) and any leftover junk (minor stuff like .plist files) from apps you don't need.

[iREZ]

Onyx optimizes as well, not to mention runs scripts, repairs permissions and can do some cool stuff to your dock.

[tooki]

Originally posted by vinster:
Thought I'd go into a bit more detail regarding defragging (known as optimization in the Mac world) and uniinstalling applications.

There are two utilities that will optimize your files in a contiguous order that I'm aware of. They are Drive 10 and Tech Tool Pro, both by a company called Micromat. OS X's built-in optimization will do the job for smaller files but it won't reorder the whole disk like these utilities will. Also, journalling (enabled by default) must be turned on in order to take advantage of this feature.

1. Defragmenting is an invasive procedure, so to speak, because it uproots every single file. Data loss is possible, so it's highly advisable to do a backup first. Of course, once you have a backup, you could just erase the drive and restore back, which would result in a completely defragmented drive.

2. Journaling does not need to be on for Mac OS X to automatically defragment. That said, there's no compelling reason for anyone to turn off journaling.

3. Mac OS X automatically puts critical files into the fastest part of the disk, with a function called hot file clustering. Any defragmenting tool that attempts to re-order the files will actually ruin the highly optimized ordering done by the OS.

4. Just FYI, DiskWarrior's "optimization" is NOT defragmenting. It's directory maintenance. This function is not invasive like file defragmentation.


The upshot of all this is: don't defragment. You put your data at risk, and in return, you risk either getting little improvement, or actually hurting system performance.


As for Onyx: don't clear the caches unless you are having problems. The caches are there to help things run smoothly, and removing them means the system is forced to re-create them, which slows things down.

Also just FYI, the Mac's startup process runs a filesystem check on the boot drive. So even that's done for you.

I realize that for many of you, the urge to keep the old habit of constantly monkeying with the computer is strong. But Mac OS X (especially Panther) is self-maintaining, and utility use is really only appropriate as a troubleshooting measure (NOT as a preventive measure).

tooki

[mrgaskell]

Look, tooki, defragmenting my drive makes it Snappy™! And makes me feel geekier. I may just start defraging from Terminal just to feel as geeky as possible. So !

[vinster]

Originally posted by tooki:
1. Defragmenting is an invasive procedure, so to speak, because it uproots every single file. Data loss is possible, so it's highly advisable to do a backup first. Of course, once you have a backup, you could just erase the drive and restore back, which would result in a completely defragmented drive.

2. Journaling does not need to be on for Mac OS X to automatically defragment. That said, there's no compelling reason for anyone to turn off journaling.

3. Mac OS X automatically puts critical files into the fastest part of the disk, with a function called hot file clustering. Any defragmenting tool that attempts to re-order the files will actually ruin the highly optimized ordering done by the OS.

<snip>

This tech note goes into a lot more detail about Apple's file system and some of the built-in auto-optimization routines in OS X.

You're correct that OS X version 10.3 will auto-defragment files as they are moved into the hot zone, but journaling does a more thorough job. It's a good feature but you can get a slight performance boost for applications that often write to the drive and save up to 512MB of journal-file space by turning it off.

Still, old habits die hard and I find myself wanting to get this new utility I ran across today and run it on my drives.

[Simon]

Vintser, if you really feel like wasting $$$ on the defrag tool, go ahead, but otherwise you should listen to Tooki because a) he's right b) he knows what he's talking about and c) because he's the boss here.

And BTW, what does journaling have to do with defragmentation? Nada, AFAIK.

[tooki]

Originally posted by vinster:
You're correct that OS X version 10.3 will auto-defragment files as they are moved into the hot zone, but journaling does a more thorough job. It's a good feature but you can get a slight performance boost for applications that often write to the drive and save up to 512MB of journal-file space by turning it off.

Ummm, you have all those things mixed up left and right.

Hot-file clustering and the automatic defragmenting are completely separate functions. Automatic defragging happens even on files that are not being moved to the hot zone.

Journaling has absolutely, positively, incontrovertibly nothing to do with hot-file clustering or automatic defragging. They are not related in any way.

Yes, disabling journaling increases performance slightly, but the amount of disk space used is negligible, and the speed penalty is so small as to be well worth the substantial stability benefits of using journaling.

tooki

[vinster]

Originally posted by tooki:
Ummm, you have all those things mixed up left and right.

Hot-file clustering and the automatic defragmenting are completely separate functions. Automatic defragging happens even on files that are not being moved to the hot zone.

Journaling has absolutely, positively, incontrovertibly nothing to do with hot-file clustering or automatic defragging. They are not related in any way.

Yes, disabling journaling increases performance slightly, but the amount of disk space used is negligible, and the speed penalty is so small as to be well worth the substantial stability benefits of using journaling.

tooki

Hmm... I thought journaling had to be enabled to take advantage of automatic file defragmentation (at least in Jaguar), but I must admit I can't find much supporting evidence to back up my theory, only this forum post and this forum post, which is where I may have got my assumptions from in the first place. ... but I can't find much supporting info. to say that you'll get automatic optimization and HFC with journalling disabled either.

I do agree that it's of little or no benefit to optimize with a third-party utility but if you want to be sure all files on a disk are contiguous then consider defragmenting with a third-party utility or restoring a full backup onto a clean HD.

[tooki]

It's certainly possible that Apple somehow tied those features together, but I've seen no evidence for it, and I don't see any reason for them to do so.

