[nikoz1200]

Being raised in a Windoze world, I have become used to doing a clean install of XP on brand new computers over the last few years to get rid of all the extra free crapware that comes pre-installed.

Should I do this with my new powerbook also? I just got it yesterday, and it is awesome, but 15 gigs are already used up somewhere. Is that normal, or is there a bunch of stuff installed that I can do without? Do most of you do clean installs?

Nick

[RonnieoftheRose]

15GBs is about right with all the software that is included. Remember, there are a lot of sample video and audio files that come with iLife. If anything, delete the demo software.

The clean install theory is a myth. The fresh images are installed from the same installer before they leave the factory.

[robby818]

A lot of space is taken up by two things that you may not need--non english language support files and printer drivers. (i also leave other stuff off too- like IE.) Do a clean install and choose not to install those two things and you will free up a lot of space. BUT in order to have these options available to you, I believe you need the OS X Panther disks, not just the restore disks.

[reemas]

if you somewhat know what youre doing, do a clean install. i always do including on my new powerbooks.

with just about every app installed my entire installation is around 8 GBs. not counting 3rd party apps.

plus i can remove crap like quickbooks NUE, the GB's worth of useless language files!! i won't need gujrati, swahili, and hebrew ever...

etc etc...

[johnpop]

Do the two dvd's they give you contain a plain old Panther install? If not that blows

[nikoz1200]

yup. one dvd is os9, the other os 10.3. i am doing the clean install as we speak. pretty easy actually.

the quickbooks nue... do you have to pay for it after 10 uses, or is registration free? id like to give it a shot, but not for moe money.

nick

[Simon]

On a Mac you don't reinstall because of spyware or other PC problems. You reinstall because you want a custom install which fits your needs (languages, printers, third-party stuff, etc.) and doesn't include more or less than exactly what you need.

[maxintosh]

Also bear in mind that if you have an 80 GB hard drive, you will only have about 74 available after formatting.

[bighead]

I noticed that after a zero/install of 10.3.8, my Xbench performance went up 15 points. I pulled the HD from my 1.5, put in in my 1.67 and ran Xbench. The score was actually slower in the 1.67. After the zero/install, it went from 128 in the original test to 144 on the clean OS install on the 1.67.

I also do clean installs to get rid of iDVD, iMovie, GarageBand, all of the extra fonts and junk, as well as run Monolingual to get rid of the extra languages. I find that I can get my boot partition lean and mean around 4.5 GB with all apps installed when I cut all the extraneous nonsense.

I never use a stock install, but most people are not as neurotic as myself.

[ricacu]

how much does os takes? i didnt do a clean install on my pb, but when new it said 64 or so gb's left on my 80 gb hd.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by bighead:
I noticed that after a zero/install of 10.3.8, my Xbench performance went up 15 points.

I did a clean install of my 12" when I got it and Xbenched it against the factory installation and the result was exactly the same - 132 (10.3.7)

[asxless]

Last week I reformatted and custom installed OSX on my new 15" PowerBook for many of the same reasons previously posted -- to exclude extra languages, 3rd party software I don't need or care to use ( e.g. Microsoft Office demo-ware), etc. And OBTW to include X11 and the developer tools.

But at the risk of starting yet another debate on partitioning...
I ALWAYS reformat and partition a new _PowerBook_ drive into at least 3 partitions -- OS & Apps, User Data and "Scratch". Most of the time, I use the 'scratch' partition for stuff that I could just as easily burn to DVD but prefer to keep 'online' for easy/quick access. But when a new OS is released (e.g. Tiger) I use the 'scratch' partition to install the new OS and my 3rd party apps., drivers etc. That way I can boot the PowerBook into either the old (read, stable and tested with _all_ my 3rd party apps) or the new OS until I confirm that all my 3rd party apps, hardware drivers, etc. work great with the new OS. Since all my User Data is on a separate partition I can mount it with either OS. FWIW I use the transition between OS versions to clean house and pare down the bloat of preferences etc. that accumulates when trying our various apps etc.

-- asxless in iLand

[bighead]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
I did a clean install of my 12" when I got it and Xbenched it against the factory installation and the result was exactly the same - 132 (10.3.7)

I should have been more clear. It was the previously used OS from my 1.5 that was a poor showing in Xbench, not the factory install on the 1.67 that was bad. I moved the hard disk from one machine to the other, without doing a clean install of OS X.

[shabbasuraj]

So can anyone confirm that you can avoid the install of extra language files only with the original Panther disks?

[Randman]

One advantage on a clean install is that you can customize the installation, removing stuff you don't need or want (such as all of the printer packs, languages, etc).

[ero2]

Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
So can anyone confirm that you can avoid the install of extra language files only with the original Panther disks?

