[brutal]

http://www.apple.com

[AssassyN]

Interesting new features...


SMS = IBM's hard-drive stability thingy?

Trackpad scrolling? I think I've seen something like this on an HP lappy before, there's like ridges on the trackpad used like a scroller.

Dual-link DVI on the high-end 17" PB.

12" PB is STILL massively crippled.

High-end 17" PB features DIGITAL audio in/out.

It seems as if it's 5400rpm drives across the line, w/ a 100GB offered.

8x SuperDrive

And the BIGGEST MOVE FORWARD FOR APPLE: 512MB ACROSS THE LINE! This is a HUGE step in the right direction as Apple giving 256MB RAM to an OS X machine is a disgrace.

Nice to pass the time until G5 PBs

[Simon]

Nice, they dropped the prices as well.

This will be fine to get me across the rev A of the G5/7448 PowerBook. I'll sell of my rev B 12". Mmmmmh. New PowerBook.

[fisherKing]

nice enough...but not enough for me to replace my revC 12".

and means a longer wait until G5 pb...?


(and no backlite for the 12"...damn!)


other thoughts....?

[Voch]

Not bad. I like the speed increase and the $100 price drop on the 12" and the inclusion of a 5400RPM hard drive standard.

"Sudden Motion Sensor"? And the "new" trackpad (sounds like it's just software though).

Voch

[MarkLT1]

I like their implementation of the scrolling trackpad. Use 2 fingers to scroll, 1 to move the mouse. Pretty slick.

[Brazuca]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Trackpad scrolling? I think I've seen something like this on an HP lappy before, there's like ridges on the trackpad used like a scroller.

Actually, it looks like you just use two fingers to scroll around. When you move two fingers around the trackpad simultaneously, it scrolls up/down, left/right, and around a window.

Actually, this is very, very cool. I almost want one for this feature alone.

[Simon]

Their two-finger scrolling implementation is so typically Apple: everybody had something, and they come to the party late, but they show everybody how it should have been done in the first place. Great.

[Randman]

Originally posted by MarkLT1:
I like their implementation of the scrolling trackpad. Use 2 fingers to scroll, 1 to move the mouse. Pretty slick.

It's Sidetrack. A good move to incorporate it.

[groovn72]

Weird...

I went to the Apple store to pick up a Powerbook this past Saturday and they didn't have the one I wanted. The guy working at the store told me they only had combo-drives, I wanted one with a Superdrive to record DVDs. I had no clue that the new Powerbooks were going to come out today.

If they have the new Powerbooks in stock I'll buy one today (with my student discount ) and post a review of the new features.

Cool!

Barry

[chris v]

Waht? No G5?? Beleaguered! Beleaguered! Death knell! Death knell!


Dayum. Check the price on the 15" Superdrive. My 1YO 1.25 is finally looking a tad long-in-the-tooth.

[John123]

I'm not usually one to knock new product introductions, but these are particularly weak. They didn't even live up to the watered-down rumored hype (e.g., 100GB drives and 128MB video RAM standard on the high-end 15 inch).

I really can't imagine that this is one update that is really going to satisfy consumers. If sales increase, it's only because (a) channels were all dried up, meaning volume has nowhere to go but up, and (b) people were waiting to buy new models, regardless of how tiny and incrememental the improvement is.

I might be in the category (b) myself, but I'll certainly say that I hope the fact that these are so ho-hum indicates that Apple's best engineers have been working long and hard on something more dazzling for later this year.

[NYCFarmboy]

I wonder if they did anything about the lousy very poor quailty (in comparision to the 15 & 17") display screens on the 12" models?

[Simon]

Since they introduced these new PowerBooks on a monday, I'm wondering what will happen tomorrow...

[chris v]

Originally posted by John123:
I'm not usually one to knock new product introductions, but these are particularly weak. They didn't even live up to the watered-down rumored hype (e.g., 100GB drives and 128MB video RAM standard on the high-end 15 inch).

On the 15" do a BTO. Add a 100 GB drive and the 128 mb video option. Comes to $2499.00. Same as the old price.

[chabig]

Originally posted by Simon:
Since they introduced these new PowerBooks on a monday, I'm wondering what will happen tomorrow...