Considering the speed of modern hard drives, it's really not that bad a thing even if files do get fragmented. The only exception, really, is with time-sensitive media like audio and video. For those cases, a defragmenting tool can make sense, though it's definitely advisable to have a backup.

tooki

[urrl78]

I defrag with Techtool Pro because I am always moving video files, some times as large as 8 Gig or more. I think TT pro requires that I disable journaling before defragging. It also has a graph, like windows, to show you how much your HD is fragmented before and after you defrag. The e-drive feature is a valuable feature, as you can boot the 17" Powerbook from your exterior HD if you have problems. You can also wipe sensitive data you have erased so it will be untraceable and unrecoverable. These are some of the reasons I do not regret buying Techtool. Great product.

On another note; I read on another thread where zapping the PRAM could boost speed when opening aplications. I was getting a spinning beachball when opening some applications even after using ONYX and Techtool and Disk Utility. After zapping PRAM about 5 times the 17" was it's old speedy self again. This simple little procedure also works well for me.

[alphasubzero949]

TTP4 and PlusOptimizer (for those with OS9-bootable Macs and an old copy of DW 2.1) both require journaling to be OFF. Actually, PO wrecks the journaling file during optimization, so it ends up off anyway.

Personally, I found optimizing a hard drive to be a complete waste of time. My Macs used to go bonkers after optimization because on startup they would fumble around for the files, thus slowing down the startup time. It would take at least a reboot or two to get everything back up to speed.


As far as TTP, the only thing I got out of that program was a hosed hard drive using its selling point (the eDrive).

[Mojo]

Some time ago I used DiskWarrior to do some directory maintenance on my G3 iBook. DW produced a window telling me that the drive was so fragmented that it could not find enough "contiguous space" for a new directory...

Without a viable defragging utility I was forced to clone the drive to an external drive, reformat and then move everything back to the iBook.

If Apple's software really does defrag drives it isn't working properly on the iBook...

[anamexis]

Originally posted by Mojo:
Some time ago I used DiskWarrior to do some directory maintenance on my G3 iBook. DW produced a window telling me that the drive was so fragmented that it could not find enough "contiguous space" for a new directory...

Without a viable defragging utility I was forced to clone the drive to an external drive, reformat and then move everything back to the iBook.

If Apple's software really does defrag drives it isn't working properly on the iBook...

How long ago is "some time ago"? Before Panther or Jaguar?

Anyways, I have some friends who do live music performace with their PowerBooks (using Ableton Live). They often complain about the disks not being fast enough. They also noticed very noticeable performance increases when they disabled journaling.

So, if you do high-bandwidth audio or video work, and you keep backups of everything you do, it may be advantageous to disable journaling.

[Mojo]

It occured when I was running Panther...maybe 4-5 months ago.

[tooki]

Originally posted by Mojo:
Some time ago I used DiskWarrior to do some directory maintenance on my G3 iBook. DW produced a window telling me that the drive was so fragmented that it could not find enough "contiguous space" for a new directory...

Without a viable defragging utility I was forced to clone the drive to an external drive, reformat and then move everything back to the iBook.

If Apple's software really does defrag drives it isn't working properly on the iBook...

That's because Apple's defragger is a FILE defragmenter -- it does not concern itself with fragmented free space, only with making sure individual files are not fragmented, AND it only defragments files under 20MB.

Of course, the larger reason for not having enough space to run DiskWarrior to do the "safe" directory replacement is not having much free space left, period.

tooki

[psk-ele]

Tooki,

Thanks for the tip on this defrag topic. I haven't defragged in ages, and never really noticed a speed increase even when I did it back on my first iBook. Sounds like Apple is doing a wonderful job with OS X.

[Mojo]

I recall having between 1-2GB of free space at the time, which is why I was surprised that I had the problem.

[amazing]

Originally posted by Mojo:
I recall having between 1-2GB of free space at the time, which is why I was surprised that I had the problem.

It's been estimated that the VM scheme in X needs at least 1.5 GB of breathing room. In general you should keep at least 2-3 GB free space, a better margin would be 5 GB. With too little free space, X will start throwing up all sorts of weird problems.

iDefrap ia a new product that's just getting publicity. Anyone tried that yet?

[tooki]

Originally posted by Mojo:
I recall having between 1-2GB of free space at the time, which is why I was surprised that I had the problem.

By today's standards, and with Mac OS X's reliance on zillions of tiny files, 1-2GB is very little space.

That said, I've never seen DiskWarrior make a mistake, ever, and I've run it hundreds of times on Macs of my own and those of clients. I have no hesitation in running the no-failsafe directory replacement (heck, none of the other utilities even attempt a failsafe repair).

tooki

[driven]

Originally posted by absolut78:
Coolness! I learn everyday that using OSX is easier than Windows. I wonder why so many Windows users are scared of MAC.

Joe

When I first started with the Mac (using OS9) I also couldn't believe how simple an uninstall was. We (as Windows users) often "over-engineer" or "over-think" the problem.

[tooki]

Yup.

Apple does the thinking beforehand, so that the user doesn't have to.

tooki

[rambo47]

There's a good article on the Mac's automatic "housekeeping" feature over at OSXFAQ that has a link to a freeware program called MacJanitor.

You can also run the automatic maintenance scripts anytime you want with the Terminal application by using unix commands.

1. Open Terminal, located in Applications > Utilities.

2. type any of these commands (one at a time) to run either the daily,
weekly, or monthly maintenance routines:

sudo periodic daily
sudo periodic weekly
sudo periodic monthly

You will be asked for your administrator password. type in your password and hit return. Your computer may look like nothing is happening, but wait a minute or two. The daily routine is quick, but weekly and monthly are more involved and take more time. It's done when the Terminal shows: "your hard drive name":~ "your admin name"$

Your Mac is automatically set up to run these housekeeping routines (as explained in the OSXFAQ article) but you need to leave it running all the time. I run these scripts monthly myself.