I just run delocalizer when everything I want is installed, it removes everything but english, after a clean install with allmy programs I usually save about 950mbs.

[shabbasuraj]

Originally posted by ero2:
I just run delocalizer when everything I want is installed, it removes everything but english, after a clean install with allmy programs I usually save about 950mbs.

ok

[Agent69]

I always do a clean install, just so I can be certain of what is on the hard drive.

I think that it also handy to know for sure that you can reinstall. No one wants to have a hard disk crash and then find out that their install disk has a problem.

[faithfulanchor]

how would someone go about doing one of these clean installs on a brand new powerbook?

[asxless]

Originally posted by faithfulanchor:
how would someone go about doing one of these clean installs on a brand new powerbook?

You do this by booting from the Restore DVD. When you get to the first splash screen you select Disk Utility from the Menu bar. This give you the option to simply 'erase' the existing single partition or to partition the drive as you like, prior to installing the OS. Of course reinstalling the OS then allows you to do a custom install selecting which OS components (e.g. X11) and which 3rd party software you want.

-- asxless in iLand

[markponcelet]

Originally posted by ero2:
I just run delocalizer when everything I want is installed, it removes everything but english, after a clean install with allmy programs I usually save about 950mbs.

Does doing this affect how web pages in other languages are displayed? I don't need any extra localizations, but I guess I'd prefer it if pages written in Russian show up with the right characters rather than a bunch of squares.

[waterbuck]

Hi -
Like the bove posting, I am interested in what are key things everyone would ordinarily retain in a custom install. I understand we all differ somewhat, i.e. I'll play with Garageband and keep it, others won't, but there must be some "don't miss" items. Like above, I don't need languages, but I guess I do want characters to look right on web pages, even if I happen to be looking however briefly at a Russian web page.

Also, if you do 2 partitions or 3 partitions on a 100 GB disk, what is likely to be the right size? My experience is that software will only run if it is on the "boot" partition (sound right?) and as that software bloats up over the next few years, I don't want to find I had too small a partition for my OS and software.

Also, are there applications that really could be on the partition that does not have the OS?

Thanks..
waterbuck..

[Randman]

Don't partition. There's no need for it.

[faithfulanchor]

OK, I think I'm going to do this, because I really don't want most of the 3rd party software...
But before I do, are there ANY risks associated, that i need to know about?

[shabbasuraj]

Do it.

You should have no probs..

Let us know how it goes.

[Randman]

Just repair permissions after you do all the software updates.

[faithfulanchor]

Well, first of all, I have to wait on my powerbook to get here (which is sucking harder by the day, because it hasn't even shipped yet.)

But then I will do it.

Sorry if this is a completely ignorant question, but this is my first mac...

What do you mean by repair permissions?

[Randman]

Repairing permissions is basically getting the unix side of the OSX aligned. You can do a search on it for much more information but it is something you should do from time to time to keep everything running smooth.

In Disk Utility, you have options to reformat, repair permissions, check the hard drive status, etc.

[faithfulanchor]

are there any other maintenence chores (like repairing permissions) that should be done regularly?

[Simon]

Originally posted by faithfulanchor:
are there any other maintenence chores (like repairing permissions) that should be done regularly?

---> BACKUP <---
Even if the system is rock stable, hardware can still break or be broken, and users can still make mistakes. Do not underestimate the value of a complete and up to date backup. Thanks to inexpensive large and fast FireWire HDDs, this task has become very easy to accomplish.

And, If the PowerBook isn't running during the night (if it's off or sleeping), you should run the system's maintenance routines manually. First read about it in the shell:
% man periodic
Once you've read that, you can run them in a normal shell with root permissions (which they require) like this
% sudo periodic daily
% sudo periodic weekly
% sudo periodic monthly
You'll be prompted for your admin password. Enter it and be patient - it could take anywhere from seconds to minutes depending on when it was last performed.

To find out when these tasks last ran, you can try
% ls -l /var/log/ | grep '.out'

Good luck and welcome to Macintosh.

[ibookuser2]

Originally posted by markponcelet:
Does doing this affect how web pages in other languages are displayed? I don't need any extra localizations, but I guess I'd prefer it if pages written in Russian show up with the right characters rather than a bunch of squares.

No. As long as you have the proper fonts installed, text in other languages will still show up. The localization files are just for if you switch the main language on your computer, the menus, buttons, etc. will show in that language. If you don't intend to use your computer with the interface set to a different language, you don't need them.

Your Korean spam will still show in Korean text, though

[shabbasuraj]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Simon:
[B]---> BACKUP <---



Make use of that FireWire port(s)...