Yeah. This is weird...Monday?

[lookmark]

Originally posted by Randman:
It's Sidetrack. A good move to incorporate it.

No, I don't think it's Sidetrack... It's not mapping the trackpad surface; it seems like a new trackpad that incorporates the technology to recognize when two points of input are used instead of one.

Pretty neat.

[Voch]

Originally posted by chabig:
Yeah. This is weird...Monday?

Apple is just keeping us off our toes.

Voch

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Simon:
Since they introduced these new PowerBooks on a monday, I'm wondering what will happen tomorrow...

Why should anything special happen tomorrow ?

-t

[chabig]

Backlit keyboards are standard on the 15" and 17" models.

Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR

On the 12" model, it still has 256MB of RAM on the motherboard. The standard 512MB config includes a 256MB SODIMM. Max RAM is still 1.25 GB.

[tooki]

Originally posted by John123:
I'm not usually one to knock new product introductions, but these are particularly weak. They didn't even live up to the watered-down rumored hype

Maybe that's because most of the rumors are simply wish-lists, passed off as some sort of fact. See why I put exactly zero stock in rumors?

So instead of saying how the updated PowerBooks didn't "live up to" the hype, say the truth: the rumors didn't align with reality.

tooki

[Agasthya]

The 17" can now power the 30" Cinema Display

[Simon]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Why should anything special happen tomorrow ?

Normally Apple introduces stuff on Monday when they introduce even bigger stuff on Tuesday. Not a written rule, but it's happened a couple of times in the past...

[wunderkind]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I wonder if they did anything about the lousy very poor quailty (in comparision to the 15 & 17") display screens on the 12" models?

The same question I have. Given that still there's no backlit keyboard on the 12", a much better screen than in rev. A-C will be a good reason to upgrade.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by chabig:
Yeah. This is weird...Monday?

If I remember well, it is not the first time that new Powerbooks are introduced a Monday.

[jasonsRX7]

Maybe it's just a matter of time now before all Macs are shipping with 512mb. Or at least all the Powermacs.

[mrchin]

15" will do Dual Link as well with the $100 BTO card. So that seems like an awesome option for me. Wish it was built in though. Because, now, the 17" for 2699 looks tempting, whereas you don't have to add the video and larger HD and get digital audio.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by turtle777:

Why should anything special happen tomorrow ?

The Powerbook went EOL at the same time with the eMac. The rumors that predicted correctly the new Powerbooks, said also that the new eMacs will probably have a G5 processor. This could happen tomorrow, although I doubt it a little. But then, if it is ready why not?

[TailsToo]

I ordered a 15" with 128MB VRAM to replace my TI 3-5 Days plus 5 days shipping. Yeah, right. I'm not counting on seeing it before the end of Feb.

[JHromadka]

Originally posted by Simon:
Since they introduced these new PowerBooks on a monday, I'm wondering what will happen tomorrow...

Nothing. Apple did this to disprove the "New PowerBooks on Tuesday" rumor.

[wingnut16]

I order a 12" 1.33GHz 512M with a 80G hard drive two weeks ago. Apple delayed my order until the middle of Feb (ship date). I am happy with the new release same price (considering upgrades and educational discount), more memory, more HDD, and faster Processor. The icing on the cake would have been a Tiger release as well, but I will take it none the less.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by wunderkind:
The same question I have. Given that still there's no backlit keyboard on the 12", a much better screen than in rev. A-C will be a good reason to upgrade.

I would get rid of my 1.3 ghz 12" powerbook in a heartbeat for a new 1.5 ghz g4 12" powerbook IF Apple would put a decent screen on it that had a better angle of view/colors/brightness.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by tooki:
See why I put exactly zero stock in rumors?

tooki

You're an inspiration to us all.

i think i'm going to get one of these things. my ibook just blew its logic board (4th time) and i think i'm just going to sell it once it gets back.

[stevesnj]

Cool no G5 keepin my rev. a 17" until the G5 comes out...still owe on this sucker

[osxisfun]

>See why I put exactly zero stock in rumors?


you mean like $499 macs?

[tooki]

I didn't say they were never right. My point is that the signal-to-noise ratio is so low as to not merit tons of my time or thought.

tooki

[John123]

Originally posted by tooki:
Maybe that's because most of the rumors are simply wish-lists, passed off as some sort of fact. See why I put exactly zero stock in rumors?

So instead of saying how the updated PowerBooks didn't "live up to" the hype, say the truth: the rumors didn't align with reality.

tooki

Respectfully, Tooki, I disagree on several levels.

(1) When I said "rumors," I really meant ThinkSecret. I should have stated that in my original post. For a rumors site, their track record is surprisingly good. Given Apple's legal actions against them, it would seem that Apple concurs with my assessment. My disappointment in this new lineup is that ThinkSecret got the drive capacity and video RAM components of the high-end 15" wrong when they, traditionally, get nearly everything right.

(2) Even looking at other rumors sites with lesser accuracy, I still wouldn't put "zero stock" in them. Are some of them pure conjecture? Sure. MOSR comes to mind. But even conjecture will hit the mark sometimes because it will fall into line with common sense and the natural evolution of progress. And more to the point, while necessity may be the mother of invention in many things, conjecture can be the mother of innovation in feature-laden things like this. This is, I guess, a mindset difference between us: I see an intrinsic value in those kinds of sites, even though some people put too much stock in them and try to treat them equivalently to news sites when they clearly are not.

(3) On the issue of "living up to" the hype, that's fine -- you can say it that way if you wish. Both your statement and mine are true -- neither one is false. But it still doesn't change the fact that this is a pretty sad update. It's been 287 days since the last round of PowerBooks were introduced, and that's an awfully long time in the realm of technology. Let's think about what we got here: an 11% boost in processor speed (and that's just measured in raw cycles -- actual performance will be less), no change in graphics card even though better models are out there, no change in resolution, and a few gimmicks. Frankly, the nicest thing about these new machines is the conversion to 5400rpm drives across the board, which helps with OS X.

In short, I didn't expect a PowerBook G5 or a dual-core G4 or anything like that. What I did expect (or, more properly, hope for) was a revision to Apple's portable lineup that acknowledged their deficiency in pure processor performance and attempted to make up for that gap with something more than a small price cut and some gimmick features.

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by brutal:


http://www.apple.com

Nice, but nothing really new, only BT 2.0.
I have the same scrolling trackpad as well on the revision A, you just have to get to use it right.
P.S. Never really use a trackpad, only sometimes.

[cpac]

if I can save up the cash, these might be my first upgrade since my Rev. A TiBook 500.

I try to not let comparable models get much more than three times as fast before I upgrade - and at this price point/feature set things look pretty good.

Also, as I'm sure the rev a G5 powerbook will take a few revisions to get entirely right. (so figure rev a wont be out until MWSF 2006..., rev b another year or so after that...)

[StiZeven]

Not too bad of an update, though a better GPU could have been used as they are widely available. Or, maybe using a 256MB version of the MR9700 on the 17" and a BTO option on the 15" and finally bringing the 12" up to a better GPU.

I was also hoping they'd finally use nicer LCD panels (especially those glossy, well saturated ones used by all the big OEMs). I'd also love an OPTION to up the resolution to WSXGA (not the Squinty WUXGA). 100 (or less) DPI is not doing it for me anymore.

However, the biggest issue (for me) doesn't look like it was addressed - and that's battery life. I think the batteries in this revision have the same capacity as the previous models which were clocked lower so I am assuming battery life on the 15" will be even worse.

I am very glad Apple finally incorporated Touchpad Scrolling. But, I am not sure I understand - how is Apple's touchpad 'Scroll' feature any different (or better) than the scroll feature used (for ages) on most PC notebooks? I've been using horizontal and vertical scrolling for years.

[Voch]

I'm still wanting a 12" model of some kind (PowerBook or, more likely, iBook) as my next upgrade but I'm still holding out for gigabit ethernet (okay...that's not my only reason for holding out, but it's something I don't want to give up...my TiBook has spoiled me with super-high-speed file transfers to and from my gigabit-equipped PC ).