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by nikoz1200:
Being raised in a Windoze world, I have become used to doing a clean install of XP on brand new computers over the last few years to get rid of all the extra free crapware that comes pre-installed.

Should I do this with my new powerbook also? I just got it yesterday, and it is awesome, but 15 gigs are already used up somewhere. Is that normal, or is there a bunch of stuff installed that I can do without? Do most of you do clean installs?

Nick

I recommend fresh install on new powerbooks.

With new hardware new drivers come and different preference files are necessary. The old installation of your old powerbook can be unstable or support your hardware suboptimal.

[Randman]

While (as this thread shows) it's arguable if it's needed, it's worth the little bit of extra time in making sure. If you do the re-install right away, you're not going to lose anything but an hour or so of time. Worth it, imo, to get everything up and running proper with little chance for something to be hosed, something that could possibly force a re-install at a later time when it will have more of an impact on your operations.

[Simon]

This might be the right time to ask: Does the OS X installer install an identical version of OS X on every Mac, or does the install depend on the model of Mac it's being used on? Of course newer hardware sometimes needs newer OS X builds, but apart from that, will the OS X (just the system, not the additional third-party apps and demos) on an iBook be identical to the OS X on a Power Mac?

I remember the OS 9 installer installed different extensions and 'enablers' on different hardware which made it a pain to move an install from one machine to another. I'd hope OS X installs are identical and hardware related pieces of the OS are just kernel extensions that either get loaded if needed or not. That would make it a lot easier to take a system from one Mac to boot another, etc. But I'm not sure. Anyone know for sure?

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by Simon:
I'd hope OS X installs are identical and hardware related pieces of the OS are just kernel extensions that either get loaded if needed or not. That would make it a lot easier to take a system from one Mac to boot another, etc. But I'm not sure. Anyone know for sure?

I don't know for sure.
But I tried to move my TiBook/500Mhz installation to a Pismo once. It worked somehow but was unstable.
The same experience with TiBook to AlBook.
I had to do a clean reinstall on both machines. Thats where my recommendation came from.

If the installed OS X version does not have the necessary drivers on board it won't work, even if the kernel should load the drivers dynamically (what the osx microkernel indeed does).

[Xanadu]

With a clean install of Panther you can avoid installing all the stuff that is put on which you may not need, such as iDVD and garageband etc (iLife stuff). However, if you want to install these at a later date you will have to use program such as
D.B.Cooper (which can be found on versiontracker)
this will allow you to effectively rip the disk images for the various extra programs off of the install DVD's (the program .dmg's cannot be seen just by inserting the restore DVD into the DVD drive as Apple 'hides' them)

[Simon]

Originally posted by Xanadu:
However, if you want to install these at a later date you will have to use program such as
D.B.Cooper (which can be found on versiontracker)
this will allow you to effectively rip the disk images for the various extra programs off of the install DVD's (the program .dmg's cannot be seen just by inserting the restore DVD into the DVD drive as Apple 'hides' them)

Well, they just hide them by using a period before the directory name. No big deal. Just do this

• put in the Panther DVD
• in the shell type: cd /Volumes/Panther/.images
• type: ls -l
• check what's available
• type for example: open ./AppleWorks.dmg
• the dmg will show up on the desktop, open it, run the installer
• enjoy

[Agent69]

Originally posted by Randman:
Don't partition. There's no need for it.

I always partition but it is really just due to the fact that I prefer to keep my data separated. But there is no benefit otherwise.

[crazeazn]

Originally posted by Simon:
---> BACKUP <---
Even if the system is rock stable, hardware can still break or be broken, and users can still make mistakes. Do not underestimate the value of a complete and up to date backup. Thanks to inexpensive large and fast FireWire HDDs, this task has become very easy to accomplish.

And, If the PowerBook isn't running during the night (if it's off or sleeping), you should run the system's maintenance routines manually. First read about it in the shell:
% man periodic
Once you've read that, you can run them in a normal shell with root permissions (which they require) like this
% sudo periodic daily
% sudo periodic weekly
% sudo periodic monthly
You'll be prompted for your admin password. Enter it and be patient - it could take anywhere from seconds to minutes depending on when it was last performed.

To find out when these tasks last ran, you can try
% ls -l /var/log/ | grep '.out'

Good luck and welcome to Macintosh.

will cocktail run these mantenience rountines?

[jonnyc]

i'm tempted to try this.

i've had my new pb since last thursday, so i've installed a fair few things, but as i figure i'll only add more stuff maybe it might be worth doing tonight.

so what should i do to backup first to an external hd?

i'm guessing copy;

my user folder (all docs etc)
my applications folder (should make it VERY easy to reinstall all the current apps?)
the preferences folder (all the data for my curent apps)

does that sound right?

[asxless]

Originally posted by jonnyc:
i'm tempted to try this.

i've had my new pb since last thursday, so i've installed a fair few things, but as i figure i'll only add more stuff maybe it might be worth doing tonight.

so what should i do to backup first to an external hd?

i'm guessing copy;

my user folder (all docs etc)
my applications folder (should make it VERY easy to reinstall all the current apps?)
the preferences folder (all the data for my curent apps)

does that sound right?

If you have the space on the external HD you can use Disk Utility to clone your PowerBook's drive onto the external FireWire drive. You do this by "restoring" your PowerBooks HD onto the FireWire HD. Then you can boot from the clone on the FireWire drive (or the DVD that came with your PowerBook) to run Disk Utilty again to partition your PowerBook's drive. At that point you have full working copy of your existing PowerBooks drive. So you can copy over what ever you like

-- asxless in iLand

[ero2]

Originally posted by Xanadu:
With a clean install of Panther you can avoid installing all the stuff that is put on which you may not need, such as iDVD and garageband etc (iLife stuff). However, if you want to install these at a later date you will have to use program such as
D.B.Cooper (which can be found on versiontracker)
this will allow you to effectively rip the disk images for the various extra programs off of the install DVD's (the program .dmg's cannot be seen just by inserting the restore DVD into the DVD drive as Apple 'hides' them)

I just tried DB COOPER on my new PB, because I did not do a fresh install but am going to now, and when I drag the OSX DVD onto it, it says

There were no directories found on this disk. Either this was not a valid Mac OS X restore disk, or there are no hidden files on this disk.

Any thoughts as to why it is not working?

[ero2]

Originally posted by Simon:
Well, they just hide them by using a period before the directory name. No big deal. Just do this

• put in the Panther DVD
• in the shell type: cd /Volumes/Panther/.images
• type: ls -l
• check what's available
• type for example: open ./AppleWorks.dmg
• the dmg will show up on the desktop, open it, run the installer
• enjoy

this does not seem to be working either

Also, is there a certain number of times you can write zeros and reinstall the drive? I like to do it every couple months to make sure everything is running optimally, is this a bad idea?

[jonnyc]

Originally posted by asxless:
If you have the space on the external HD you can use Disk Utility to clone your PowerBook's drive onto the external FireWire drive. You do this by "restoring" your PowerBooks HD onto the FireWire HD. Then you can boot from the clone on the FireWire drive (or the DVD that came with your PowerBook) to run Disk Utilty again to partition your PowerBook's drive. At that point you have full working copy of your existing PowerBooks drive. So you can copy over what ever you like

-- asxless in iLand

sounds poifect! oi tink i'll do eet.

[jonnyc]

p.s. the two dvds that come with the computer are full panther and os9 discs i assume? i know there was a lot of furore a few years ago in the windows world of vendors not actually including real windows cds with their comps.

almost suicidal really!

[asxless]

Come on folks this is not brain surgery

The OS X Install Disc 1 DVD that came with my new PowerBook 15" 1.67Mhz SuperDrive has two aliases to installers...
* Install Mac OS X and Bundled Software
* Install Bundled Software Only

If you chose the first one, you can do a custom install that includes/excludes specific bundled software. So you can install only the OS, if you deselect all of the bundled software.

If you chose the second one, you can do a custom install selecting only the bundled software you want.

FWIW it looks like Apple has done a better job of 'hiding' the install packages than usual. Many of them are in the Mac OS X Install Disc 1 -- System/Installation/Packages but some are one level deeper in System/Installation/Packages/.packages

-- asxless in iland

[J_Anderton]

Just ordered a new 12" Powerbook, but it won't be shipping until "On or Before 2/25."

This is what I want to know...I do plan on doing a clean install. I don't need iMovie, iDVD, or Garage Band. What I want to know is this...

Receive package
Open pacakge
Look at Powerbook box
Gaze at it for a moment
Open it up

Put in OS X DVD right away and do a clean install without evening turning it on first or boot up first, do the setup, THEN put the OS X DVD and do a clean install?

[iREZ]

How are you going to put in a CD without turning it on first?

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by ero2:

Also, is there a certain number of times you can write zeros and reinstall the drive? I like to do it every couple months to make sure everything is running optimally, is this a bad idea?

This really shows how windows experience can wash your brain !

Sorry for the joke on your expenses.
OS X (and unix in general) has well done maintenance procedures. There is no need for the jobs you mentioned. Everything is kept optimal on a daily bases without your interaction.
Just do something that you should avoid with winddows boxes: Don't switch off your machine over night or reschedule the cron jobs (or use macjanitor, if you feel that you have to use your hands).