Voch

[osxisfun]

>My point is that the signal-to-noise ratio is so low as to not merit tons of my time or thought

Really? Think secret's signal to noise ratio is bad? They were right about nearly everything over the last year or so and they were right on everything this year.

Not a bad signal to noise ratio at all.....

You should be more specific in your over generalizing in the future.

[wunderkind]

Originally posted by StiZeven:
I think the batteries in this revision have the same capacity as the previous models which were clocked lower so I am assuming battery life on the 15" will be even worse.

Exactly the same capacity as before. One more reason not to upgrade to 15". I am so much used to 3+ h. of battery life.

[Drakino]

Originally posted by John123:
no change in graphics card even though better models are out there,

What better models? There are higher model numbers sure, but lets look at the Mobility Radeon 9700 as an example. In the same product line of AGP compatible mobile solutions, you have the Mobile Radeon 9800. You know what the difference is? The 9800 requires a dedicated cooling system and sucks power like crazy. It is a video card built for the new gaming portable segment emerging on the PC side, a segment Apple is not in. If you want a 2 inch thnk 3 fans always on Powerbook, then you can have the Mobility Radeon 9800 in it.

Beyond that, you have the x series Mobility chips. x300, x700 and x800. All are PCI-Express solutions only for the mobile market. Until Apple gets PCI-Express in their chipsets, these won't be in any Apple product. The x300 is slower then the 9700, the x700 is a tad faster, and the x800 is yet another gaming portable card only.

Now the 12 inch Powerbook could use a boost away from the GeForce Go 5200. Why the Mobility 9600 or 9700 isn't used in the 12 inch is beyond me.

[dphotos.org]

mine have just arrived a week ago ... with the hard drive and vram options... i've also have 1gb of ram...
well... it's the rule... i'm pleased with mine, it's just that i've missed the revision... anyway i'll be pleased with it..this bump of power is not that relevant to have regrets.

[JKT]

Originally posted by StiZeven:
I am very glad Apple finally incorporated Touchpad Scrolling. But, I am not sure I understand - how is Apple's touchpad 'Scroll' feature any different (or better) than the scroll feature used (for ages) on most PC notebooks? I've been using horizontal and vertical scrolling for years.

From what I can gather, the entire trackpad acts as a scrolling area - instead of just a dedicated area on the side/bottom. To activate scrolling over normal mouse movement you drag two fingers instead of one. This appears to be a hardware adaptation rather than just a software one.

[fisherKing]

reading thru the above posts (and my own earlier post)...

although i'm disappointed to not see a backlit keyboard in the 12", i also wonder if the screen in better. THAT would add a great value to this machine.

(am tired of working alongside my girlfriend, whose 15" aluBook screen far outshines mine... )

[John123]

Originally posted by Drakino:
What better models? There are higher model numbers sure, but lets look at the Mobility Radeon 9700 as an example. In the same product line of AGP compatible mobile solutions, you have the Mobile Radeon 9800. You know what the difference is? The 9800 requires a dedicated cooling system and sucks power like crazy. It is a video card built for the new gaming portable segment emerging on the PC side, a segment Apple is not in. If you want a 2 inch thnk 3 fans always on Powerbook, then you can have the Mobility Radeon 9800 in it.

Beyond that, you have the x series Mobility chips. x300, x700 and x800. All are PCI-Express solutions only for the mobile market. Until Apple gets PCI-Express in their chipsets, these won't be in any Apple product. The x300 is slower then the 9700, the x700 is a tad faster, and the x800 is yet another gaming portable card only.

Now the 12 inch Powerbook could use a boost away from the GeForce Go 5200. Why the Mobility 9600 or 9700 isn't used in the 12 inch is beyond me.

Yes, you named both of the cards/lines I was referring to. You named technical challenges to the implementation of either the 9800 or the x700/x800, but it's a cooling challenge on the former and an architecture challenge on the latter that prevents them from being added. Simply put, it's a decision that I wish they'd not made.

[MORT A POTTY]

one more reason to keep my Pismo around (provided I can get a processor put in there soon) I get 5 hours of battery life

[nica]

167MHz system bus Apple's killing me! They don't want me to upgrade.